[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[K-Hod]

Interesting position, I can't see how anyone can agree fully with either side.

Especially as one is the master of all you disbelieve in.

I don't think anyone believes fully in either side, it just depends on who you believe more in.

[Biddy]

I certainly don't believe any of the career politicians that appear to have changed their stances on europe just to suit their own agendas.

[Al]

Interesting position, I can't see how anyone can agree fully with either side.

Especially as one is the master of all you disbelieve in.

Well actually I haven't yet found much that Farage says that I disagree with. It all makes perfect sense to me and probably sums up perfectly my feelings on the subject

[yoda]

I don't think anyone believes fully in either side, it just depends on who you believe more in.

Well when Paul posts this "Then again I'm biased towards Cameron on this particular issue. Well not biased, I agree with him fully!! " I think I can take that as read

Well actually I haven't yet found much that Farage says that I disagree with. It all makes perfect sense to me and probably sums up perfectly my feelings on the subject

Full credit to you and Paul on your convictions,

Personally I have questions on both sides of the case, mainly due to lack of facts and some politicians looking after their own interests and not the country.

[K-Hod]

Well when Paul posts this "Then again I'm biased towards Cameron on this particular issue. Well not biased, I agree with him fully!! " I think I can take that as read

Full credit to you and Paul on your convictions,

Personally I have questions on both sides of the case, mainly due to lack of facts and some politicians looking after their own interests and not the country.

That Martin Lewis piece that Phil T posted above is the only balanced piece I've seen on the whole subject!

[Paul]

Well when Paul posts this "Then again I'm biased towards Cameron on this particular issue. Well not biased, I agree with him fully!! " I think I can take that as read

Full credit to you and Paul on your convictions,

Personally I have questions on both sides of the case, mainly due to lack of facts and some politicians looking after their own interests and not the country.

Good point and especially the earlier one re Cameron standing for much I don't believe in. I have in the past though said I would vote for any politician or party if I truly believed their manifesto, promises and intentions.

Regarding the EU I fully support the remain campaign which is why I back Cameron fully on this. Yes I have questions but overall I am very pro European and the EU. I see myself as a European and British.

My support is based on four key overall points and not the detail. Work experience shows me the EU brings more pluses than minuses; for my children's future I believe we must stay in the EU; there is a strong chance of recession if we leave and I think substantial stock market fall. My fourth and purely selfish reason is I'm due to take my private pension in 4 months and really don't want to see its value drop - again!

[yoda]

Good point and especially the earlier one re Cameron standing for much I don't believe in. I have in the past though said I would vote for any politician or party if I truly believed their manifesto, promises and intentions.

Regarding the EU I fully support the remain campaign which is why I back Cameron fully on this. Yes I have questions but overall I am very pro European and the EU. I see myself as a European and British.

My support is based on four key overall points and not the detail. Work experience shows me the EU brings more pluses than minuses; for my children's future I believe we must stay in the EU; there is a strong chance of recession if we leave and I think substantial stock market fall. My fourth and purely selfish reason is I'm due to take my private pension in 4 months and really don't want to see its value drop - again!

Was Gordon Brown not responsible for the pensions cock up ?

We all probably have personal reasons which will determine how we vote, for example I have a property in France, who knows what the status of that will be if we leave, I will try to vote however for what I think is best in the long term for Britain.

Looking at various polls from around Europe would suggest to me that the EU may fall apart whatever happens in the UK.

The government is at fault in this respect for saying they have no contingency plans in case of a leave vote.

Actually I think they have but won't go public with it, as it will give a view of life outside the EU.

Any government that only does a risk assessment for one side of the debate is either incompetent or lying, which would you say it is ?

[LDRover]

The black lady who wouldn't let Farage answer and kept calling him 'racist' was a blogger from the Huff Post well known for her extreme left wing views. She was almost certainly a 'plant'.

For me the asian fella who ripped Cameron a new one for failing on immigration was the star of the show.

Further to this the lady herself has today admitted that she was asked on specifically by ITV because of her viewpoints.

[jim mk2]

I see the Leave campaign are stooping to another low with their crude attacks on Turkey and the Turkish people. Their calculation is that demonising Turks adds a useful xenophobic edge to a populist campaign against the Brussels-backing elites. The aim is to harden support for the anti-EU cause among working-class voters marginalised by the 30-year neo-liberal globalisation..

