[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

What I want to know is what will happen to employment rights once we leave the EU along with pensions in this country.

5th largest economy in the world who spun you that one yoda how much debt is it built on ?

When the interest rates go up what falls out then ?

Employment rights are enshrined in UK law and some are superior to the EU ones.

If you look at the charts for world economies you will learn something JAL, no spin. The USA has the biggest world economy and the biggest debt, your point is ?

When the interest rates go up savers might actually get some interest.

While Philip has been travelling around the EU apportioning "EU" money for a living and dining out on EU expense account gruel, no doubt flashing the wristband, along with others, a certain mister Cameron decided to give every Brit who is eligible to vote in the referendum a wristband also. It's called democracy, the cat is out of the bag, the axe is on the band stand, my man

[yoda]

28 members of a club have unanimously agreed to the club rules then the one member is now changing their mind in effect saying the club is no good.

Since when ever has the leaving member got any say in changing the club rules for the other 27 who are staying in the club?

That is the reality of "negotiation" on exit.

Norway, Switzerland, Iceland are all outside the EU but inside the single market.

They all have total freedom of movement of all European citizens. Britain will be exactly the same if it decides to leave the EU and remain in the single market.

This is why I am asking Brexiters to answer the simple question:

Single European Market- IN or OUT?

IN= no control over EU movement of people

OUT= visas, long passport queues, tariffs of 10-17% on 60% of all British exports (that is the %age of all goods and services exported going to the EU) and the biggest economic crisis in any of our lifetimes.

The EU crisis is already here Philip and it is nothing to do with the referendum

http://newsbison.com/2016/06/eu-on-brink-of-financial-colapse-france-declares-state-of-economic-emergency-as-germany-faces-financial-ruin/

[yoda]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/12/when-it-comes-to-the-single-market-you-dont-have-to-be-in-it-to/

These people make things, I would sooner listen to them than a load of EU desk jockey's

I watched this and came to the same conclusion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/11/these-insults-suggest-that-remain-is-panicking/

[jim mk2]

I'd like to place an accumulator on every nasty, thick, drunken, flag-wearing England aggressor at Euro 2016 being a Brexit voter. Any takers?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I watched this and came to the same conclusion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/11/these-insults-suggest-that-remain-is-panicking/

The remain vote (on the whole) has used a nastier, more insulting tone throughout the campaign. Both in its supporters (plenty of evidence of which has been on here) and its leadership. Comes as no surprise whatsoever that they're now slinging mud at Boris. Can only hope the British public see it for what it is, the sour, distasteful behaviour of an increasingly panicked campaign.

[adopted scouser]

I'd like to place an accumulator on every nasty, thick, drunken, flag-wearing England aggressor at Euro 2016 being a Brexit voter. Any takers?

Getting desperate now

[K-Hod]

The remain vote (on the whole) has used a nastier, more insulting tone throughout the campaign. Both in its supporters (plenty of evidence of which has been on here) and its leadership. Comes as no surprise whatsoever that they're now slinging mud at Boris. Can only hope the British public see it for what it is, the sour, distasteful behaviour of an increasingly panicked campaign.

Like the side of the 'leave' tour buses saying '£350 Million a week that could be spent on the NHS' by people that want to privatise it? They weren't wrong about Boris Johnson though were they? This is effectively an election and Boris Johnson (like many others) is desperate to be PM and he's their guy most likely. Anyhow, I can see vote leave winning, Cameron being ousted, then the government getting really nasty. Basically as Cameron hasn't been able to get these cuts over the line (and he's made noises about clamping down on tax avoiders, who are often Conservative party donors, so he's got to go). People playing political football with our future for personal gain are absolutely sickening. Honesty is evidently overrated. All IMO of course.

[dave birch]

A point raised in the Telegraph (I think) by one of their columnists was:

If Britain were not in the EU at the present time, would people vote yes to join?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Like the side of the 'leave' tour buses saying '£350 Million a week that could be spent on the NHS' by people that want to privatise it? They weren't wrong about Boris Johnson though were they? This is effectively an election and Boris Johnson (like many others) is desperate to be PM and he's their guy most likely. Anyhow, I can see vote leave winning, Cameron being ousted, then the government getting really nasty. Basically as Cameron hasn't been able to get these cuts over the line (and he's made noises about clamping down on tax avoiders, who are often Conservative party donors, so he's got to go). People playing political football with our future for personal gain are absolutely sickening. Honesty is evidently overrated. All IMO of course.

Well not trying to claim your opinion is wrong but my opinion of it all is very different. I think all this "everyone's trying to get into no.10) is a conspiracy theory cooked up by the Remain vote to discredit the Leave position. Basically saying it's such a silly position to take that it's leader MUST have ulterior motives in taking it.

I don't think it's anything of the sort. Boris simply believes leaving is the right way to go. I don't know if these rumours are true about him changing his mind but didn't Cornyn change his mind? The remain campaign seen unconcerned about questioning his motives. Personally I think in both cases they're being genuine and it's just how they feel.

