[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Paul]

A bizarre and hugely hypocritical comment from one of the most vocal posters against boycotting Ewood.

I have never said I was against boycotting Ewood. People can do what they like. I still go and I've explained why numerous times.

We will have the same rights to trade with the EU as the rest of the world and under the same conditions.The club is doomed,other states may well elect to leave (We are already seeing the beginnings of this) but whatever the outcome,your assertion that we will only be allowed trade with the EU if we continue to allow free movement, etc etc is false and misleading

It's not misleading. Look at the arrangements other non EU member but European states have. Why should the EU treat the UK differently?

No one answers this other than talking about German cars etc. Do we really believe the EU will protect the UK over the member states?

[Gav]

Lets not forget Labour members and the unions voted for him not the Public.

Like I said no plans for Future. IMO, He doesnt have a clue what to do

Anyone can join the labour party and vote Chaddy.

He was voted in with 60% of the vote last time, a massive mandate, and despite all the blustering from people that have decided democracy doesn't work in labour leadership campaigns and EU campaigns its not going to change a thing.

Corbyn isn't going to get the labour party elected in 2020, nobody in that party will, they're so out of touch with the electorate its got to be a 10yr plan, and if we have a few years of honest party politics from Corbyn I'm happy with that.

Just read that Benn thinks Corbyn didn't do enough in the referendum, who led the referendum for Labour? Hillary Benn!

At a time when the Tories are in turmoil that last thing the Labour Party should be doing is imploding.....

[Stuart]

I have never said I was against boycotting Ewood. People can do what they like. I still go and I've explained why numerous times.

Very different from what your previous post implied, Paul.

It's one thing belittling folks who wanted out of the EU, it's another to imply that attending Rovers fans are weak for not acting out against Venkys.

[Baz]

I think that the result has to be accepted, and we have to move forward from this point. I cannot see, even if it is law, Scotland not allowing the legislation to be passed for the referendum outcome to be enacted.

Given that we now have no PM, there are massive splits in the Tory party, the Labour party is in an even worse position, and we have seemingly no plans in place, there needs in my opinion a cross party coalition of our top people to come together as a team in order to negotiate the best deal, and least disruptive exit from the EU. Whether this in effect becomes a new and temporary government department, is unclear, but I feel it would be unfair for just the Tory party to have the right to decide what laws we take, review or dismiss. We don't need the uncertainty of a snap general election at this point as others are calling for.

[Al]

I have never said I was against boycotting Ewood. People can do what they like. I still go and I've explained why numerous times.

It's not misleading. Look at the arrangements other non EU member but European states have. Why should the EU treat the UK differently?

No one answers this other than talking about German cars etc. Do we really believe the EU will protect the UK over the member states?

We are not asking for protection. Just to trade fairly like the rest of the world. Why should our geographical proximity make us different to Australia or India?

[chaddyrovers]

Anyone can join the labour party and vote Chaddy.

He was voted in with 60% of the vote last time, a massive mandate, and despite all the blustering from people that have decided democracy doesn't work in labour leadership campaigns and EU campaigns its not going to change a thing.

Corbyn isn't going to get the labour party elected in 2020, nobody in that party will, they're so out of touch with the electorate its got to be a 10yr plan, and if we have a few years of honest party politics from Corbyn I'm happy with that.

Just read that Benn thinks Corbyn didn't do enough in the referendum, who led the referendum for Labour? Hillary Benn!

I wouldnt vote Labour with Corbyn has leader. Could you imagine him leader of this country is the real question?

A poll in the Sunday Mail suggestion 29% of Labour votes in the last election will not vote Labour in 2020.

Labour need 20 years plan.

If Benn was leader of Labour then It would give me a decision to make.

Big question for me is who The Tory party elect as leader/PM.

[Amo]

How could you vote for a man called Hilary?

[den]

Its early days, signing petitions and having a thrombosis isn't going to change the result ultra.

Lets see how this plays out.

People have opinions Gav and will say how they feel.

My opinion is that the leave voters have fallen for the biggest collection of lies imaginable. None of what they were promised will likely come to fruition and they must surely realise that already. I think they fell for a load of sound bites that meant nothing. The country in my opinion, will be worse off economically - that was always obvious. We've got absolutely no influence at all now in the decisions of the major Europen countries, how that can be good I'll never know. I feel for the younger people who voted by a 75% margin to stay in Europe. They deserved to be given the chance to be part of a country that wanted to be outward looking and expansive, working with the rest of Europe rather than shying away from it.

Sounds like Nicola Sturgeon has said Scotland could block the EU exit by voting against it? The country is in turmoil. We have no effective government, the Tories are split, the Labour Party is split ( good thing if they get rid of Corbyn), Scotland wants out, Jobs will be lost, inflation will rise, the pound has dropped, we have a negative credit rating.

Still, we can stop some of those nasty foreigners coming over here, even if we don't actually do it.

[Guest]

How could you vote for a man called Hilary?

Indeed. It's a bit like taking posts seriously from someone who questions if the holocaust happened and trivialises someone's death during a political campaign.

[otto man]

I have never said I was against boycotting Ewood. People can do what they like. I still go and I've explained why numerous times.

It's not misleading. Look at the arrangements other non EU member but European states have. Why should the EU treat the UK differently?

