[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

But then he steps into the "unknown" and realises it was not just a cliff but a deep dark chasm which has no bottom. And he realises that he should have listened to the advice.

A lowish turnout or a very high turnout would be better for Leave according to a piece I read today whereas somewhere in the middle would be better for Remain. I'm not sure how that works but pollsters have their ways.

It's comical reading about people who have left the country and said they would never come back. My old schoolteacher had a word for them = failures.

Do you think the same JIm? (you have worded it carefully)

It would imply that the people who have come to this country and don't want to go back home are also failures.

[perthblue02]

What do you think of this Jim ?

Seems a decent MP , on the left of the Labour party and one of the backers for Corbyn's Leadership bid, most of his working career within the union movement and got a BA in politics and economics amongst others, admittedly a Euro sceptic.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/eu-doesnt-protect-workers-rights-it-has-destroyed-them

[yoda]

Back to the referendum (as it affects those of us who love living in this country) - stock market and currency is firm today as investors bet on a Remain victory.

The FTSE could fall below 5,000 in the event of Brexit according to brokers while Osborne has even talked of suspending trading on Friday if the vote goes Out.

I see it is Osborne now and not Gideon

you change like the English weather

[jim mk2]

What do you think of this Jim ?

Seems a decent MP , on the left of the Labour party and one of the backers for Corbyn's Leadership bid, most of his working career within the union movement and got a BA in politics and economics amongst others, admittedly a Euro sceptic.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/eu-doesnt-protect-workers-rights-it-has-destroyed-them

Just shows the diversity of opinion across the political spectrum.

Like the Tories the Labour party is split, and so is the trade union movement.

This will be an unusual vote in that it won't be along party lines.

[tomphil]

The vote has nothing to do with the future of this country in Cameron's eyes.

Cameron called the vote for 2 reasons . The first was to try to lure Ukip voters over to the Tories before the last election and the second was to try to unite the Tory party because the Europe issue was threatening to divide it in the same way as in the 1990s under Major.

Cameron deserves to fall on his own sword whichever way the vote goes. A Brexit vote and his position will be untenable and a Remain vote will see the right wing wing of the party (which is furious with him anyway for backing In) will force him out.

Then we can all look forward to Gove or Johnson in power.

For those who follow the money, the bookies say the odds are shortening on Remain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-bookies-have-always-made-a-remain-vote-favourite-and-the-odds-continue-to-shorten-a7093971.html

Couldn't agree more, whichever way it goes and whichever side of the fence anyone sits this guy has to go. He's handled it appallingly from the beginning and for me has all but proven he's incompetent to run the country.

Funny you mention Major as Cameron is the biggest wallflower since him probably, I struggle to see anything at all his rule has brought to the country apart from the word 'chillax' the poncy prat.

His own advisors were telling him years ago his targets for immigration were unrealistic under present circumstances. The mans no idea what to do and is just in a panic now.

Farce.

[den]

That is not totally true. IF somebody from the EU has a valid passport and the correct paper work, unless there is a reason of security, they can not be refused entry, so there is limited control on numbers from the EU compared to the control from non -EU countries

https://fullfact.org/europe/immigration-eu-referendum/

Both EU and NON EU migration would have to reduce to hit the Governments targets

https://fullfact.org/immigration/governments-immigration-target-does-eu-immigration-matter/

My point was, that if the numbers are currently too high, the government can reduce migration NOW, by restricting non EU immigrants.

The vote has nothing to do with the future of this country in Cameron's eyes.

Cameron called the vote for 2 reasons . The first was to try to lure Ukip voters over to the Tories before the last election and the second was to try to unite the Tory party because the Europe issue was threatening to divide it in the same way as in the 1990s under Major.

Cameron deserves to fall on his own sword whichever way the vote goes. A Brexit vote and his position will be untenable and a Remain vote will see the right wing wing of the party (which is furious with him anyway for backing In) will force him out.

Then we can all look forward to Gove or Johnson in power. For those who follow the money, the bookies say the odds are shortening on Remain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-bookies-have-always-made-a-remain-vote-favourite-and-the-odds-continue-to-shorten-a7093971.html

My "no" comment was me agreeing with you, that Cameron couldn't survive a leave majority.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Vote Leave have reportedly flown a plane with a banner over the Jox Cox memorial location. Classy...

[perthblue02]

My point was, that if the numbers are currently too high, the government can reduce migration NOW, by restricting non EU immigrants.

Yes they can restrict NON EU migrants but currently can not restrict EU migrants who meet the requirements they need for entry, there is no upper limit,

So in theory they reduce non EU migration to the UK to zero to meet numbers but can not stop x number of EU migrants taking their places if they so wish. Would have to be a serious problem in one or two countries for it to happen but not out of the question.

