[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[ABBEY]

Do in voters want tosser Cameron ?

[Stuart]

What influence do we really have in the EU at the moment?

Are we ever listened to or backed? Or is it like a musicless Eurovision when the continental Europeans back one another at our expense?

[oldjamfan1]

Surely though the answer to controlling migration is not as simple as getting Turkey to close the border. I think you have posted something on similar lines to the following. I see ahead of us, I'm unlikely to be around but my kids will be, a world in which tens of millions look at the developed world and see our riches while they face increasingly poor living standards brought on through war, terrorism, drought, health and food shortages. The constant population growth in many poorer countries fuels these huge issues. As a consequence millions will continue to look towards the West and attempt to migrate here. There will be so many the result will be overwhelming both physically and financially.

We cannot build walls of any type be it quite literally a physical wall or one which is made of political border control. The numbers fleeing poverty and war will simply overwhelm any sort of defence. If we want to avoid this the West, all of us, has to have the will to give these migrants hope in their own countries. If we don't the long term future is frightening.

I don't though see this as anything to do with culture, religion or belief. Simply people have always fled war and famine, have always migrated towards a better life. Leaving the EU is not going to change or prevent this.

I've no problem with migration of any sort and agree it must be controlled in the long term but this is a global issue not just a Britsh one. Out of Europe our influence will be reduced on this and many other issues.

If we want to control both EU and non EU migration to the UK, either economic or refugee, the conditions which create the desire to migrate have to be tackled.

An example. 25-30 years ago the predominant sources of seasonal migrant labour in Horticulture were Portugal and to a lesser extent Spain. Following those countries accession to the EU the numbers coming for seasonal work declined quite rapidly as their home economies grew. This labour force was then replaced by Eastern European labour. Creating wealth and opportunity in the home country strongly influences or "controls" migration.

From an economic view I don't believe leaving the EU will have any impact on migration. We need the labour. What I do not understand, and I don't hear leave campaigners tackling it, is the overall problem of migration. Currently Europe protects us, hundreds of thousands are kept away from our door. What are we going to do if our immediate neighbours allow migrants to cross the Channel in the way they currently cross the Mediterranean? Border controls, immigration policy, sovereignty will not stop such a flow.

If we believe in tackling migration we have to look way beyond today and work with our European neighbours. Trying to do this from outside the EU will reduce our influence. Why would the EU care about the UK? Who would the EU put first? Not us.

Best post I've seen on the issue of migration Paul, I agree completely.

[K-Hod]

Do in voters want tosser Cameron ?

I'd certainly rather him than that buffoon Boris Johnson or the contemptible Michael Gove.

[Al]

The SDP is looking for an excuse to call a second referendum - a Brexit will provide it.

Good. They cost us a bomb to keep as part of Britain. They would certainly find a huge jump in the cost of living as an independent country.

[AndyNeil]

if anybody is interested, I'm running a 24 hour poll on my Twitter account to gauge the mood of my followers. If you do vote and could RT it, that would be great. The boarder the spectrum of people voting on the poll the better...

[Paul]

Best post I've seen on the issue of migration Paul, I agree completely.

Thank you. I've wondered about stating it for weeks. Glad I did.

[tomphil]

Do in voters want tosser Cameron ?

Dithering Dave. Proven liar and U turner, spineless ponce to boot.

[Mike E]

Dithering Dave. Proven liar and U turner, spineless ponce to boot.

Not only that, he's the LEAST contemptible of the high profile Tories!

[tomphil]

I actually don't think he wants the hassle or responsibility of sorting out an EU change about so it's just easier to preach stay in. I think it's gone too far that it would take a seriously strong and clued up leader/government to either sort out a changeover or stand up for us more and take a tough stance on immigration if we stay in.

He strikes me as neither and I really don't think he wants it.

[Guest]

There are very few trustworthy materials out there on facts (perhaps because there are no facts), but this article seems to outline key criteria to help you decide which way is right for you to vote.

