[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[den]

He's not been in post 12 months yet Biddy?!

He'll never be a leader Gav.

He's just about old labour values of human rights, workers rights and public ownership. Not that there's anything wrong with that, there isn't, - but the country needs a leader with the vision to move us forwards in a modern world. Someone with new ideas, not old ones. Someone who believes in taking business with him, while at the same time making sure that all levels of society benefit from any progress. The problem is, that task just got a whole lot harder. I do believe though, that the country would back that person whichever party he came from, - but that man definitely isn't Corbyn.

[Gav]

I'm not saying he's the man to win an election, but it seems you and the few others are advocating that we just ignore the fact he was voted in with a massive mandate by the party?

Lets just forget democracy? because on this occassion its not working!

Thats just not right den, regardless of the circumstances.

[Guest]

As I understand it, it will take a minimum of two years for the UK to exit the EU from the point when we enact Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which some predict will happen within the next few weeks. Bearing in mind that the UK must still abide by EU law until it has left the EU, and that it cannot have a say in an EU law-making as soon as Article 50 is enacted, I have two questions.

1. Is it possible that we could actually now receive more immigrants over the next two years than previous years? I wonder what the effect of a countdown to the UK door shutting would have on any EU citizens who were contemplating moving here, in the hope that once the door is shut, they will somehow be allowed to stay indefinitely because they were in the UK before it left the EU.
   
2. Is it possible for the EU to pass laws over the next couple of years that would, in the meantime, give the UK bad deals on certain things? For example, passing a law whereby the UK fishing quota is reduced, that the UK must accept more migrants, that tariffs are increased, etc.

I have no idea how this works, but perhaps someone here can clarify.

[jim mk2]

Stocks around the world have fallen sharply today - just the start of a downward correction as markets adjust to the new uncertainty. Sterling is at a 30-year low.

Uk house builders shares have remarkably fallen 20 to 25 per cent in one day in anticipation of the the housing market entering a substantial correction. Estate agents around the country are reporting deals have been called off or falling through as buyers pull out.

Lower housing activity usually leads to lower economic activity so I wouldn't be surprised to see falling GDP and a possible recession by the end of the year. Manufacturers will struggle to make headway with all the uncertainty about new trade and tariff rules

So day one of Brexit and everyone who has investments, pensions, savings is already substantially worse off .

It's a new era all right that will leave the country poorer and weaker.

[den]

I'm not saying he's the man to win an election, but it seems you and the few others are advocating that we just ignore the fact he was voted in with a massive mandate by the party?

Lets just forget democracy? because on this occassion its not working!

Thats just not right den, regardless of the circumstances.

No, I'm not ignoring the fact he was elected Gav, I just believe the biggest mistake Milliband made was giving a leadership vote to anyone willing to pay a couple of quid. Look at how it turned out and look at how difficult it might be to replace him - even if he were to lose a confidence vote.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Slimey creatures will swarm from everywhere now looking to use all this for their own personal gain

The odious Sturgeon and the deplorable Sinn Fein rubbing their hands together.

Anyone who based their vote on the immigration issue alone must be dead from the waist up....and there are plenty.

[ABBEY]

He's not been in post 12 months yet Biddy?!

He's an Ira sympathising snivelling coward .

[Stuart]

We need a strong leader now to take this country forward. Cameron has come out and showed that he has no spine and isn't a real leader. Others have shown their true colours. We are better off without these people messing things up behind closed doors.

I also hope we aren't going to keep hearing from Remain-backing commentators belly-aching about how bad things are and how it's all going to be terrible. Right now the majority are panicking and a minority are currently making themselves even more rich - because of that self-fuelled panic.

We need to grasp the opportunities that present themselves and be proud that we stood up to the bullies. Sure, we've just been knocked to the ground and are sporting a black eye but we need to get back up. Stronger.

[Norbert Rassragr]

I didn't have time this morning to give a detailed view, so here is what I think.

1. I think we'll be more of a puppet for the financial sector and the largest companies, as we'll throw money at them and dilute workers' rights in order to stop them from leaving. Therefore the stock brokers, hedge funds and so on will build a big house of cards as they did before 2008.

2. the population will increase as pensioners in Spain will return when they realise the European health insurance card doesn't work, and they have to apply for a visa.

3. The Tories will be even more ruthless and will go further in their efforts to price the working class out of higher education and the courts, cut benefits and workers rights. I think Teresa May will be the next PM.

4. Corbyn will be forced out, and some weak as p__s Blairite nodding dog will return Labour to the Tory left.

5. The working class will still vote UKIP in protest of points 3 and 4, but will be too thick to realise they're voting for the same sort of thing.