The UK are already working on making it harder with Visa requirements from some NON EU countries, Australia for one

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/australiauk-bond-under-threat-from-britains-discriminatory-visa-and-migration-policies-dfat-report/news-story/d93f1ed2ca71ba961eb71c4bf5b2cf5c

[perthblue02]

Vote Leave have reportedly flown a plane with a banner over the Jox Cox memorial location. Classy...

Disgusting and utterly stupid if correct, only seen the metro report so far .

Bit of a blow to the thought that Britain has to remain in to change the EU that Cameron has been using.

There will be no further renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU after the referendum, European Commission president Jean Claude Juncker has said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-reform-uk-brexit-vote-live-remain-jean-claude-juncker-european-union-a7095601.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-juncker-idUKKCN0Z81G4

[Baz]

Puzzled by the line-ups last night, no Cameron or Osborne, although Davidson did well.

No idea who the grinning granny was for leave, but even Dimbleby got fed up with her not answering the questions put.

Boris was very quiet for the majority of the programme and looked like someone who didn't have many answers other than 'project fear'. His closing statement was by far his best part, and got a good reaction, but I think most neutrals on the whole would be swayed more by the remain answers.

[den]

Yes they can restrict NON EU migrants but currently can not restrict EU migrants who meet the requirements they need for entry, there is no upper limit,

So in theory they reduce non EU migration to the UK to zero to meet numbers but can not stop x number of EU migrants taking their places if they so wish. Would have to be a serious problem in one or two countries for it to happen but not out of the question.

The UK are already working on making it harder with Visa requirements from some NON EU countries, Australia for one

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/australiauk-bond-under-threat-from-britains-discriminatory-visa-and-migration-policies-dfat-report/news-story/d93f1ed2ca71ba961eb71c4bf5b2cf5c

We don't have to leave the EU to reduce immigration then. That's my point Perth.

[yoda]

Disgusting and utterly stupid if correct, only seen the metro report so far .

Bit of a blow to the thought that Britain has to remain in to change the EU that Cameron has been using.

There will be no further renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU after the referendum, European Commission president Jean Claude Juncker has said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-reform-uk-brexit-vote-live-remain-jean-claude-juncker-european-union-a7095601.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-juncker-idUKKCN0Z81G4

That's the un elected President sounding off. If the UK leaves there won't be an EU anyway

[perthblue02]

We don't have to leave the EU to reduce immigration then. That's my point Perth.

Whilst in the EU Britain can NOT restrict the number of migrants from EU countries entering the country. So in theory yes by making it impossible for NON EU migrants to enter,, it may reduce, but it may also rise with an increase in EU migrants, hence can not be controlled.

To control both numbers Britain would have to be out of the EU and change the policy for EU migration into the UK to the same for NON EU Migration.

[yoda]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/31896584/eu-turkey-to-open-new-membership-talks-sources/#page1

Talks with Turkey

[Amo]

When both the national and local newspapers are telling me to vote 'Remain', it just convinces me even more to vote Out.

[Baz]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/31896584/eu-turkey-to-open-new-membership-talks-sources/#page1

Talks with Turkey

A British diplomatic source says.......wonder which way that mysterious person is voting.

[yoda]

A British diplomatic source says.......wonder which way that mysterious person is voting.

Does it matter ?

[gumboots]

When both the national and local newspapers are telling me to vote 'Remain', it just convinces me even more to vote Out.

most of what I've seen is telling me to vote out. I'll ignore everyone else and make my own mind up. If I were the only one voting in and everyone else was voting out or vice versa, I'd still do what I wanted.

[Gav]

Eh? wasn't the Scottish leave campaign built on lies about how rich their economy would be?

Glasgow riots - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/glasgow-riots-footage-shows-yes-and-no-voters-in-running-street-battles-in-disorder-after-pro-union-9745771.html

No it wasn't, it was about much more than that Biddy and a fine example of democracy, the turnout alone was 85%!

[Biddy]

The turnout was indeed fantastic but the rhetoric and lies on both sides were nearly as bad as this referendum.

How quickly people forget.

[yoda]

The turnout was indeed fantastic but the rhetoric and lies on both sides were nearly as bad as this referendum.

How quickly people forget.

Well the jocks are certainly keeping quiet about the oil tax black hole that the rest of the UK is subsidising.

[Gav]

The turnout was indeed fantastic but the rhetoric and lies on both sides were nearly as bad as this referendum.

How quickly people forget.

We'll agree to disagree, it was about far more than just Oil, the turnout tells you that.

[Baz]

Does it matter ?

It matters if it's factual, or a placed story by the leave campaign.

[yoda]

It matters if it's factual, or a placed story by the leave campaign.

I meant does it matter who leaked it, it is an open secret that talks have been taking place anyway

[Baz]

I meant does it matter who leaked it, it is an open secret that talks have been taking place anyway

No doesn't matter who, just if its true.