[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[dave birch]

Maybe you're right, Paul. The rules and regs change every five minutes these days.

TJ, maybe the Government have made the decision that you're irrelevant.

Only joking

[K-Hod]

  On 20/06/2016 at 08:37, T J Hooker said:

i still havent received a voting card or anything that tells me where my voting station is

Where is your usual polling station? If you're registered to vote, just turn up there and give your name on the day. It's what I always do.

[T J Hooker]

  On 20/06/2016 at 08:41, dave birch said:

TJ, maybe the Government have made the decision that you're irrelevant.

Only joking

or dangerously relevant and hugely influential

[gumboots]

  On 20/06/2016 at 08:37, T J Hooker said:

i still havent received a voting card or anything that tells me where my voting station is, anybody else the same?

labour scam maybe! make it as hard as possible to vote for those living in areas that would obviously be more anti immigration, etc.

if you were able to vote in the may elections you can vote in this one. Your polling station will be the same and you don't need a poll card to vote, although you'd be wise to have your driving licence with you in case they ask for I'd. They never have so far but could

[Al]

I've already sent in my postal vote so I see no reason to keep on reading more pages of Jim and phillip waffle. Roll on the result which I will accept whichever way it goes. At least it is democratic.

[gumboots]

Don't read it then. Lol. If you've voted why wing yourself up by reading stuff you've already decided to disagree with?

[yoda]

I watched Cameron on the Dimbleby prog, he got a right dicking from both sides of the fence as well as those sat on it.

Two things came across loud and clear,

there is a lot of anger out there because of lack of information/facts and

the concessions Cameron says he has got will never get approved by all 28 countries.

[yoda]

  On 19/06/2016 at 22:56, jim mk2 said:

Baroness Warsi, former Tory party chairman (and a particularly unpleasant woman), switched from the Leave to the Remain camp tonight because of Farage's Syria poster and "the hate and divisiveness" of the Brexit campaign. Are the rats leaving the sinking ship?

One of the best own goals of the campaign to date, she should be debating the issues instead of a poster, she has previous of changing her mind on a whim.

[Biddy]

The Leave campaign has also said they were never aware of her allegiance so impossible to say if she has actually changed sides. I guess it's all political point scoring again.

[Guest]

  On 20/06/2016 at 09:12, Al said:

Roll on the result which I will accept whichever way it goes. At least it is democratic.

It's almost at the point where I'll be more relieved that this referendum is over rather than the result itself. It's been a horrible campaign. It's had some horrible effects on people, and I've seen enough aggression and anger about this in my personal circles, let alone in the news. There's been far too much anger over this campaign. I've seen very little debate and too much fabrication and insulting going on. It's been a pathetic campaign, and some people have behaved pathetically, too.

As Al has suggested, we need to accept the result as the nation's will. I hope we can move on together and get the best out of what we have left, because this result won't be undone in our lifetimes.

[philipl]

  On 20/06/2016 at 10:35, Biddy said:

The Leave campaign has also said they were never aware of her allegiance so impossible to say if she has actually changed sides. I guess it's all political point scoring again.

Just looked through the press and she was quoted as being on the Brexit side at least four times but chided ZaC Goldsmith for equating Sadiq Khan with terrorists and Farage for saying refugees are rapists.

[Biddy]

  On 20/06/2016 at 10:53, philipl said:

Just looked through the press and she was quoted as being on the Brexit side at least four times but chided ZaC Goldsmith for equating Sadiq Khan with terrorists and Farage for saying refugees are rapists.

Is that the presser from today? As said, the Leave campaign never even thought she was on their side.

I know this site is very one sided, but I suppose that is the point

http://order-order.com/2016/06/20/warsi-wanted-europe-declined-join-leave-campaign/

Farage this morning:

• He said the idea that Sayeeda Warsi had defected from Leave to Remain was “nonsense” and that the whole thing was a “the biggest put-up job” he had seen.

"This is the biggest put-up job I’ve ever seen. Number 10 put the line out, the Times swallow it hook, line and sinker and the broadcasters start reporting it. Baroness Warsi has been consistently abusive about everything I’ve said and done, and Ukip’s said and done, for the last few years. And I heard her interviewed earlier on this morning where she said she was campaigning for a change of Britain’s relationship [with the EU]. She never supported Britain leaving in the first place. It’s utter nonsense. She never was [a supporter]. In fact, Dan Hannan, who’s a friend of hers, the Conservative MEP, he invited her to join Muslims for Britain, he invited her to speak on platforms, and she refused. It’s a non story."

Taken from the Guardian website tracking today's events

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/20/eu-referendum-live-warsi-leave-parliament-recalled-jo-cox

[Al]

  On 20/06/2016 at 10:43, Phil T said:

It's almost at the point where I'll be more relieved that this referendum is over rather than the result itself. It's been a horrible campaign. It's had some horrible effects on people, and I've seen enough aggression and anger about this in my personal circles, let alone in the news. There's been far too much anger over this campaign. I've seen very little debate and too much fabrication and insulting going on. It's been a pathetic campaign, and some people have behaved pathetically, too.