[Mike E]

I'm leaning more towards leave again. 'If we leave the EU, tariffs will go up' is the flavour of the day.

Do people really believe that the buying of foreign holidays, German cars, French and Spanish wine, Belgian choc and beer, and Italian pasta will stop?

I can't honestly see how trade will cease in Europe, yet we open ourselves up to an extra 6.5bn people to negotiate trade with.

[K-Hod]

Well not trying to claim your opinion is wrong but my opinion of it all is very different. I think all this "everyone's trying to get into no.10) is a conspiracy theory cooked up by the Remain vote to discredit the Leave position. Basically saying it's such a silly position to take that it's leader MUST have ulterior motives in taking it.

I don't think it's anything of the sort. Boris simply believes leaving is the right way to go. I don't know if these rumours are true about him changing his mind but didn't Cornyn change his mind? The remain campaign seen unconcerned about questioning his motives. Personally I think in both cases they're being genuine and it's just how they feel.

Don't you think Cameron's position would be untenable if vote leave won though? I can't see how he would survive that to be honest. So the likelihood is, someone would replace him. From the Conservatives' point of view, who better than the winner of the most recent referendum? I'm not saying it's an ulterior motive, just a likelihood about what will happen.

I think Corbyn is the same, on the remain side as politically it makes sense for him.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Don't you think Cameron's position would be untenable if vote leave won though? I can't see how he would survive that to be honest. So the likelihood is, someone would replace him. From the Conservatives' point of view, who better than the winner of the most recent referendum? I'm not saying it's an ulterior motive, just a likelihood about what will happen.

I think Corbyn is the same, on the remain side as politically it makes sense for him.

I don't think it would personally. Used the Venky's analogy of sacking San after 2 good seasons for one very bad game and even his critics amongst our fanbase admitted it was a stupid decision. Cameron has won 2 elections, the second more convincingly than the first. Yeah the EU would be a very bad defeat (now like losing 7-1 in a cup final), but I think the Tories would be cutting their nose off to spite their face in forcing him out.

The main reason I vote Tory is because I consider them a pragmatic alternative to the ideal, but in my opinion naive, approach of Labour. I'd be very disappointed in their lack of pragmatism if they got rid of the guy who ended over a decade of Labour dominance.

[philipl]

Employment rights are enshrined in UK law and some are superior to the EU ones.

If you look at the charts for world economies you will learn something JAL, no spin. The USA has the biggest world economy and the biggest debt, your point is ?

When the interest rates go up savers might actually get some interest.

While Philip has been travelling around the EU apportioning "EU" money for a living and dining out on EU expense account gruel, no doubt flashing the wristband, along with others, a certain mister Cameron decided to give every Brit who is eligible to vote in the referendum a wristband also. It's called democracy, the cat is out of the bag, the axe is on the band stand, my man

Your description of me is as much a deluded inaccurate fantasy as your position on the referendum.

I'm leaning more towards leave again. 'If we leave the EU, tariffs will go up' is the flavour of the day.

Do people really believe that the buying of foreign holidays, German cars, French and Spanish wine, Belgian choc and beer, and Italian pasta will stop?

I can't honestly see how trade will cease in Europe, yet we open ourselves up to an extra 6.5bn people to negotiate trade with.

It is a fact that there is a common tariff barrier around the EU.

If Britain goes out of the EU then British goods will be outside and facing the same barrier.

It is also a fact that Britain has visa requirements for non-EU citizens visiting the UK and Schengen zone countries have visa requirements for visiting them.

If Britain goes out of the EU and imposes barriers on EU citizens coming here, expect there to be reciprocal barriers to stop British citizens going there.

Makes sense?

[RibbleValleyRover]

I don't think it would personally. Used the Venky's analogy of sacking San after 2 good seasons for one very bad game and even his critics amongst our fanbase admitted it was a stupid decision. Cameron has won 2 elections, the second more convincingly than the first. Yeah the EU would be a very bad defeat (now like losing 7-1 in a cup final), but I think the Tories would be cutting their nose off to spite their face in forcing him out.

The main reason I vote Tory is because I consider them a pragmatic alternative to the ideal, but in my opinion naive, approach of Labour. I'd be very disappointed in their lack of pragmatism if they got rid of the guy who ended over a decade of Labour dominance.

I can't see Cameron surviving which pains me to say this as I am more of a one nation conservative and more centrist than a lot on the leave side which will try and take power should Cameron go. The fact that Cameron is the most successful leader the party has had for years won't matter, the Conservatives have no qualms about getting rid of leaders. I think getting rid of Cameron will be a huge mistake and the party will pay the price if Labour can replace Corbyn and get back to center ground politics with a credible leader. I'll never vote for Boris, if he becomes leader that's me done with the party until he goes.

Corbyn will face some pressure himself if Leave do win, there is rumblings that a lot of the MP's (almost all are in the remain camp) think Labour under his leadership haven't done enough to sell the case of remaining. A leadership challenge is very possible, but getting rid of Labour leaders is no easy task compared to the Conservatives.

