[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Stuart]

Well Stuart, here are two.

Turning the warnings on their head you will almost certainly be financially better off if we remain in the EU.

Staying in the EU will give us all a better chance of peace and security as we have had in the last 50 years after centuries of conflict.

But, by your own admission, you've just spun the threats.

[yoda]

Well Stuart, here are two.

Turning the warnings on their head you will almost certainly be financially better off if we remain in the EU.

Staying in the EU will give us all a better chance of peace and security as we have had in the last 50 years after centuries of conflict.

Tell that to the Crimean's

[Baz]

But, by your own admission, you've just spun the threats.

Voting remain almost certainly will reduce Farages tv appearances.

[Paul]

Stuart, off the top of my head positive reasons to vote Remain:

50% of our trade is with the EU

Low cost flights

Data roaming capped

Consumer Sales Directive - right to repair etc

Consumer Rights Directive - 14 day cooling off

Common safety standards

Blue badge across Europe

Consumer Credit - credit card protection across Europe

Free movement of labour works both ways

Protected origin status - Melton Mowbray pie etc.

EU funding - numerous projects

Blue flag beaches

Overseas study

Fishing quotas conserve and grow stocks

Cleaner air and water

Pan European approach to climate change

Pan European air traffic control

Exchange of security information

European Arrest Warrant

EU forced France to lift ban on British beef

UK farming reliant on EU subsidies

70% UK farm exports are to EU

Common H&S standards

Energy security

Defence

Workers rights

Free health care

Pan European laws

Inward investment

Gateway to Europe for none EU countries

World's biggest market

Germany and France are large UK trading partners

Pan European driving licence

Live where you want

Jobs

I now need a drink!!!

[Stuart]

Stuart, off the top of my head positive reasons to vote Remain:

50% of our trade is with the EU

Low cost flights

Data roaming capped

Consumer Sales Directive - right to repair etc

Consumer Rights Directive - 14 day cooling off

Common safety standards

Blue badge across Europe

Consumer Credit - credit card protection across Europe

Free movement of labour works both ways

Protected origin status - Melton Mowbray pie etc.

EU funding - numerous projects

Blue flag beaches

Overseas study

Fishing quotas conserve and grow stocks

Cleaner air and water

Pan European approach to climate change

Pan European air traffic control

Exchange of security information

European Arrest Warrant

EU forced France to lift ban on British beef

UK farming reliant on EU subsidies

70% UK farm exports are to EU

Common H&S standards

Energy security

Defence

Workers rights

Free health care

Pan European laws

Inward investment

Gateway to Europe for none EU countries

World's biggest market

Germany and France are large UK trading partners

Pan European driving licence

Live where you want

Jobs

I now need a drink!!!

Thanks for this but all of these are things which exist now. Many of these will remain. Or are you suggesting that we will lose all of these?

[yoda]

Stuart, off the top of my head positive reasons to vote Remain:

50% of our trade is with the EU 53.6% actually http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/ the other charts are interesting

Low cost flights more polution

Data roaming capped

Consumer Sales Directive - right to repair etc why would that end ?

Consumer Rights Directive - 14 day cooling off why would that end ?

Common safety standards All based on BS/ISO standards anyway

Blue badge across Europe

Consumer Credit - credit card protection across Europe

Free movement of labour works both ways

Protected origin status - Melton Mowbray pie etc. Don't think you could move the town out of the UK

EU funding - numerous projects our money

Blue flag beaches they are a fixture

Overseas study always happened in the past

Fishing quotas conserve and grow stocks we know what has happened to the UK fishing industry

Cleaner air and water where did you get that from?

Pan European approach to climate change

Pan European air traffic control that would be in place anyway

Exchange of security information the best info comes from the UK

European Arrest Warrant

EU forced France to lift ban on British beef how long did that take?

UK farming reliant on EU subsidies

70% UK farm exports are to EU

Common H&S standards All based on BS/ISO standards anyway

Energy security

Defence UK armed forces and NATO do this

Workers rights why would that end ?

Free health care that is not true we pay for it in taxes

Pan European laws yep, far to many not in our interests

Inward investment

Gateway to Europe for none EU countries

World's biggest market the world's biggest market is the world

Germany and France are large UK trading partners we buy far more of them than they buy off us, see charts above

Pan European driving licence and?

Live where you want why would that end?

Jobs massive unemployment in the rest of the EU

I now need a drink!!! Wine 15% cheaper if we leave

[Paul]

All I was doing was providing an off the top of my head list of EU benefits. I'm not suggesting any will change for certain - though I'd put money on health care being one to go PDQ. These are tangible benefits we have as a result of being in the EU. Some may disappear others not - that was not the point.

The EU has provided these things many of which benefit each of us every day. We don't know what future benefits will arise nor negatives either.

It's a choice does one want to benefit from future EU progress or not. Can the UK, for example, take on the might of Microsoft or Google? Unlikely but the EU can. Why? Because it's the world's largest single market.