As Al has suggested, we need to accept the result as the nation's will. I hope we can move on together and get the best out of what we have left, because this result won't be undone in our lifetimes.

Exactly as I feel now. Let's just have a result, accept it and get on with it.

[Mike E]

I just hope we don't get the usual scum on either side of the fence 'protesting' outside parliament if they don't get their way.

Those kind of people (democracy, but on my terms) are an affront to decency.

[Gav]

  On 20/06/2016 at 11:21, Mike E said:

I just hope we don't get the usual scum on either side of the fence 'protesting' outside parliament if they don't get their way.

Those kind of people (democracy, but on my terms) are an affront to decency.

The Scottish referendum was apparently a 'once in a generation event' but Nicola Sturgeon thinks they'll have another referendum within the next 5yrs.

It makes a complete mockery of democracy in my opinion, the people have voted in Scotland, but lets have another go until we get the result the politicians want, why bother voting?

So I wouldn't hold your breath on that one if I was you Mike.

Countries have voted to leave the EU, but non have actually left when push came to shove, its a farce.

[joey_big_nose]

  On 19/06/2016 at 21:52, Mike E said:

I've heard the best argument for 'Leave' today (as in, the only thing that comes close to a 'truth' from either side imo):

'Look at all the high profile people who want to remain. They're all 'in' the establishment. They're the ones who either HAVE the money, or move it around, or have a vested personal interest in keeping it at the top table'.

It strikes me as quite an anarchist or even communist argument, but it rings truer than anything put forward by either campaign.

.

From what I read on here Mark you seem a thoroughly good bloke. But I have to say I really struggle to understand how this statement makes sense. Lots of detailed quality analysis has been produced on the likely result if we leave the EU. There is no need to resort to suppositions and conspiracy theories.

Your quote above basically says "expert opinion does not matter even when near unanimous" which is extraordianry. If nearly all teachers were telling you that a policy change will have profoundly negative concequences for education would you not listen to their advice? Economists, Banks and Policy makers have all nearly unanimously lined up behind Remain.

Its a total fallacy that the analysis is not out there.

  On 20/06/2016 at 11:31, Gav said:

The Scottish referendum was apparently a 'once in a generation event' but Nicola Sturgeon thinks they'll have another referendum within the next 5yrs.

It makes a complete mockery of democracy in my opinion, the people have voted in Scotland, but lets have another go until we get the result the politicians want, why bother voting?

So I wouldn't hold your breath on that one if I was you Mike.

Countries have voted to leave the EU, but non have actually left when push came to shove, its a farce.

I agree thay there shouldnt be another referendum for a generatio - unless of course we leave the EU while Scotland votes to remain. In that case Scotland (and Wales and NI) are well within their rights to call another referendum.

[chor808]

  On 20/06/2016 at 11:43, joey_big_nose said:

From what I read on here Mark you seem a thoroughly good bloke. But I have to say I really struggle to understand how this statement makes sense. Lots of detailed quality analysis has been produced on the likely result if we leave the EU. There is no need to resort to suppositions and conspiracy theories.

Your quote above basically says "expert opinion does not matter even when near unanimous" which is extraordianry. If nearly all teachers were telling you that a policy change will have profoundly negative concequences for education would you not listen to their advice? Economists, Banks and Policy makers have all nearly unanimously lined up behind Remain.

Its a total fallacy that the analysis is not out there.

I agree thay there shouldnt be another referendum for a generatio - unless of course we leave the EU while Scotland votes to remain. In that case Scotland (and Wales and NI) are well within their rights to call another referendum.

If you get chance watch the daily politics show that has just aired (BBC2). At about 45 mins in they invite a lady from the Center Party to speak, the first thing she says is that she is not trying to get involved in the debat and it's up to the UK people to decide which way they vote and so on. She then goes on the explain the vote that happened in Norway back in 1994 and the campaign run by the yes side (yes to join the EU), I nearly fell off my chair. Exactly the same arguments from the yes side, the same scare stories, the same groups lining up to tell them to join and that the world will cave in if you don't, it really was like a carbon copy.

Made my mind up.

Oh and a link however they are of course anti EU

http://www.betteroffout.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Britain-do-not-listen-to-the-Scaremongering-statement-from-the-Board-of-No-to-EU-in-Norway.pdf

And another good read for in and out.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/04/24/world/politics-diplomacy-world/history-of-nordic-eu-referendums-holds-lessons-for-british-vote/#.V2fd6zXt--A

[Mike E]

  On 20/06/2016 at 11:43, joey_big_nose said:

From what I read on here Mark you seem a thoroughly good bloke. But I have to say I really struggle to understand how this statement makes sense. Lots of detailed quality analysis has been produced on the likely result if we leave the EU. There is no need to resort to suppositions and conspiracy theories.

Your quote above basically says "expert opinion does not matter even when near unanimous" which is extraordianry. If nearly all teachers were telling you that a policy change will have profoundly negative concequences for education would you not listen to their advice? Economists, Banks and Policy makers have all nearly unanimously lined up behind Remain.

Its a total fallacy that the analysis is not out there.