The irony is that in “playing the Turkish card” the Outs debauch the democracy they say they want to rescue from the clutches of the EU. By stoking prejudice against Turks in particular and Muslims in general, they throw away the liberal tolerance that has long defined Britishness. To put i another way, a vote to Leave because of "immigration" goes against everything good that this country stands for.

[jim mk2]

Was Gordon Brown not responsible for the pensions cock up ?

We all probably have personal reasons which will determine how we vote, for example I have a property in France, who knows what the status of that will be if we leave, I will try to vote however for what I think is best in the long term for Britain.

Looking at various polls from around Europe would suggest to me that the EU may fall apart whatever happens in the UK.

The government is at fault in this respect for saying they have no contingency plans in case of a leave vote.

Actually I think they have but won't go public with it, as it will give a view of life outside the EU.

Any government that only does a risk assessment for one side of the debate is either incompetent or lying, which would you say it is ?

You read the right wing press too much. Pensions have been knackered because of low interest rates, poor stock market returns, and principally, the move companies from DB to DC schemes over the past 20 years to save costs.

Just because there are minority opposition groups in some countries doesn't mean the EU will "fall apart".

Very pleased to see you love Europe so much you' have a property there. That's one thing I love about this messageboard - you do get occasional glimpses into the lives of the 1 per cent.

[yoda]

You read the right wing press too much. Pensions have been knackered because of low interest rates, poor stock market returns, and principally, the move companies from DB to DC schemes over the past 20 years to save costs.

Just because there are minority opposition groups in some countries doesn't mean the EU will "fall apart".

Very pleased to see you love Europe so much you' have a property there. That's one thing I love about this messageboard - you do get occasional glimpses into the lives of the 1 per cent.

Jim, the poll that I read last week showed France is now 61% out of favour with the EU and Greece 71%

Re the property, I lived there for 7 years so had 1st hand experience of living in the Euro zone

You have no idea what I read, stop making uneducated guesses.

Perhaps one day you will explain your signature "The greatest country on earth" and why, if you are referring to the UK, it should give away control to Brussels

[only2garners]

Was Gordon Brown not responsible for the pensions cock up ?

He might have had some responsibility in the past but any reduction in Paul's pension pot before he retires would be down to a stock market fall now, which if we vote to leave will happen and be nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I saw a huge poster on Regent Road this morning going into Manchester, claiming that Turkey is joining the EU and 70m Turks are on their way - how can they get away with such blatant rubbish? Turkey wants to join, but no one is joining before 2020, Turkey is miles away from meeting the criteria for entry and currently heading the wrong way and every one of the 28 members has a veto on their application - can anyone really see Greece and Cyprus approving, never mind the UK? It's nearly as outrageous a claim as the £350m a week claim.

[yoda]

Was Gordon Brown not responsible for the pensions cock up ?

He might have had some responsibility in the past but any reduction in Paul's pension pot before he retires would be down to a stock market fall now, which if we vote to leave will happen and be nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I saw a huge poster on Regent Road this morning going into Manchester, claiming that Turkey is joining the EU and 70m Turks are on their way - how can they get away with such blatant rubbish? Turkey wants to join, but no one is joining before 2020, Turkey is miles away from meeting the criteria for entry and currently heading the wrong way and every one of the 28 members has a veto on their application - can anyone really see Greece and Cyprus approving, never mind the UK? It's nearly as outrageous a claim as the £350m a week claim.

They can get away with it until someone complains.

Don't forget Merkel has promised Turkey a fast track for freedom of movement in return for Turkey controlling it's borders better, that is a deal without memerbership of the EU as far as I can see.

[yoda]

Oh dear, what next ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/let-illegal-migrants-go-free-eu-court-orders-calais-police/

[adopted scouser]

We can't vote leave because apparently migrant workers take the jobs that our people won't do. Stop their bloody benefits then

[only2garners]

They can get away with it until someone complains.

Don't forget Merkel has promised Turkey a fast track for freedom of movement in return for Turkey controlling it's borders better, that is a deal without memerbership of the EU as far as I can see.

There have been more than enough complaints about the £350m a week but it doesn't seem to have stopped them slapping it on the side of their battlebus.

