[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Biddy]

Surely "rich man" would be the same as "Tory voter"?

[JAL]

The government is claiming people will lose between 16k to 32k of their pensions if we exit, source front page of the Times Friday 27th.

[Paul]

The government is claiming people will lose between 16k to 32k of their pensions if we exit, source front page of the Times Friday 27th.

Hopefully that would be all. Hard to know to what extent the FTSE 100 has taken account of a possible Brexit. If Brexit is costed in we should see a quick rise in the FTSE, if not it's scary.

[Amo]

Look, if anyone's having doubts about how to vote, here's a simple rule of thumb: Just do the opposite of what the Tory government wants.

[Paul]

Tories tearing lumps of each other again which only goes to prove, once more, the referendum pledge was never about anything other than winning the last general election.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36407446

Imagine Cameron out and Boris and Gove in. Scary stuff.

[Ribble Rover]

Look, if anyone's having doubts about how to vote, here's a simple rule of thumb: Just do the opposite of what the Tory government wants.

And what would you say the Tory government want you to do?

[yoda]

Tories tearing lumps of each other again which only goes to prove, once more, the referendum pledge was never about anything other than winning the last general election.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36407446

Imagine Cameron out and Boris and Gove in. Scary stuff.

Not as scary as Jeeza

[Paul]

Can't see Clarkson ever getting elected.

[yoda]

Can't see Clarkson ever getting elected.

He has more chance than Jeeza

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Not as scary as Jeeza

Not even close.

[jim mk2]

Andrew Bridgen, a prominent Tory backbencher, who told the BBC on Sunday that more than 50 MPs were ready to move against the prime minister because he is at “odds with half of our parliamentary party and probably 70 per cent of our members and activist base”.

Other senior Tories have said privately that it is likely that Eurosceptics will be able to round up the required signatures to mount a challenge. Nadine Dorries, the Mid-Bedfordshire MP and ardent critic of Mr Cameron, said she had already written to Graham Brady, chairman of the backbench 1922 committee which normally receives signatures for a leadership challenge.

Ms Dorries said Remain would need to win the vote by 60-40 for Mr Cameron to survive. Anything less and Mr Cameron would be “toast within days”.

This is all music to the ears of anyone who hates the Conservative party. Remain wins, and the Tories implode amid recriminations against Cameron and a likely challenge to his leadership; Brexit wins, and a humiliated Cameron is run out of office as the Tories implode amid a leadership battle between right wing ideologues repulsive to the general public.

[JAL]

Hopefully that would be all. Hard to know to what extent the FTSE 100 has taken account of a possible Brexit. If Brexit is costed in we should see a quick rise in the FTSE, if not it's scary.

Problem is they didn't say why the ratio is to make such a claim.

[Paul]

Discussing this hypothetically, and perhaps we can avoid the labour are unelectable line, there's an interesting scenario which could arise.

The EU referendum is not legally binding and our parliamentary sovereignty allows a future parliament to reverse decisions by a previous one. Whatever the result of the referendum it's now possible there will be a general election.

. I wonder what the position would be if another party or a section of the Conservative party ran on a ticket of ignoring the referendum result and was elected to power? First past the post in an election could well give a very different result to the straight majority of the referendum vote.

[yoda]

Would it not depend on what Cameron does if the vote went for out, (an in vote would keep the status quo but start a leadership challenge for Cameron)

Cameron says he will invoke article 52 straight away in the case of an out vote, Article 52 is an EU statute. Would it still have to be approved by our Parliament though.

When we originally joined apparently Harold Wilson realised that it was done illegaly and so called a referendum, that result was then approved by our Parliament but the electorate at that time had not been informed of the ever closer union aspect of the Common Market as it was know as then.

Looks to me like the lawyers are going to have a field day again.

[ABBEY]

Dodgy Dave v Ira coward Corbyn ... Great .

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If the remain vote wins, I don't expect that will herald some big crisis that forces Cameron out. I think political parties on the whole are quite good at following their elected leaders. Corbyn is possibly the most left-wing Labour leader there has ever been, and his appointment has compounded the problems they've had in recent elections (being too left of centre already). We'll have to see what happens but all early indications were that his appointment was catastrophic for the Labour party, and yet after a number of grumblings and a few resignations, everyone in the party pretty much seems to have gotten behind him now.

Contrast that to Cameron, who ended 13 years of Labour government and then extended his majority at the last election. Regardless of the result of the EU vote, there'll be a few grumblings and then after a bit the party will get back behind him again. The Conservatives aren't Venkys, who sacked an otherwise successful manager in Allardyce because of one heavy defeat at Man U. They'll recognise Cameron's success overall and he'll continue just as he has been. And despite disagreeing with him on the EU and considering the tactics the government has used to rig the vote as deplorable, personally I'd be happy for him to continue. All in the all he's done a good job.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Labour MPs are not behind Corbyn at all, they're just keeping quiet. They are still outraged a number of riff raff like us who joined up and voted for him instead of the other nodding dogs they wanted. Whatever you think of Jeremy it was good to stick two fingers up at the political elite with their empty promises and expenses.

Corbyn will be stabbed in the back and replaced by some Blairite nobody by 2020.

[Paul]

From January 2015

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

[philipl]

"There was a brilliant Paddy Power advert on at half time in the Champions League tonight, not sure if it would have been shown down south but it certainly was in Scotland. It was broadly based on Braveheart and the fundamental premise was that it encouraged the Scots to bet on whoever England were playing against in Euro 2016 (might even have been offering bonuses on it actually). I tried to find it on YouTube without success but even as an Englishman I found it hilarious."

