[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[philipl]

Boris wants to be in the EU single market to protect UK but to leave the EU single market to ban immigrants. He's talking total @#/?.

[yoda]

Boris wants to be in the EU single market to protect UK but to leave the EU single market to ban immigrants. He's talking total @#/?.

They all are, about time the bureaucrats came clean about what the EU really is

[philipl]

The EU enhances British sovereignty by giving Britain power over things it can control as part of a team which it has no influence over as a nation on its own.

Just as NATO enhances British defence, the EU enhances British citizens' rights and protections.

Britain has chosen not to play as a full team player but that is a problem of the British politicians elected by the British electorate. It is not a problem of the EU.

[Mike E]

I distrust virtually everyone on the EU issue simply because there are no facts to hand about the future. I prefer to do my own thinking (dangerous, I know) rather than let know-nowt career politicians who discredit the opinions of highly educated professionals in the name of self-preservation do it for me.

I have a gut instinct (that's literally all I'm basing my vote on) that allowing ourselves to trade with the 3.5bn people in the Commonwealth and China is better than sticking to 0.5bn people in the EU.

Re: security and immigration (the other talking points) nothing will change by our leaving the EU, surely? We'll still be members of the WTO, NATO, the various G-summits, UEFA, all sporting bodies etc. The only real changes to ordinary folk I can think of by leaving the EU are:

Paying for visas (around £50 -my Visa to China), slightly higher data roaming charges (nearer £8 than £5), being able to use the much shorter non-EU queues at airports, and opening our trade possibilities to another 6.5bn people worldwide, rather than concentrating on 0.5bn of our neighbours.

I believe that it is more opportunity than risk to leave, but I'm not that fussed if we end up staying. Just feel it's very 'Little England' if we can't allow ourselves to grow like other economies (Iceland, Switzerland, Australia, China, Japan, India) without being dictated to regarding with whom we can trade. We are a bigger and better country (the greatest on Earth according to some) than being told what to do.

[jim mk2]

You regard zoos as "dangerous" places. Perhaps you ought to keep your thoughts to yourself.

[jim mk2]

WhTever the long term outcome of a vote for Brexit, there is almost guaranteed to be a stock market rise and sretling devaluation in the months after the vote. A vote for Remain should provide certainty, a vote for Leave will mean two years of uncertainty until such time as an agreement is reached.

A Leave vote is likely to see the UK stock market fall sharply in the short term and stay down in the long term as growth is hit and the consequences of leaving start to unfold. Blimey, one the reasons the Fed has delayed an interest rate rise is because it is worried about the effects of Brexit on the world economy.

I saw a huge poster on Regent Road this morning going into Manchester, claiming that Turkey is joining the EU and 70m Turks are on their way - how can they get away with such blatant rubbish? Turkey wants to join, but no one is joining before 2020, Turkey is miles away from meeting the criteria for entry and currently heading the wrong way and every one of the 28 members has a veto on their application - can anyone really see Greece and Cyprus approving, never mind the UK? It's nearly as outrageous a claim as the £350m a week claim.

That sort of stuff is a blatant lie.

[jim mk2]

Perhaps one day you will explain your signature "The greatest country on earth" and why, if you are referring to the UK, it should give away control to Brussels

We have total control over the issues that matter. Think back over the really big political and world / socio-economic events of the past 40 years - not one has involved the EU and we have been able to make all our own decisions.

We're even having an (unnecessary) referendum - and whether we decide to leave or stay there's nothing Brussels can do. That's "control".

[Mike E]

You regard zoos as "dangerous" places. Perhaps you ought to keep your thoughts to yourself.

You're so witty Jim...

Care to argue the the points made? Or can't you?

[Al]

WhTever the long term outcome of a vote for Brexit, there is almost guaranteed to be a stock market rise and sretling devaluation in the months after the vote. A vote for Remain should provide certainty, a vote for Leave will mean two years of uncertainty until such time as an agreement is reached.

