[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

The EU is like the "owners" of Blackburn Rovers, smoke and mirrors

[Al]

28 member states of the EU.

2 member states are net contributors

26 member states are net beneficiaries

The net contributors are Germany and the UK

26 member nations are leeching from the two contributors.

Countries on bailouts include

France

Spain

Italy

Belgium

Holland

Ireland

Greece

Sweden

At home, reducing the numbers of Police Officers, Firemen and women, The Armed forces - all in the name of austerity (from the 5th richest economy in the world).

We pay this fiasco £350 MILLION A WEEK

Why the hell are France net beneficiaries? Common Agricultural Swindle?

The £350m a week figure isnt net though, so net its about £100m less, and that figure doesnt include funding we get back, like farming subsidies.

And austerity is a economic choice, not linked to the EU at all.

And £250mill a week is OK is it? Doesn't France get farming subsidies too. Far more than us.

[Baz]

Why the hell are France net beneficiaries? Common Agricultural Swindle?

And £250mill a week is OK is it? Doesn't France get farming subsidies too. Far more than us.

Different argument if the 250m is ok, i was just pointing out that 'leave' campaign figure is incorrect.

Don't know the cap figures, but I know it was a lot worse a few years ago, but has been re-assessed with the extra member states.

Just checked, uk farmers get £2.5 to £3bn a year in eu subsidies (differs on the exchange rate each year). Which is around £50-60m a week, so the £350 a week figure becomes more like £200. If you remove what else we get back in terms of development money etc, that figure will reduce a bit more too.

Its that net figure we need, balanced against the net costs likely to be incurred from dealing with the EU if we aren't part of it (like Norway). At that point you basically have your economic membership fee, to balance in your head against the costs - ie do you feel that the membership gains you more in other terms - trading deals, economies of scale etc.

Obviously thats only 1 part of the argument, but it is an important one.

[jim mk2]

At home, reducing the numbers of Police Officers, Firemen and women, The Armed forces - all in the name of austerity (from the 5th richest economy in the world).

We pay this fiasco £350 MILLION A WEEK

Austerity is this government's policy decision and has nothing to with the EU.

The £350m (and more) would have to be spent anyway, eg subsidising the farmers.

[yoda]

Austerity is this government's policy decision and has nothing to with the EU.

The £350m (and more) would have to be spent anyway, eg subsidising the farmers.

I don't think Greece and Spain would agree with that Jim

[jim mk2]

Greece and Spain are in the eurozone; we are in the EU. Big difference.

[Al]

Different argument if the 250m is ok, i was just pointing out that 'leave' campaign figure is incorrect.

Don't know the cap figures, but I know it was a lot worse a few years ago, but has been re-assessed with the extra member states.

Just checked, uk farmers get £2.5 to £3bn a year in eu subsidies (differs on the exchange rate each year). Which is around £50-60m a week, so the £350 a week figure becomes more like £200. If you remove what else we get back in terms of development money etc, that figure will reduce a bit more too.

Its that net figure we need, balanced against the net costs likely to be incurred from dealing with the EU if we aren't part of it (like Norway). At that point you basically have your economic membership fee, to balance in your head against the costs - ie do you feel that the membership gains you more in other terms - trading deals, economies of scale etc.

Obviously thats only 1 part of the argument, but it is an important one.

Any deficit is an argument against staying and when you add the immigration problem there is little to want to stay for. We will always trade with other countries in or out of Europe.

Greece and Spain are in the eurozone; we are in the EU. Big difference.

It's not the Eurozone we need out of. It's the EU.

[yoda]

Greece and Spain are in the eurozone; we are in the EU. Big difference.

I am sure it is a big difference, in what way though ?

The fact that we are not in the euro zone means we are one step out of the EU no ?

[jim mk2]

Surely you don't need me to explain the difference between being a member of the EU and the eurozone.

[JAL]

28 member states of the EU.

2 member states are net contributors

26 member states are net beneficiaries

The net contributors are Germany and the UK

26 member nations are leeching from the two contributors.