Usually in referendums you get a late swing to the status quo in the final few days and I think that's now the only chance that Remain have of winning. A lot of people may actually have a rethink at the ballot box, it could be that late a decision to make their mind up.

[Paul]

I'm leaning more towards leave again. 'If we leave the EU, tariffs will go up' is the flavour of the day.

Do people really believe that the buying of foreign holidays, German cars, French and Spanish wine, Belgian choc and beer, and Italian pasta will stop?

I can't honestly see how trade will cease in Europe, yet we open ourselves up to an extra 6.5bn people to negotiate trade with.

I don't think anyone - leave or stay - is suggesting trade in Europe will cease. Both sides seem to be in favour of trade with Europe.

What leave refuse to acknowledge is this:

Single market / EU rules will apply to the UK.

There will not be any "special case" for the UK

As we have to play by EU rules nothing changes except if the EU wishes it could block out access to some or all of the single market

What is very clear is we will lose any influence in setting those rules and will suffer as a result. Anyone who thinks the UK will receive special treatment is deluding themselves.

The whole leave programme is based on migration - either by those who sensibly argue we need some reform and control or those who build on the dislike, fear and distrust of migrants amongst the electorate. Those who want migration to change as a result of leaving the EU are going to be very, very disappointed. It won't alter one jot.

Migration watch are forecasting net migration at 265,000 per year for the next 20 years with 159,000 from the EU and 97,000 elsewhere if we remain in the EU.

In 2015 the figures were 333,000 184,000, 188,000.

That's a reduction on the 2015 position.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Still glumly expect a Remain victory myself. The bookies hugely out-predicted the pollsters at the election and they've always been firmly of the opinion Remain is gonna win. As you say I think a lot of tentative Leave voters will get cold feet in the last couple of days. Hope they don't though!

[RibbleValleyRover]

Still glumly expect a Remain victory myself. The bookies hugely out-predicted the pollsters at the election and they've always been firmly of the opinion Remain is gonna win. As you say I think a lot of tentative Leave voters will get cold feet in the last couple of days. Hope they don't though!

The polling companies got burnt badly by the GE, since then they have been making tweaks to their methodology and they did get the London, local elections and the elections in Scotland more or less spot on.

Has anyone seen the new Leave EU campaign advert?

Absolutely disgraceful

[Tom]

Had an email at work this morning (very large company) saying the companies stance is Remain but encouraging people to vote one way or another

[perthblue02]

The polling companies got burnt badly by the GE, since then they have been making tweaks to their methodology and they did get the London, local elections and the elections in Scotland more or less spot on.

Has anyone seen the new Leave EU campaign advert?

Absolutely disgraceful

Where is that taken from? twitter by any chance from a remain voters account? , looks to me to be a quick photoshop job and does not seem in the same style the leave eu campaign have been using so far.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Has anyone seen the new Leave EU campaign advert?

Absolutely disgraceful

Why is that disgraceful?

[yoda]

Your description of me is as much a deluded inaccurate fantasy as your position on the referendum.

It is a fact that there is a common tariff barrier around the EU.

If Britain goes out of the EU then British goods will be outside and facing the same barrier.

It is also a fact that Britain has visa requirements for non-EU citizens visiting the UK and Schengen zone countries have visa requirements for visiting them.

If Britain goes out of the EU and imposes barriers on EU citizens coming here, expect there to be reciprocal barriers to stop British citizens going there.

Makes sense?

Considering your outburst that your life is over if we leave the EU I think I am pretty much on the money Philip

I have had several career changes, some by choice some not.

If you do not have transferable skills by this stage in your life you are doing something wrong.

I suggest you read "who moved my cheese" and change your life mentor

An example of car being designed by the EU

A car designed by JL who operate both in the EU and outside the EU very successfully

Unemployment in the Eurozone 10.2%

Unemployment in the UK 5.4%

You do the maths

[RibbleValleyRover]

Where is that taken from? twitter by any chance from a remain voters account? , looks to me to be a quick photoshop job and does not seem in the same style the leave eu campaign have been using so far.

It was posted by Leave.EU on their offical twitter so I would assume it was made by them, it's been taken down now but it was too late. Leave.EU is the Farage/UKIP linked campaign.

[Paul]

Had an email at work this morning (very large company) saying the companies stance is Remain but encouraging people to vote one way or another

Only have to listen to the news to guess that one Tom!

The polling companies got burnt badly by the GE, since then they have been making tweaks to their methodology and they did get the London, local elections and the elections in Scotland more or less spot on.

Has anyone seen the new Leave EU campaign advert?

Absolutely disgraceful

Outrageous.

All over the web now with a simple google of "leave.eu poster"

[Biddy]

[perthblue02]

It was posted by Leave.EU on their offical twitter so I would assume it was made by them, it's been taken down now but it was too late. Leave.EU is the Farage/UKIP linked campaign.

That is a major own goal if they have sanctioned that one, not to mention the tasteless use of orlando