[philipl]

Stuart, given your academic background, here are a list of University-related arguments for remaining in the EU:

90% of all University staff are against Brexit.

Because of the success of the Bologna Process, Universities are more integrated into the EU than almost any other sector.

The QAA for instance applies the ENQA rules which enables any degree from any European country to be recognised in any other country. This is a dramatic help for European graduates to get work in any European country because their degrees are automatically recognised at a commonly agreed level

This process extends to lower level qualifications and now vocational and professional qualifications are being mapped to their academic equivalents through Eqavet

So a qualified ACCA for instance has a recognition at Level 6 which is the entry point for a Masters degree

Similalry Research is now largely funded at a European level

then perhaps the most damaging of all is the UK would be excluded from Erasmus programmes

that will disadvantage our kids
Now 1m young people a year are sponsored to spend time studying in other EU countries

Every UK University is in Erasmus

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/european-union-referendum-nine-out-of-ten-university-staff-back-remain
EU referendum: nine out of 10 university staff back Remain
THE survey finds 40 per cent of respondents say they are more likely to depart UK if Leave wins
timeshighereducation.com

For every £1m spent on HE in the UK, £345K comes from the EU.

There is a huge weight of facts but the remain campaign was taken over by Cameron

He argued that scaring the voters won the AV referendum, the Scottish Independence referendum and the General Election. Lib Dems and Labour argued that Remain should be far more visionary but Cameron went off on his own with his attempt to scare people.

Just to give you an idea of life after Brexit:

If Friday produces Brexit, the London Stock Exchange will close for the day as it will lose the 15% limit in ten minutes of trading.

The Pound will drop 30% in the morning and the Bank of England will be forced to intervene and put up interest rates to 2%

Inflation will restart

Petrol will cost £1.20 by the end of the weekend

Also, many companies will use the Brexit excuse to push through contingency job loss programmes

Between 100,000 and 250,000 jobs will go before the end of July
The problem is that most businesses simply assumed no Brexit and even if there is Brexit, Britain would remain in the single market
Because Brexit has turned the campaign into a single issue immigration referendum, if they win, Britain will have to leave the single market "to take back control of our borders".

Suppose France left the EU- we would be mad at our Government if we didn't take advantage of the French making themselves uncompetitive.

Forget about what happens in negotiations, 27 countries will be setting up offices in the UK on Friday to persuade businesses that need to stay in the single market and to invest in the countries still inside the EU.

The London finance sector, the Universities, the successful high tech sectors would all be destroyed within 12 months
All these sectors need highly mobile global people- they are not going to hang around waiting for Brexit to be negotiated when they know it will be bad, very bad or utterly disastrous for them personally.

[yoda]

All I was doing was providing an off the top of my head list of EU benefits. I'm not suggesting any will change for certain - though I'd put money on health care being one to go PDQ. These are tangible benefits we have as a result of being in the EU. Some may disappear others not - that was not the point.

The EU has provided these things many of which benefit each of us every day. We don't know what future benefits will arise nor negatives either.

It's a choice does one want to benefit from future EU progress or not. Can the UK, for example, take on the might of Microsoft or Google? Unlikely but the EU can. Why? Because it's the world's largest single market.

I think a lot of those "benefits" would have come about in the UK anyway. EU progress is akin to watching paint dry.

TTIP is the big danger to the NHS. the support services are not protected in the TTIP deal.

Again, the worlds largest market, is the world

[Paul]

Yoda I'll not bother to quote you for the sake of space - huge quotes and short answers irritate me.

My point is simply my list is one of current EU benefits. If you feel all of this would have happened without the EU that's OK with me. Somehow I doubt it though.

To take just one. Fish stocks are recovering. With or without the EU the UK fishing industry would have collapsed - no fish to catch!!

[Paul]

I think a lot of those "benefits" would have come about in the UK anyway. EU progress is akin to watching paint dry.

TTIP is the big danger to the NHS. the support services are not protected in the TTIP deal.

Again, the worlds largest market, is the world

No there are multiple markets in the world. The EU is just one. 53.6% 😀 Of our trade is with this market and the other 46.4% with the rest of the world. Seems like a good split to me - don't put all your eggs in one market.

[yoda]

Yoda I'll not bother to quote you for the sake of space - huge quotes and short answers irritate me.

My point is simply my list is one of current EU benefits. If you feel all of this would have happened without the EU that's OK with me. Somehow I doubt it though.

To take just one. Fish stocks are recovering. With or without the EU the UK fishing industry would have collapsed - no fish to catch!!

Come on Paul, I did not say all.

The UK is a modern forward looking country so I believe many of those probably would have come about anyway, we just don't know for sure.

Why would the fishing industry have collapsed? not heard that one before !