This is posted in the Euros thread.

I do not expect the UK will survive a Brexit vote.

Northern Ireland and Scotland will both vote strongly to remain as their best interests are unambiguously to be within the EU.

London will vote to remain also and that clown Johnson once suggested London should secede from the rest of the UK were there to be a Brexit win. He was of course correct when he happened to be spinning in that direction as Mayor of London.

So leave on 23 June is also a vote to end the Union Jack...

[philipl]

From January 2015

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

Net immigration will rise dramatically if Brexit wins.

The idea that Britain is or ever can be in charge of its own borders is ludicrous as there are an estimated 750,000 people in the UK illegally and that has absolutely nothing to do with either being in or out the EU - the Home Office and the Police simply cannot fid them no matter how draconian the laws are being drawn.

So even if we have a England First government, the 3 million young hardworking EU citizens already here will say- the clamp down on benefits will give orgasms to Mail and Express readers but have no practical impact as hardly any of them are drawing benefits.

On the other hand, the Brits sponging on welfare elsewhere in Europe would presumably come home and start on welfare here.

The British OAPs getting by on their State Pension who can be found in every country by the Med enjoying lower cost of living and taking advantage of local welfare and health services as is their right under EU agreements would also hot foot it back to blighty and break the NHS and social services by their numbers when they get back.

So Brexit is probably a recipe for net migration to double, not decrease.

It is called the law of unintended circumstances.

[jim mk2]

It is called the law of unintended circumstances.

Unintended consequences philip. Good post though.

Cameron is about to become a victim of the law of unintended consequences. Called an EU referendum purely for political purposes before the last election to entice Ukip voters to vote Tory - and will lose his job as a result.

Cameron will be remembered as a failed PM who fell on his own sword.

[joey_big_nose]

I do not expect the UK will survive a Brexit vote.

Northern Ireland and Scotland will both vote strongly to remain as their best interests are unambiguously to be within the EU.

London will vote to remain also and that clown Johnson once suggested London should secede from the rest of the UK were there to be a Brexit win. He was of course correct when he happened to be spinning in that direction as Mayor of London.

So leave on 23 June is also a vote to end the Union Jack...

A lot of speculation abounds but I have to agree with Phillipl is one absolute certainty is Brexit will lead to Scotland leaving the UK. We might as well call it Enxit.

[ABBEY]

"There was a brilliant Paddy Power advert on at half time in the Champions League tonight, not sure if it would have been shown down south but it certainly was in Scotland. It was broadly based on Braveheart and the fundamental premise was that it encouraged the Scots to bet on whoever England were playing against in Euro 2016 (might even have been offering bonuses on it actually). I tried to find it on YouTube without success but even as an Englishman I found it hilarious."

This is posted in the Euros thread.

I do not expect the UK will survive a Brexit vote.

Northern Ireland and Scotland will both vote strongly to remain as their best interests are unambiguously to be within the EU.

London will vote to remain also and that clown Johnson once suggested London should secede from the rest of the UK were there to be a Brexit win. He was of course correct when he happened to be spinning in that direction as Mayor of London.

So leave on 23 June is also a vote to end the Union Jack...

St George's flag

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

So leave on 23 June is also a vote to end the Union Jack...

Good. Its long been an embarrassing charade. The Scots hate our guts, the Welsh hate our guts. Any UK-orientated celebration that takes place in Scotland or Wales sees a conspicuous absence of British flags being waved on the streets and a notable presence of Scottish and Welsh flags. Even the Scottish supporters of Andy Murrary would prefer to fly the St Andrews Cross at Wimbledon rather than the Union Jack. The pathetic fallacy of a united Britain is one advertised by middle class southerners who are enthusiastically delusion about how most of the rest of the union feels.

I used to buy into the charade when I was a kid, given how convincing its made to be by certain sections of the media. Then I discovered the Scots supported Germany in the '66 cup final, 21 years after we'd been at war with them. I was also recounted the tales of a friend who went to school in Scotland and was mercilessly bullied for being English. I'm friends with a few nice Scots, my favourite author is Scottish, and I've had some great holidays there. But if you expect me (and indeed anyone) English to feel bad about your artificially constructed end to the union, when it actually ended decades ago or never even properly began thanks to the attitude of Scotland and Wales, then all I can say say is hahaha.

[philipl]

Unintended consequences philip. Good post though.

Cameron is about to become a victim of the law of unintended consequences. Called an EU referendum purely for political purposes before the last election to entice Ukip voters to vote Tory - and will lose his job as a result.

Cameron will be remembered as a failed PM who fell on his own sword.

No idea why I wrote circumstances.... I know it is the law of unintended consequences.

The visceral hatred from the "Tory @#/?s" (to quote the term used by former Conservative PM Sir John Major) also known as the far right is quite spectacular- they are the sort of people who jerk off to thinking how they can scream abuse at people. Their perennial feeling of victimhood is finding the perfect outlet in this referendum campaign: Brussels, Europe, foreigners, immigrants, Cameron and Osborne are all doing them down and robbing them of Queen and country.... they are spunking bile all over the place.

A more sinister motive is that Cameron is actually being surprisingly effective in destroying every Brexit argument with hard facts and is routing the Brexiters on everything except hard emotion. I guess the Brexiters are talking about ousting Cameron in an attempt to frighten him into toning down the Remain campaign and stop giving their useless arguments and non-facts the drubbing they deserve.