Money Saving Expert Martin Lewis on how to vote in the EU referendum

[oldjamfan1]

[Amo]

Wasn't going to vote because I'm above that @#/?, but after watching last night's debate I'll probably vote 'Out' just to spite Cameron. Compared to the prime minister, Farage was given hardball questions and wasn't allowed to answer half of the time. Clearly the audience was pre-selected and yet Farage still managed to hold his own.

[only2garners]

Today's edition of the i has a two page wraparound with a very clear outline of both leave and remain cases on 6 topics and some facts - yes there are some.

[JAL]

Dithering Dave. Proven liar and U turner, spineless ponce to boot.

Most probably just doing what hes been told to do.

[yoda]

Most probably just doing what hes been told to do.

Who by, spill the beans JAL

[oldjamfan1]

Who by, spill the beans JAL

Dem Scousers

[yoda]

Dem Scousers

Not the French though, 61% of frogs now don't like the EU, Greece at 71%

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36471989

We might vote to stay in a cartel that has no future anyway !

Labour doing it's best to match the Tory war

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36484354

Will politicians ever realise they are elected to represent us

[Paul]

Wasn't going to vote because I'm above that @#/?, but after watching last night's debate I'll probably vote 'Out' just to spite Cameron. Compared to the prime minister, Farage was given hardball questions and wasn't allowed to answer half of the time. Clearly the audience was pre-selected and yet Farage still managed to hold his own.

I'm not sure about harder questions for Farage and a pre-selected audience but I had the definite impression people had not written their own questions. Which I guess is another way of suggesting it was rigged.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Wasn't going to vote because I'm above that @#/?, but after watching last night's debate I'll probably vote 'Out' just to spite Cameron. Compared to the prime minister, Farage was given hardball questions and wasn't allowed to answer half of the time. Clearly the audience was pre-selected and yet Farage still managed to hold his own.

Biased questions/audiences in a supposedly unbiased TV debate? Who do ITV think they are, the BBC?

[LDRover]

I'm not sure about harder questions for Farage and a pre-selected audience but I had the definite impression people had not written their own questions. Which I guess is another way of suggesting it was rigged.

The black lady who wouldn't let Farage answer and kept calling him 'racist' was a blogger from the Huff Post well known for her extreme left wing views. She was almost certainly a 'plant'.

For me the asian fella who ripped Cameron a new one for failing on immigration was the star of the show.

[Mike E]

There are very few trustworthy materials out there on facts (perhaps because there are no facts), but this article seems to outline key criteria to help you decide which way is right for you to vote.

Money Saving Expert Martin Lewis on how to vote in the EU referendum

By far the most balanced piece I've seen on the subject, allowing justification for views on both sides of the debate.

[Al]

I'm not sure about harder questions for Farage and a pre-selected audience but I had the definite impression people had not written their own questions. Which I guess is another way of suggesting it was rigged.

It was not the questions that I considered unfair. It was the fact that neither of them were allowed to answer properly but were stopped before they could make their points. This made the whole debate a farce. I do believe that Farage came out best though but then I must admit to being biased in his favour.

[Paul]

Yes the whole thing was a farce and not even a debate. The presenter clearly felt she had to get through the set questions when it would have been better to allow full answers to fewer.

While I'm no great fan of either I thought Cameron came out significantly ahead of Farage in terms of presentation, seriousness etc. Then again I'm biased towards Cameron on this particular issue. Well not biased, I agree with him fully!! 😮

[yoda]

Yes the whole thing was a farce and not even a debate. The presenter clearly felt she had to get through the set questions when it would have been better to allow full answers to fewer.

While I'm no great fan of either I thought Cameron came out significantly ahead of Farage in terms of presentation, seriousness etc. Then again I'm biased towards Cameron on this particular issue. Well not biased, I agree with him fully!!

Interesting position, I can't see how anyone can agree fully with either side.

Especially as one is the master of all you disbelieve in.