My ideal result would have had the percentages reversed, as it would have meant that Cameron's position was unstable, but not fatal and a civil war would break out in the Tory party. In Europe, the close call would have jolted the EU establishment into making the changes I discussed with Yoda yesterday, in combination with the revival of the far right across Europe. It could be a liberating, invigorating decision, but I expect it not to be. I expect the Tories to break the NHS sell whatever they can to their Eton mates in the City or to China, and things to get worse for us 'normal' people.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Corbyn might appeal to Labour voters but that base isn't big enough to win an election, as usual it's the large number voters in the center ground who don't have a strong affinity to any party that decide elections. Labour members may be happy that they have an old school Marxist running the show but it's making them unelectable, no wonder the Lab MP's want him out as they know you should be in politics to try and achieve something and create changes not become a protest party.

If Lab had any sense they would boot Corbyn, elect a fresh faced leader with no ties to the old regimes and move the party to the center. The likelihood is that the Conservative Party is now going to lurch to the right and elect an absolute buffoon as leader in the background of several years of economic turmoil so there is space there to take over that center ground and become electable again.

[Husky]

I'm quite proud that the British people weren't brainwashed by the government IN propaganda.

I have been sent about 20 'IN' pieces of propaganda through the post in the past few weeks and I had absolutely nothing from the 'OUT' campaign. I take it it was similar for everyone else.

[Norbert Rassragr]

There's being a centre party, and being a bunch of no-marks though. Blair is/was a massive crook who was happy to let people die for money, and Milliband was just feeble. I'd like someone about halfway between Corbyn and let's say Cooper for the sake of argument. However, the working classes will still read The Sun, and vote for a good bumming by tax dodgers, spivs and posh boys.

[koi]

So the FTSE actually ends the week with a GAIN. BBC were all over the drop this morning, not really so keen a reporting an impressive recovery.

[yoda]

So the FTSE actually ends the week with a GAIN. BBC were all over the drop this morning, not really so keen a reporting an impressive recovery.

Change is good

[Baz]

Farage "we now need a plan in order to negotiate for Britain"

Redwood saying we can wait Months or years until we need to give notice to leave.

Gove saying we need to start informal talks now, then give notice and start formal talks - and we need to review and decide which of our laws tied up in European law we want to keep/ lose / change.

PM resigns - doesnt enact the legislation and says the Tories should look to have a new leader in 4 months time - but doesn't think he's the person to start the negotiations- so effectively the country and EU is on hold until that point.

So, theres absolutely no plan.

[yoda]

Farage "we now need a plan in order to negotiate for Britain"

Redwood saying we can wait Months or years until we need to give notice to leave.

Gove saying we need to start informal talks now, then give notice and start formal talks - and we need to review and decide which of our laws tied up in European law we want to keep/ lose / change.

PM resigns - doesnt enact the legislation and says the Tories should look to have a new leader in 4 months time - but doesn't think he's the person to start the negotiations- so effectively the country and EU is on hold until that point.

So, theres absolutely no plan.

No plan because of the arrogance of the government and remain camp, at least Carney had planned for it, FTSE up on the week

[Gav]

Mr Junker says he wants Britain to invoke Article 50 within weeks, we don't have a plan, so this could be the first Brexit v Eu standoff

[yoda]

Mr Junker says he wants Britain to invoke Article 50 within weeks, we don't have a plan, so this could be the first Brexit v Eu standoff

Not sure what Junker can do about it

[matt83]

I genuinely wasn't that fussed about result this morning was expecting a remain landslide and status quo business as usual. But as the day has gone on I'm quite buoyant. I was even surprised my folks voted out as they're conservative with a small c and don't like change.

From what bits I listened to (while concentrating checking cricket score on phone) they feel betrayed by the 1975 referendum of joining merely a common market when it's now this present EU monstrosity and was on it's way to morphing into a United States of Europe with a central federal bank (no doubt in Germany).

Didn't know much about the 1975 referendum but came across this from labours Peter shore and it was very applicable to today well yesterday:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vuXmM61XD2s

[joey_big_nose]

Can somebody explain why London voted IN while other parts of the country voted out? I would like to have an insider's view, I would be thankful.

Wealthy international city with an international population and outlook. Others like Cambridge, Oxford, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester all voted in. Simple as that really.

[yoda]

Wealthy international city with an international population and outlook. Others like Cambridge, Oxford, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester all voted in. Simple as that really.

Is there anything more international than trading with the whole world ?

[Gav]

Not sure what Junker can do about it

No me neither, be interesting to see how all this plays out.

[yoda]

No me neither, be interesting to see how all this plays out.

l

As far as I can tell, there is no time scale on invoking article 50, over sight by the EU ?

[Baz]

No plan because of the arrogance of the government and remain camp, at least Carney had planned for it, FTSE up on the week

Surely the onus was on the leave campaign to have a strategy agreed with the PM as part of their plan. At the very least to have it agreed amongst themselves.

[yoda]

Surely the onus was on the leave campaign to have a strategy agreed with the PM as part of their plan. At the very least to have it agreed amongst themselves.

The government has the responsibility of running the country, they held the arrogant position that it was a formality that we would stay and threatened all and sundry who did not agree.

Buck stops at the top