Uncertainty need not be a downside. It can be an upside too and that is what I believe will happen. There is also uncertainty by remaining. Nobody knows what Brussels will rule next or if another country will leave or join. If we leave we make our own decisions. If we remain we have to do what foreigners say we have to do.

[Al]

You regard zoos as "dangerous" places. Perhaps you ought to keep your thoughts to yourself.

I think it would be great if you took your own advice Jim.

[Al]

A Leave vote is likely to see the UK stock market fall sharply in the short term and stay down in the long term as growth is hit and the consequences of leaving start to unfold. Blimey, one the reasons the Fed has delayed an interest rate rise is because it is worried about the effects of Brexit on the world economy.

That is absolute bunkum. The stock market has already made it's adjustment in anticipation of a Brexit vote.

[jim mk2]

The index is around the 6000 - 6200 level and has been for many months - when was the "adjustment" ??

[yoda]

Can't beleive that some people want to stay in the EU just so they can stand in a shorter que at the airports, the aircraft takes off as one aircraft, not two, eliteist or what.

[jim mk2]

What does that mean in English ?

[only2garners]

Can't beleive that some people want to stay in the EU just so they can stand in a shorter que at the airports, the aircraft takes off as one aircraft, not two, eliteist or what.

I think Mike's rather ill-informed comment was that it would be better if we left as then he could stand in the non EU queue. I don't think he has thought that for most people they will be getting off a plane from the UK to an EU country and the vast majority on the plane will be in the same queue as him.

[Al]

The index is around the 6000 - 6200 level and has been for many months - when was the "adjustment" ??

It's in the level. It's uncertainty that the stock market reacts to. Once there is less uncertainty, either way, the stock market will probably relax and rise.

What does that mean in English ?

Looks pretty clear to me. Whichever queue you are in the plane takes off at the same time. Being obtuse again Jim.

[Mike E]

I think Mike's rather ill-informed comment was that it would be better if we left as then he could stand in the non EU queue. I don't think he has thought that for most people they will be getting off a plane from the UK to an EU country and the vast majority on the plane will be in the same queue as him.

The plane queue bit was just a joke

If my post was ill-informed, do correct me. I don't believe I used any deliberate untruths.

[only2garners]

It's in the level. It's uncertainty that the stock market reacts to. Once there is less uncertainty, either way, the stock market will probably relax and rise.

Looks pretty clear to me. Whichever queue you are in the plane takes off at the same time. Being obtuse again Jim.

The point I was making Al is that, if there is a leave vote, the uncertainty will not end - there will be two years more whilst the negotiations with the EU take place. Until the outcome of those negotiations there will be massive uncertainty.

On immigration queues it doesn't matter when the plane takes off, as the queue is when you get off at the other end.

[Al]

The point I was making Al is that, if there is a leave vote, the uncertainty will not end - there will be two years more whilst the negotiations with the EU take place. Until the outcome of those negotiations there will be massive uncertainty.

Either way there is uncertainty and my point is that the stock market already knows this and has already made an adjustment. There are of course other market forces that will also come into play that no one can predict but this is predictable and noted.

On immigration queues it doesn't matter when the plane takes off, as the queue is when you get off at the other end.

Quite correct. My interpretation was at fault.

[JAL]

I distrust virtually everyone on the EU issue simply because there are no facts to hand about the future. I prefer to do my own thinking (dangerous, I know) rather than let know-nowt career politicians who discredit the opinions of highly educated professionals in the name of self-preservation do it for me.

I have a gut instinct (that's literally all I'm basing my vote on) that allowing ourselves to trade with the 3.5bn people in the Commonwealth and China is better than sticking to 0.5bn people in the EU.

Re: security and immigration (the other talking points) nothing will change by our leaving the EU, surely? We'll still be members of the WTO, NATO, the various G-summits, UEFA, all sporting bodies etc. The only real changes to ordinary folk I can think of by leaving the EU are:

Paying for visas (around £50 -my Visa to China), slightly higher data roaming charges (nearer £8 than £5), being able to use the much shorter non-EU queues at airports, and opening our trade possibilities to another 6.5bn people worldwide, rather than concentrating on 0.5bn of our neighbours.

