[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[ABBEY]

With all due respect, Mike, I know for a fact that isn't true.

See ask admin

[K-Hod]

With all due respect, Mike, I know for a fact that isn't true.

Oh, here he is. After a ban, with a dig straight away. I've explained myself very clearly to you on the matter you're referring to already.

[K-Hod]

With all due respect, Mike, I know for a fact that isn't true.

No, Amarillo, that isn't what happened and you know it.

But, as you've made the contents of PMs public, I've nothing to hide in any of those you're referring to if it came down to it and have no issue with anything I've said in them either.

[philipl]

The truth and reality in Scotland is 62% of the population and all 32 districts voted remain.

The truth and reality in Scotland is the SNP has overwhelmingly won the last three elections up there all but wiping out all three major parties elsewhere in the UK (UKIP scarcely exists).

The truth and reality is that in the last twenty years, Scotland's politics have morphed from a microcosm of the UK's to something as different as Northern Ireland's.

[Al]

The truth is that the population of Scotland is a minority in Britain and cannot dictate to the rest unless it becomes independent and that would be an economic disaster for the Scots.

[Baz]

Nobody got any comments about the NHS having to make a co-ordinated set of cut-backs due to underfunding from the Tory government?

Wheres that £350m a week that was promised?

[Husky]

Brexit is good. Massive tourism boost, average shop gone down, GB's best ever Olympics.

The doom and gloom merchants already being shown up as the bullshitters that they truly are.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3708938/Cost-grocery-shopping-drops-Brexit-vote-no-immediate-impact.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3751062/Brexit-staycation-boom-worth-1-4-BILLION-Huge-boost-tourism-UK-pound-fell-following-vote.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/rio-2016-team-gb-second-place-confirmed-medal-table-total-china-us-mo-farah-andy-murray-a7202606.html

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Nobody got any comments about the NHS having to make a co-ordinated set of cut-backs due to underfunding from the Tory government?

Wheres that £350m a week that was promised?

The BBC had plenty to say on it. Main headline on the website for 2 days and there's nothing even concrete on it yet, may be a future plan.

In the meantime they managed to smuggle past everyone near-record immigration figures (again!) by sticking it up for a few hours as a minor article. They must be third now behind the Guardian and Independent in left-wing media sources. Appalling really that people are obliged to fund them.

[Baz]

Brexit is good. Massive tourism boost, average shop gone down, GB's best ever Olympics.

The doom and gloom merchants already being shown up as the bullshitters that they truly are.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3708938/Cost-grocery-shopping-drops-Brexit-vote-no-immediate-impact.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3751062/Brexit-staycation-boom-worth-1-4-BILLION-Huge-boost-tourism-UK-pound-fell-following-vote.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/rio-2016-team-gb-second-place-confirmed-medal-table-total-china-us-mo-farah-andy-murray-a7202606.html

Olympic medal tally is due to Brexit?

Hilarious.

The BBC had plenty to say on it. Main headline on the website for 2 days and there's nothing even concrete on it yet, may be a future plan.

In the meantime they managed to smuggle past everyone near-record immigration figures (again!) by sticking it up for a few hours as a minor article. They must be third now behind the Guardian and Independent in left-wing media sources. Appalling really that people are obliged to fund them.

Its a plan being brought forward for implementation in October.

But yes, lets ignore it and talk again about immigration.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Its a plan being brought forward for implementation in October.

But yes, lets ignore it and talk again about immigration.

Ok. My personal experiences of the NHS and that of my family have been very much a mixed bag. On the negative side I've encountered lazy, dismissive, inconsiderate and rude staff. In one instance involving a family member it basically amounted to cruelty and I wrote a letter to the hospital in question. These things are primarily a culture issue, not a money one. I've also been subject to at least one case of medical negligence that I've been assured by a solicitor friend I could have successfully claimed on (but I'm not the claiming type). On the flip side I've also encountered some truly excellent and caring staff.

However a mixed bag with some considerable low points does not enamour me to the organisation. It's not my dear, treasured NHS. It's an organisation I've paid money to all my working life in NI contributions and which I've never been particularly impressed with.