Countries on bailouts include

France

Spain

Italy

Belgium

Holland

Ireland

Greece

Sweden

At home, reducing the numbers of Police Officers, Firemen and women, The Armed forces - all in the name of austerity (from the 5th richest economy in the world).

We pay this fiasco £350 MILLION A WEEK

Thought the UK brokered a new deal with the EU the other year that was supposed to be better for us all.

[yoda]

Thought the UK brokered a new deal with the EU the other year that was supposed to be better for us all.

No, Cameron said he had one but he has been telling porkies, he got nowt.

Surely you don't need me to explain the difference between being a member of the EU and the eurozone.

I would like you to explain your vision of it, if that is ok.

To me it says we are only in part of the club. Not the part that will have all the power, follow the money

[JAL]

You have to ask yoda what is the elected British government doing for their positions...... extends this to all three major political party's.

The European Union isn't an excuse if you want to stop immigration just employ more border control police dont reduce their numbers.

[yoda]

You have to ask yoda what is the elected British government doing for their positions...... extends this to all three major political party's.

The European Union isn't an excuse if you want to stop immigration just employ more border control police dont reduce their numbers.

Where did I say immigration ?

pay attention JAL, I was talking MONEY

[JAL]

Where did I say immigration ?

pay attention JAL, I was talking MONEY

First line was in response second line was an add on with main question what does the British government do.

[yoda]

First line was in response second line was an add on with main question what does the British government do.

It does what Brussels tells it to do, where have you been since 1973 ?

[K-Hod]

Given that the EU is responsible for about 13% of our laws, I wouldn't say that was entirely true Yoda ;-)

[yoda]

Given that the EU is responsible for about 13% of our laws, I wouldn't say that was entirely true Yoda ;-)

Laws are different from directives, the EU preferred way of control

[JAL]

It does what Brussels tells it to do, where have you been since 1973 ?

Not buying that yoda.

Europe didn't agree to do a trans Atlantic trade deal with America that allows them to sue any European government but Cameron did negotiate this on their behalf and they weren't or aren't happy.

[jim mk2]

I would like you to explain your vision of it, if that is ok.

My vision of it is irrelevant (why do you always go off on a tangent?) but here are the facts for you.

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-eurozone-and-vs-eu/

[yoda]

My vision of it is irrelevant (why do you always go off on a tangent?) but here are the facts for you.

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-eurozone-and-vs-eu/

That article just sums up what I was saying, thanks Jim,

if you want tangents read JAL above

[jim mk2]

So why wouldn't Greece and Spain agree with it ? (your statement)

[yoda]

So why wouldn't Greece and Spain agree with it ? (your statement)

I was referring to austerity, both countries having demonstrated against it and still are.

Try to look at the issues separately and you might see a clearer picture

[jim mk2]

Having signed up to the eurozone, they're dictated to by Germany and have had no choice. Another reason to thank Gordon Brown and why we enjoy the best of both worlds by being out of the eurozone but within the EU. Our govt didn't have to impose austerity - it made an idelological and political decision to do so.

[Baz]

So the plan if we stay is effectively more of the same, as far as I can tell.

I think the government ministers who are pro-Brexit need to spell out what is the plan if we where to leave. Where exactly would the additional funds go, and in what quantities. Theres all sorts of talk about what could happen, but what is the plan. What exactly would our immigration policy be, not what could it be. Unless that is dictated as a choice, to me its a massive risk to vote for a possible picture of what may happen.

[yoda]

So the plan if we stay is effectively more of the same, as far as I can tell.

I think the government ministers who are pro-Brexit need to spell out what is the plan if we where to leave. Where exactly would the additional funds go, and in what quantities. Theres all sorts of talk about what could happen, but what is the plan. What exactly would our immigration policy be, not what could it be. Unless that is dictated as a choice, to me its a massive risk to vote for a possible picture of what may happen.

You are right it should be explained better.

We were told that unless we joined the Euro it would be disaster as well though,

instead we got the fastest growing economy in Europe.