I believe that it is more opportunity than risk to leave, but I'm not that fussed if we end up staying. Just feel it's very 'Little England' if we can't allow ourselves to grow like other economies (Iceland, Switzerland, Australia, China, Japan, India) without being dictated to regarding with whom we can trade. We are a bigger and better country (the greatest on Earth according to some) than being told what to do.

If we come out little Britain could be broken up with a northern powerhouse set up dividing the north and south.The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish could also go their separate ways.

What will you have then ? already £65 billion has floated out of the financial system and thats before we reach an outcome on the referendum. How much more is going to be pulled whilst the national debt continues to rise and rise.

[Mike E]

If we come out little Britain could be broken up with a northern powerhouse set up dividing the north and south.The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish could also go their separate ways.

What will you have then ? already £65 billion has floated out of the financial system and thats before we reach an outcome on the referendum. How much more is going to be pulled whilst the national debt continues to rise and rise.

If I'm in the Northern Powerhouse that you mention, why would I care?

From the way you post that scaremongering rhetoric (and I'm not be facetious, all sides are posting unsubstantiated nonsense, including my own musings above), you make it sound like it'd be advantageous to the North if we separate from London, as with Scotland, Wales, and NI.

Separate point:

Both sides of the debate are led by untrustworthy gobshites.

Leave:

A lifelong anti-EU politician (Farage)

A posh golden retreiver (Boris)

The wife of Blair's economic advisor who contributed to our mess in 2008 (Stuart)

A 'donations' fiddler (Leadsom).

Remain:

A man who had a disabled son but is happy to allow the oppression of the disabled and vulnerable, resulting in a significant minority choosing to kill themselves rather than accept the measures forced on them (our esteemed PM, Cameron)

A fish who wants independence as long as we're not independent (Sturgeon)

A bird who can't string two words together, making Paul Merson look like a literary wonder (Eagle)

A woman who knowingly misleads parliament on Energy proposals (Rudd).

Like I say, my leaning towards Out is based on a very limited understanding of economics beyond basic numbers like 'number of people we can trade with', fused with a morbid curiosity of what would come next. For sure, Britain as we are is in a horrendous state and leaving the EU (in my view) is a change that doesn't have a massive amount of risk, but does provide a fair amount of opportunity to sort our @#/? out.

[yoda]

If we come out little Britain could be broken up with a northern powerhouse set up dividing the north and south.The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish could also go their separate ways.

What will you have then ? already £65 billion has floated out of the financial system and thats before we reach an outcome on the referendum. How much more is going to be pulled whilst the national debt continues to rise and rise.

What's all this little Britain sh1t, we are the 5th largest economy in the world, you rubber dinghy men make me laugh

[jim mk2]

It's in the level. It's uncertainty that the stock market reacts to. Once there is less uncertainty, either way, the stock market will probably relax and rise.

Market's taken a heavy hit today - seems like it's about to start pricing in the possibility of a Brexit. My guess it will go down to the 5,500 level or lower so if you want to make yourself poorer you know which way to vote.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Speaking of costs, wonder how astronomical the bill for security at the Euros is gonna be? A Muslim terrorist threat costing the predominantly non-Muslim french taxpayer I'd estimate £100m+ over the tournament. Wonder if that monetary cost has been factored in by those eager to lambast the financial cost of Brexit. Stay in and we increase the terrorist threat and therefore increase the cost of policing every major event in this country well into the future. Probably talking billions over a few decades.

[Al]

Market's taken a heavy hit today - seems like it's about to start pricing in the possibility of a Brexit. My guess it will go down to the 5,500 level or lower so if you want to make yourself poorer you know which way to vote.

Nothing to do with bad debts in the Eurozone banks then?