So I'm not really cut up about its woes to be honest. What, so I'm gonna get a poor service next time I use it instead of the poor service I've had in the past? Frankly the harrowing patient care scandal in the late 00s showed how badly it had lost its way and what a collosal boot up the arse it's needed. If it truly rediscovers the purpose behind its creation, to serve the public and not it's own staff, then I'm behind it being preserved in some form (which it obviously will be).

[ABBEY]

My experience of the NHS is that its absolutely amazing and its no exaggeration to say they have saved both mine and my wife's life and saved my leg and I have nothing but respect and thankfulness to the them all.(only complaint is it took to long to get my ears syringed but that's only minor)

[bellamy11]

Ok. My personal experiences of the NHS and that of my family have been very much a mixed bag. On the negative side I've encountered lazy, dismissive, inconsiderate and rude staff. In one instance involving a family member it basically amounted to cruelty and I wrote a letter to the hospital in question. These things are primarily a culture issue, not a money one. I've also been subject to at least one case of medical negligence that I've been assured by a solicitor friend I could have successfully claimed on (but I'm not the claiming type). On the flip side I've also encountered some truly excellent and caring staff.

However a mixed bag with some considerable low points does not enamour me to the organisation. It's not my dear, treasured NHS. It's an organisation I've paid money to all my working life in NI contributions and which I've never been particularly impressed with.

So I'm not really cut up about its woes to be honest. What, so I'm gonna get a poor service next time I use it instead of the poor service I've had in the past? Frankly the harrowing patient care scandal in the late 00s showed how badly it had lost its way and what a collosal boot up the arse it's needed. If it truly rediscovers the purpose behind its creation, to serve the public and not it's own staff, then I'm behind it being preserved in some form (which it obviously will be).

Living with a junior doctor I'm wondering who the staff that the NHS is serving instead of the public are. Because it's certainly not the frontline. The entire institution is hanging on by a thread.

[Mike E]

Living with a junior doctor I'm wondering who the staff that the NHS is serving instead of the public are. Because it's certainly not the frontline. The entire institution is hanging on by a thread.

My opinion is that some parts of the NHS need to be privatised (adult audiology being one, as it is extremely expensive) in order for it to remain viable. Not enough funding is being geared towards the frontline of A&E, for a start.

Taking audiology as an example, for £75/month or so (paying for aids on credit) I get better quality aids, more regular check-ups, an appt within 48hrs guaranteed (8hrs being the longest so far), and they fix issues quicker (immediately, compared to 2 weeks under the NHS).

[jim mk2]

Brexit is good. Massive tourism boost, average shop gone down, GB's best ever Olympics.

The doom and gloom merchants already being shown up as the bullshitters that they truly are.

You do realise Brexit hasn't happened yet and won't for at least 2 years (if at all)?

The BBC had plenty to say on it. Main headline on the website for 2 days and there's nothing even concrete on it yet, may be a future plan.

In the meantime they managed to smuggle past everyone near-record immigration figures (again!) by sticking it up for a few hours as a minor article. They must be third now behind the Guardian and Independent in left-wing media sources. Appalling really that people are obliged to fund them.

Immigration was lead story on the BBC home page when I looked but I would expect nothing less from such a right wing organisation.

My experience of the NHS is that its absolutely amazing and its no exaggeration to say they have saved both mine and my wife's life and saved my leg and I have nothing but respect and thankfulness to the them all.(only complaint is it took to long to get my ears syringed but that's only minor)

Me too. People who knock the NHS are usually swiivel eyed right wingers who want to see it dismantled - Jeremy Hunt for instance. The Tories hate the NHS because it is socialism par excellence.

[Mike E]

Jim, even you must acknowledge that the NHS is unaffordable in its current form?

[Stuart]

My opinion is that some parts of the NHS need to be privatised (adult audiology being one, as it is extremely expensive) in order for it to remain viable. Not enough funding is being geared towards the frontline of A&E, for a start.

Taking audiology as an example, for £75/month or so (paying for aids on credit) I get better quality aids, more regular check-ups, an appt within 48hrs guaranteed (8hrs being the longest so far), and they fix issues quicker (immediately, compared to 2 weeks under the NHS).