Merkel has only promised visitor visas, not working visas, the same as most of the rest of the western world already has.

[yoda]

There have been more than enough complaints about the £350m a week but it doesn't seem to have stopped them slapping it on the side of their battlebus.

Merkel has only promised visitor visas, not working visas, the same as most of the rest of the western world already has.

Iv'e seen pictures of some of those so called "visitors"

[Al]

I see the Leave campaign are stooping to another low with their crude attacks on Turkey and the Turkish people. Their calculation is that demonising Turks adds a useful xenophobic edge to a populist campaign against the Brussels-backing elites. The aim is to harden support for the anti-EU cause among working-class voters marginalised by the 30-year neo-liberal globalisation..

The irony is that in “playing the Turkish card” the Outs debauch the democracy they say they want to rescue from the clutches of the EU. By stoking prejudice against Turks in particular and Muslims in general, they throw away the liberal tolerance that has long defined Britishness. To put i another way, a vote to Leave because of "immigration" goes against everything good that this country stands for.

No it doesn't. A vote to leave is a vote to preserve Britishness and everything that is good in this country. Uncontrolled immigration is a sure way to change society away from the way of life that we currently (or certainly used to) enjoy. I definitely do not wish to be part of the same United States of Europe that includes Turkey or any other Muslim country.

[yoda]

We can't vote leave because apparently migrant workers take the jobs that our people won't do. Stop their bloody benefits then

I thought we could not leave because no one would trade with us

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674792/proof-Britain-will-not-lose-trade-deals-leave-EU-Chancellor-George-Osborne

Boy George got it wrong again !

[Al]

Was Gordon Brown not responsible for the pensions cock up ?

He might have had some responsibility in the past but any reduction in Paul's pension pot before he retires would be down to a stock market fall now, which if we vote to leave will happen and be nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I saw a huge poster on Regent Road this morning going into Manchester, claiming that Turkey is joining the EU and 70m Turks are on their way - how can they get away with such blatant rubbish? Turkey wants to join, but no one is joining before 2020, Turkey is miles away from meeting the criteria for entry and currently heading the wrong way and every one of the 28 members has a veto on their application - can anyone really see Greece and Cyprus approving, never mind the UK? It's nearly as outrageous a claim as the £350m a week claim.

The stock market has already made it's adjustment. It's uncertainty it does not like. Whichever way we go provided there is a decent majority should show a stock market rise after the first couple of months.

[yoda]

No it doesn't. A vote to leave is a vote to preserve Britishness and everything that is good in this country. Uncontrolled immigration is a sure way to change society away from the way of life that we currently (or certainly used to) enjoy. I definitely do not wish to be part of the same United States of Europe that includes Turkey or any other Muslim country.

Even the "controlled" part is out of control

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/677885/EU-referendum-Brexit-David-Cameron-EEA-European-Union-migration-Nigel-Farage-Ukip

[only2garners]

The stock market has already made it's adjustment. It's uncertainty it does not like. Whichever way we go provided there is a decent majority should show a stock market rise after the first couple of months.

WhTever the long term outcome of a vote for Brexit, there is almost guaranteed to be a stock market rise and sretling devaluation in the months after the vote. A vote for Remain should provide certainty, a vote for Leave will mean two years of uncertainty until such time as an agreement is reached.

[Stuart]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/07/eu-referendum-everything-you-need-to-know

A few months old but an interesting read for those only just now taking an interest.

Not convinced in the likelihood of negotiating a great deal even if we stay in the EU, if Cameron's 'achievements' are anything to go by.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Oh god, another "all you need to know" article. Why don't they just be honest and rename it "accept our opinion as absolute fact and decide your vote as such". The BBC have been using this backdoor to brainwashing people on their website for months now. Its utterly pathetic. Maybe I should start an article on this board entitled "Giving me money - all you need to know" and then set about trying to get rich.

[yoda]

Oh god, another "all you need to know" article. Why don't they just be honest and rename it "accept our opinion as absolute fact and decide your vote as such". The BBC have been using this backdoor to brainwashing people on their website for months now. Its utterly pathetic. Maybe I should start an article on this board entitled "Giving me money - all you need to know" and then set about trying to get rich.

Some people are already doing that on both sides of the fence, emails that request £5 to help fight the other side of the debate