[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

1. As long as you can control a decision then you are sovereign. So in this case, if we opted to leave the EU that would be a "sovereign" decision. On the other hand should we wish to re-join the EU we would not be able to do so on our own; all of the current 27 EU nations would need to agree to our re-joining, so we would not be "sovereign" over that decision. We could decide we wanted to re-join, but be told no, but we can decide to leave and no one (outside the UK) can prevent that. We have sovereignty.

2. Your every statement makes it crystal clear.

I take it you have given up

[jim mk2]

I take it you have given up

I take it you can't read

[yoda]

I take it you can't read

It's obvious you can't or wont.

You are so indoctrinated in your left wing views you cannot see any other way, whereas I have a completely open mind politically. As a result it is easy to criticize the charlatans that supposedly run not only this country but others

[jim mk2]

It's obvious you can't or wont

Ditto

[yoda]

It's obvious you can't or wont.

You are so indoctrinated in your left wing views you cannot see any other way, whereas I have a completely open mind politically. As a result it is easy to criticize the charlatans that supposedly run not only this country but others

[jim mk2]

It's obvious you can't or wont.

You are so indoctrinated in your left wing views you cannot see any other way, whereas I have a completely open mind politically. As a result it is easy to criticize the charlatans that supposedly run not only this country but others

[yoda]

Laugh all you want Jim but you still have not provided any evidence for your assumptions

[jim mk2]

No assumptions. Your every statement makes it crystal clear.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Jim has previously said Corbyn is too far right. So basically if you haven't venomously insulted the Tories then your political stance is suspect, and if you don't insult them at all its case closed, you're a right wing supporter of the rich.

Back on Europe, I see the frequency of deadly machete attacks in Bangladesh has now risen to daily. All the victims have in common is they're not ultra-conservative Muslims. There's a huge wave of darkness out there sweeping across countries and historical links to terror or proximity to terror doesn't seem to matter. If enough Muslims live in a country, a hardline minority will violently subjugate (usually successfully) those who prefer a secular lifestyle.

The struggle to come here is one of mass cultural conversion to western values before the momentum of intolerant religious hysteria starts flexing its muscles in this country. And read any article on what is happening to Jews here if you think that's an exaggeration. Low-level cultural extremism has already got a foothold in this country and without control of our borders and severe curbs on immigration, it will spread faster than it can be educated away. We definitely need to get out.

[yoda]

No assumptions. Your every statement makes it crystal clear.

Just because you keep repeating yourself it isn't going to become fact,

Is your signature just a throw away sound bite ?

[jim mk2]

Your polItical comments have always been skewed one way. That's your prerogative because mine are too - but don't try to deny it.

Jim has previously said Corbyn is too far right. So basically if you haven't venomously insulted the Tories then your political stance is suspect, and if you don't insult them at all its case closed, you're a right wing supporter of the rich.

Back on Europe, I see the frequency of deadly machete attacks in Bangladesh has now risen to daily. All the victims have in common is they're not ultra-conservative Muslims. There's a huge wave of darkness out there sweeping across countries and historical links to terror or proximity to terror doesn't seem to matter. If enough Muslims live in a country, a hardline minority will violently subjugate (usually successfully) those who prefer a secular lifestyle.

The struggle to come here is one of mass cultural conversion to western values before the momentum of intolerant religious hysteria starts flexing its muscles in this country. And read any article on what is happening to Jews here if you think that's an exaggeration. Low-level cultural extremism has already got a foothold in this country and without control of our borders and severe curbs on immigration, it will spread faster than it can be educated away. We definitely need to get out.

If in doubt play the immigration card. Gove was at it again today. Signs of desperation from the Brexit camp.

[yoda]

Your polItical comments have always been skewed one way. That's your prerogative because mine are too - but don't try to deny it.

If in doubt play the immigration card. Gove was at it again today. Signs of desperation from the Brexit camp.

So was May, is there not some truth in it though ?

[jim mk2]

May was saying we should withdraw from the ECHR - which has nothing to with the EU.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If in doubt play the immigration card. Gove was at it again today. Signs of desperation from the Brexit camp.

Fantastically constructed response, I'm impressed you managed to put together so much evidence and reasoning in just over a minute.

Why would I need to play a card? I'm not campaigning. And I've said from the start that this is my primary concern regarding the exit vote, just as I'd imagine its many other peoples'.

I expect the reason the top brass in the Leave campaign have sidelined it as an argument so far is that they're scared of the left-wing mafia. You and your ilk have accomplished an impressive and decidedly fascist silencing of the freedom to properly debate immigration, through liberal use of the racist tag and generally indoctrinating in people the link of concern about immigration = horrible person.

You've won that one in terms of what people can say, but you haven't won it yet in terms of what they can think. So don't be surprised if, as in the general election, it turns out to be something people care a lot about.