I agree thay there shouldnt be another referendum for a generatio - unless of course we leave the EU while Scotland votes to remain. In that case Scotland (and Wales and NI) are well within their rights to call another referendum.

It's posted tongue in cheek. This referendum needs some light relief.

[yoda]

  On 20/06/2016 at 11:43, joey_big_nose said:

From what I read on here Mark you seem a thoroughly good bloke. But I have to say I really struggle to understand how this statement makes sense. Lots of detailed quality analysis has been produced on the likely result if we leave the EU. There is no need to resort to suppositions and conspiracy theories.

Your quote above basically says "expert opinion does not matter even when near unanimous" which is extraordianry. If nearly all teachers were telling you that a policy change will have profoundly negative concequences for education would you not listen to their advice? Economists, Banks and Policy makers have all nearly unanimously lined up behind Remain.

Its a total fallacy that the analysis is not out there.

I agree thay there shouldnt be another referendum for a generatio - unless of course we leave the EU while Scotland votes to remain. In that case Scotland (and Wales and NI) are well within their rights to call another referendum.

The only right Scotland have on the subject is if Westminster grants it

[philipl]

  On 20/06/2016 at 10:57, Biddy said:

Is that the presser from today? As said, the Leave campaign never even thought she was on their side.

I know this site is very one sided, but I suppose that is the point

http://order-order.com/2016/06/20/warsi-wanted-europe-declined-join-leave-campaign/

Farage this morning:

• He said the idea that Sayeeda Warsi had defected from Leave to Remain was “nonsense” and that the whole thing was a “the biggest put-up job” he had seen.

"This is the biggest put-up job I’ve ever seen. Number 10 put the line out, the Times swallow it hook, line and sinker and the broadcasters start reporting it. Baroness Warsi has been consistently abusive about everything I’ve said and done, and Ukip’s said and done, for the last few years. And I heard her interviewed earlier on this morning where she said she was campaigning for a change of Britain’s relationship [with the EU]. She never supported Britain leaving in the first place. It’s utter nonsense. She never was [a supporter]. In fact, Dan Hannan, who’s a friend of hers, the Conservative MEP, he invited her to join Muslims for Britain, he invited her to speak on platforms, and she refused. It’s a non story."

Taken from the Guardian website tracking today's events

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/20/eu-referendum-live-warsi-leave-parliament-recalled-jo-cox

The London Elections were in May because April is when Zac Goldsmith was branding Sadiq Khan a terrorist sympathiser and Warsi called him out as a fellow Brexiteer for damaging Brexit then her letter to the Guardian rollocking Farage for besmirching the Brexit campaign she was part of by calling all refugees rapists was on 7 June.

So not for the first time Farage is lying and can be very easily shown to be a liar.

  On 20/06/2016 at 15:42, yoda said:

The only right Scotland have on the subject is if Westminster grants it

Westminster has in the Government of Scotland Act of 1998.

[yoda]

He started it, she started it it, No he didn't, no she didn't FFS

Parliament at least have said today that these things need toning down yet you seem determined to continue with it

[jim mk2]

  On 20/06/2016 at 11:31, Gav said:

The Scottish referendum was apparently a 'once in a generation event' but Nicola Sturgeon thinks they'll have another referendum within the next 5yrs.

It makes a complete mockery of democracy in my opinion, the people have voted in Scotland, but lets have another go until we get the result the politicians want, why bother voting?

A Brexit vote would change everything and possibly lead to a constitutional crisis because of the need to repeal EU laws that are incorporated into the devolution statutes in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This would put Westminster on a collision course with Holyrood because any UK govt attempt to force through changes would provoke outrage in Scotland where polls suggest the vote will be heavily in favour of Remain. In a nutshell, a Brexit would give Scotland a mandate to call a second indpendence referendum. .

Latest polls show 53% Remain 47% leave.

[yoda]

  On 20/06/2016 at 17:14, jim mk2 said:

A Brexit vote would change everything and possibly lead to a constitutional crisis because of the need to repeal EU laws that are incorporated into the devolution statutes in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This would put Westminster on a collision course with Holyrood because any UK govt attempt to force through changes would provoke outrage in Scotland where polls suggest the vote will be heavily in favour of Remain. In a nutshell, a Brexit would give Scotland a mandate to call a second indpendence referendum. .

Latest polls show 53% Remain 47% leave.

Would England get a vote this time

[Stuart]

It doesn't help when anyone with ideas about Leave being their preferred option is automatically called a closet racist and migration projected onto them by the Remainists as their only line of attack.

If anything that, plus the pessimistic and threatening rhetoric being thrown around, is creating a situation of wanting to vote AGAINST the personalities rather than FOR the arguments.

With a couple of days left to go, I've still to have anyone sell the positives of staying in the EU (even if they aren't sure) rather than only peddle the negatives of leaving. That's pretty sad really.

Political bullying: you'll vote Remain... if you know what's good for you.

[only2garners]

Well Stuart, here are two.

Turning the warnings on their head you will almost certainly be financially better off if we remain in the EU.

Staying in the EU will give us all a better chance of peace and security as we have had in the last 50 years after centuries of conflict.