[Paul]

True you didn't

No fish

[yoda]

No fish

where did it go

[perthblue02]

All I was doing was providing an off the top of my head list of EU benefits. I'm not suggesting any will change for certain - though I'd put money on health care being one to go PDQ. These are tangible benefits we have as a result of being in the EU. Some may disappear others not - that was not the point.

The EU has provided these things many of which benefit each of us every day. We don't know what future benefits will arise nor negatives either.

It's a choice does one want to benefit from future EU progress or not. Can the UK, for example, take on the might of Microsoft or Google? Unlikely but the EU can. Why? Because it's the world's largest single market.

What you have stated above depends on if you trust the EU not to cave in to what the US and their Corporations want with US EU TTIP agreement. I presume you did not watch the video I posted about Companies suing Governments if they happen to pass legislation that hits their business, which would happen more if the Big Corp incs EU lobbyists are successful.

You really think Obama's BS scare tactic comments where because he felt it was in the best interests of the normal working class Brit?

[jim mk2]

Huge rebound in the pound and stock market today as markets scent a Remain victory. Market watchers are predicting another "Black Friday" on Friday in the event of a Leave vote.

[perthblue02]

Might be "impartial" but it's not at all balanced. Still only bad news if we leave.

I think bit being very impartial is a good thing whether it is balance or not, its a lot more honest than anything from both the leave and remain camp as far as fact checking goes.

I would beg to differ as to me it comes across as more unknown than bad news, much like it is unknown what the EU will do in the future.

Although what the unknown future of the EU plans is more to do with deciding not to release or delay information that should be vitally important to people making up their minds on plans of the EU in the next couple of years.

[ABBEY]

Cleaner water .. Bunkum

How the hell can it be cleaner in Europe ? If you don't boil it you get sh1ts

[perthblue02]

Huge rebound in the pound and stock market today as markets scent a Remain victory. Market watchers are predicting another "Black Friday" on Friday in the event of a Leave vote.

Of course Jim the big banks and associated industries who negotiated with the EU no tough checks and balances after they screwed millions of people in 2008 want Britain to stay were they want it , and are predicting melt down, what a surprise. They would not be funding the remain campaign if it was not in their interests.

[ABBEY]

Workers rights ? That Greek slipper maker who was tired has cost me a fortune in lost overtime !

[T J Hooker]

A Brexit vote would change everything and possibly lead to a constitutional crisis because of the need to repeal EU laws that are incorporated into the devolution statutes in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This would put Westminster on a collision course with Holyrood because any UK govt attempt to force through changes would provoke outrage in Scotland where polls suggest the vote will be heavily in favour of Remain. In a nutshell, a Brexit would give Scotland a mandate to call a second indpendence referendum. .

Latest polls show 53% Remain 47% leave.

and so what... the Scottish people will then decide for themselves what they want to do and fair do's to them whatever decision they make.

[Paul]

What you have stated above depends on if you trust the EU not to cave in to what the US and their Corporations want with US EU TTIP agreement. I presume you did not watch the video I posted about Companies suing Governments if they happen to pass legislation that hits their business, which would happen more if the Big Corp incs EU lobbyists are successful.

You really think Obama's BS scare tactic comments where because he felt it was in the best interests of the normal working class Brit?

No I didn't watch it but I've been very aware of TTIP for a long time. I think it was Glenn who first made me aware of it.

As for Obama I'm sure it was self interest or he was lent on. I do though genuinely feel the benefits for the general UK population, the working man if you like, are there to be seen. It's just a question of whether or not people are prepared to recognise this.

Cleaner water .. Bunkum

How the hell can it be cleaner in Europe ? If you don't boil it you get sh1ts

Rivers and seas ABBEY not tap water.

[jim mk2]

and so what... the Scottish people will then decide for themselves what they want to do and fair do's to them whatever decision they make.

The point is a Leave vote could likely lead to the break up of the United Kingdom, and reopen the Irish question after nearly 20 years of peace. If you want to take that risk vote Leave.

[ABBEY]

Ireland is bubbling with or without .. Corbyn will be happy though he can have a pint with his terrorist chums

[perthblue02]

No I didn't watch it but I've been very aware of TTIP for a long time. I think it was Glenn who first made me aware of it.

As for Obama I'm sure it was self interest or he was lent on. I do though genuinely feel the benefits for the general UK population, the working man if you like, are there to be seen. It's just a question of whether or not people are prepared to recognise this.

That is fair enough Paul, I actually believe that remain will win but not because it is better , but because of a fear of the unknown. Which unfortunately applies to the EU if people do their homework but exit is easily seen as an unknown.

My proxy vote has already gone in and I have seen nothing that has made me regret my decision.

I just hope that it is very close as that may give Britain a stronger negotiating base because the last thing Germany , France and Italy want is Britain out for their own reasons and the same can be said for the Eastern Europe countries who see Britain as a closer ally than the other three.

The fall out in Britain is going to be very interesting as a result