[yoda]

May was saying we should withdraw from the ECHR - which has nothing to with the EU.

She also made reference to immigration

"Mrs May admitted that being in the EU made it harder to control the "volume of immigration". But she said the UK was able to control its border by blocking entry to terrorists."

another little snippet she also came out with about sovereignty

"In what she said was an analysis of "the risks and opportunities" of EU membership rather than an attack on Leave campaigners, she said the post-war order had seen the UK and other countries "cede sovereignty in a controlled way" by co-operating to prevent a greater loss of sovereignty through military conflict or economic decline."

She also had a dig at the EU court "However, she called for major changes to the way the UK did business in the EU, including reducing the power of the European Parliament and the European Court of Justice."

[jim mk2]

Fantastically constructed response, I'm impressed you managed to put together so much evidence and reasoning in just over a minute.

Why would I need to play a card? I'm not campaigning. And I've said from the start that this is my primary concern regarding the exit vote, just as I'd imagine its many other peoples'.

I expect the reason the top brass in the Leave campaign have sidelined it as an argument so far is that they're scared of the left-wing mafia. You and your ilk have accomplished an impressive and decidedly fascist silencing of the freedom to properly debate immigration, through liberal use of the racist tag and generally indoctrinating in people the link of concern about immigration = horrible person.

You've won that one in terms of what people can say, but you haven't won it yet in terms of what they can think. So don't be surprised if, as in the general election, it turns out to be something people care a lot about.

Brilliant response containing the usual "left-wing mafia" and "fascist" cliches . Can you post anything original without using silly labels?

I'd also love to know how the "left-wing mafia" (who?) have managed to silence the debate because to judge from the "left-wing" Sun, Mail and Times this week they are shouting from the rooftops about their stance on the subject. Or perhaps it's the "left wing" BBC, you know that organisation stuffed to the gunnels with political journalists connected with this country's right wing party.

The problem for the Leave camp is it has already lost the geopoltical and economic arguments for staying in the EU (witness the desperation of Gove citing the example of Albania as an economic model) and is forced to run its campaign as a single-issue crusade against immigration. I look forward to more of your swivel-eyed rants against the evils of immigrants and Muslims in general in due course.

[yoda]

Brilliant response containing the usual "left-wing mafia" and "fascist" cliches . Can you post anything original without using silly labels?

I'd also love to know how the "left-wing mafia" (who?) have managed to silence the debate because to judge from the "left-wing" Sun, Mail and Times this week they are shouting from the rooftops about their stance on the subject. Or perhaps it's the "left wing" BBC, you know that organisation stuffed to the gunnels with political journalists connected with this country's right wing party.

The problem for the Leave camp is it has already lost the geopoltical and economic arguments for staying in the EU (witness the desperation of Gove citing the example of Albania as an economic model) and is forced to run its campaign as a single-issue crusade against immigration. I look forward to more of your swivel-eyed rants against the evils of immigrants and Muslims in general in due course.

The last para is just typical of left wing rhetoric when loosing the debate.

The courts will take care of any miscreants, the issue though is how do we as a country pay for the extra people to be looked after and provided for.

I expect your answer will have something to do with tax.

[K-Hod]

There's a lot more to the EU debate than is being released into the public domain. Most people with a vote are going into this effectively blindly.

(Disclaimer- I'm not saying this applies to posters on this messageboard.)

I was talking to a mate of mine at the weekend on this very subject- he was basically saying that one of the major potential implications would be our working week of 37.5 hours is protected by the EU, he was saying that we could potentially go back to a longer week, with less holidays and a lot made to re-apply for their same jobs. On the basis of this, and many other things, I still think we should remain.

[jim mk2]

The last para is just typical of left wing rhetoric when loosing the debate.

The courts will take care of any miscreants, the issue though is how do we as a country pay for the extra people to be looked after and provided for.

I expect your answer will have something to do with tax.

Thanks for confirming your political leanings - again.

[Steve Moss]

The problem with the left is that enshrines power in government, allegedly to advance the cause of "equality" but actually for the benefit of the rich, powerful and well connected at the expense of the working man and middle income families.

The problem with the right is that enshrines power in multi-national corporations, allegedly to advance the cause of "liberty" but actually for the benefit of the rich, powerful and well connected at the expense of the working man and middle income families.

Just my view and the reason I always argue to safeguard each and every individual political liberty while reining in corporations. Don't let either party limit a person's political rights in exchange for economic benefits. The price in the end will always be far too high.

[yoda]

Thanks for confirming your political leanings - again.

Considering you used to be a jorno you don't half make wild assumptions

[jim mk2]

No assumptions - every statement you make it is crystal clear

[ABBEY]

[ABBEY]

how true is this? no idea if is or not.....theres so many questions .

[adopted scouser]

Once you've had black, you don't go back