If it's so expensive, surely it will remain 'unviable' after privatisation? Even more so, they will probably just cease the service altogether.

Slightly different example but the outer circle bus route is being withdrawn from Blackburn causing problems for low income families who use it to travel to work. This is been deemed unviable by the private bus company and the council have now withdrawn the subsidy they have been putting in.

Maybe I'm being old-fashioned but I thought social, public enterprises like the NHS and Public Transport were supposed to be looked at at the top level and make the numbers add up as a totality. This means that certain efficient, cost effective (profitable even), well-used element subsidised the loss making ones - for the benefit of everyone, not just the lucky few.

If you start breaking down parts of it then the private companies will have a clear mandate of divide and conquer. There will always be a "most expensive" and a "least popular". It's like relegating the bottom club ever year and not promoting anyone.

But still, as long as plastic surgery remains profitable people will get their boobs jobs to boost their self-esteem whilst the 'unlucky' child with a rare but curable form of cancel will be allowed to die because the price of that treatment makes her 'unviable'.

[philipl]

Yes, single payer nationally provided health service is expensive.

Then you look at the market system of the USA where it costs twice as much to get worse health outcomes on virtually every metric.

No I EMPHATICALLY do not accept that the NHS is "unaffordable".

If life is too expensive to live and be lived, jump off Darwen Tower.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If life is too expensive to live and be lived, jump off Darwen Tower.

Wow, agree with me or die. The extremely nasty side of the left-wing in action. It's pretty scary how some of you behave when you don't receive the expected cowering to your viewpoint.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37207800

Wonder how many it'll be next year? Thank god we're out and thank god Labour haven't been in power during this whole thing.

[K-Hod]

Just had to hide two posts (sorry SKH, yours quoted the offending post and we don't edit members' content).

If we disagree with people, can we do it with civility and not encourage those that disagree to jump off local landmarks please?

[ABBEY]

Jim, even you must acknowledge that the NHS is unaffordable in its current form?

get rid of all the senior manager/managers that are not needed.

Just had to hide two posts (sorry SKH, yours quoted the offending post and we don't edit members' content).

If we disagree with people, can we do it with civility and not encourage those that disagree to jump off local landmarks please?

I beg to differ!!!

[Baz]

Jim, even you must acknowledge that the NHS is unaffordable in its current form?

It's about priorities from the government budget. They could for example, not keen cutting corporation tax, and use the extra funding to help the nhs.

It's also about driving efficiency from the top down-i.e. A centralised procurement department, regional rather than local management, a joined up approach to health and social care.

For example:

I work for a healthcare company. I know for a fact we, as a small company vs the NHS - we have much bigger discounts with the same suppliers that they do.

Regarding regional management- take Greater Manchester - there are separate NHS trusts for: central Manchester, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury, Bolton, and Wigan. Each have their own set of management trees - why not have centralised accounts, HR etc, and why employ contract managers for the same services in each area - those could easily be done at regional level - removing some of the volume of staffing. Similar in Merseyside.

Regarding NHS and Social care - it needs a far better system to cope - this government has more or less kept NHS funding at a similar level, but has made big cuts to social care - that has massively increased pressure on the NHS. The NHS 'save' money from their budget by moving people out of hospital earlier than in the past, which effectively moves the funding to local social care, who don't have the money to pay for additional district nursing etc, so the district nurses are allocated less and less time per visit, cannot complete their rounds within their working hours, and end up working for free to make sure they don't leave patients in the lurch. Eventually they get fed up and are leaving in droves. I'm working with a NHS trust who are experimenting by paying for the first 5 days care for discharged patients, and paying 50:50 with the local council to supply equipment that could help reduce admission to hospital in the first place. Early days, but so far some positive results.

[K-Hod]

get rid of all the senior manager/managers that are not needed.

I beg to differ!!!

I've never edited a post. (Bar my own) I've hidden several, obviously.

[ABBEY]

To be fair I didn't say you had .you said "WE"

[K-Hod]

To be fair I didn't say you had .you said "WE"

Ah right, yeah, fair one.

[Al]

Christ is Jim back? I thought he was banned.