No one answers this other than talking about German cars etc. Do we really believe the EU will protect the UK over the member states?

What other non EU member European states have agreed to is irrelevant. We are not a part of mainland Europe and can( and should ) negotiate the same terms as non European states.

[Al]

People have opinions Gav and will say how they feel.

My opinion is that the leave voters have fallen for the biggest collection of lies imaginable. None of what they were promised will likely come to fruition and they must surely realise that already. I think they fell for a load of sound bites that meant nothing. The country in my opinion, will be worse off economically - that was always obvious. We've got absolutely no influence at all now in the decisions of the major Europen countries, how that can be good I'll never know. I feel for the younger people who voted by a 75% margin to stay in Europe. They deserved to be given the chance to be part of a country that wanted to be outward looking and expansive, working with the rest of Europe rather than shying away from it.

Sounds like Nicola Sturgeon has said Scotland could block the EU exit by voting against it? The country is in turmoil. We have no effective government, the Tories are split, the Labour Party is split ( good thing if they get rid of Corbyn), Scotland wants out, Jobs will be lost, inflation will rise, the pound has dropped, we have a negative credit rating.

Still, we can stop some of those nasty foreigners coming over here, even if we don't actually do it.

The Scottish bitch can't block the exit. It has been democratically voted for and if politicians try to change it they must be voted out by calling a General Election.

[Stuart]

Sturgeon now believing she can veto Britain leaving the EU.

Let me get this straight...

Scotland give their people the option to leave the UK. They opted to stay.

The UK (including millions of Scottish people, by the way) voted to leave the EU. (If every Scottish person had wanted to be in the EU then we still would be).

The leader of the SNP believes that it is the right thing for all Scottidh people to only consider a majority of Scots and not recognise the majority in the UK because it suits her agenda.

This is a dictatorship, no?

What would happen if we remained in the EU and they vote for something that Scotland doesn't like? Would she be looking for loopholes with that?

Why is nobody crying about a nasty nationalist agenda? You can be damned sure they would be if it was an English one.

[Gav]

People have opinions Gav and will say how they feel.

My opinion is that the leave voters have fallen for the biggest collection of lies imaginable. None of what they were promised will likely come to fruition and they must surely realise that already. I think they fell for a load of sound bites that meant nothing. The country in my opinion, will be worse off economically - that was always obvious. We've got absolutely no influence at all now in the decisions of the major Europen countries, how that can be good I'll never know. I feel for the younger people who voted by a 75% margin to stay in Europe. They deserved to be given the chance to be part of a country that wanted to be outward looking and expansive, working with the rest of Europe rather than shying away from it.

Sounds like Nicola Sturgeon has said Scotland could block the EU exit by voting against it? The country is in turmoil. We have no effective government, the Tories are split, the Labour Party is split ( good thing if they get rid of Corbyn), Scotland wants out, Jobs will be lost, inflation will rise, the pound has dropped, we have a negative credit rating.

Still, we can stop some of those nasty foreigners coming over here, even if we don't actually do it.

People can say how they feel all they like den but petitions to try and reverse the democratic process is pathetic, undemocratic, similar to the ousting of Corbyn by a bunch of career politicians worried that those top jobs are slipping away whilst he's the leader.

As for younger people, i read yesterday that only 35% bothered to vote overall, so maybe 75% voted to remain, but the total number that voted was much smaller than expected, doesn't mean they're irrelevant, but if more had cared about the result, it could have been different

The rest of your post is speculation and conjecture, much like both campaigns for remain and leave.....

[ultrablue]

Sturgeon now believing she can veto Britain leaving the EU.

Let me get this straight...

Scotland give their people the option to leave the UK. They opted to stay.

The UK (including millions of Scottish people, by the way) voted to leave the EU. (If every Scottish person had wanted to be in the EU then we still would be).

The leader of the SNP believes that it is the right thing for all Scottidh people to only consider a majority of Scots and not recognise the majority in the UK because it suits her agenda.

This is a dictatorship, no?

What would happen if we remained in the EU and they vote for something that Scotland doesn't like? Would she be looking for loopholes with that?

Why is nobody crying about a nasty nationalist agenda? You can be damned sure they would be if it was an English one.

The rest of the UK will not tolerate the Scottish blocking the Brexit. Of course this is exactly what the SNP want; an intolerable union. One of the entirely forseen circumstances of the referendum.

[Mike E]

Yes I agree completely but there's a problem here. EU member states have to comply with the single market rules which allow for two key points, the EU negotiates trade deals on its members behalf and individual members are not permitted to make other deals. These are two of the arguments against EU membership.

I'm 100% in agreement the EU will wish to trade with us. The issue is the rules. No one country can make a trade deal with the UK without breaking EU rules. The UK has effectively rejected the EU single market rules. We are though in the weaker position meaning if we want trade we will have to accept:

Free movement of labour

Pay in to the EU coffers

Comply with EU legislation

I've yet to see any argument has to how any single EU member will trade with us outside of the single market. I don't think there is one.

This was the only legitimate reason to votell Leave:

Still trade with the EU on the same (or similar) terms, BUT be free to trade with other countries. In fact, that may be the compromise that is reached.

[den]

People can say how they feel all they like den but petitions to try and reverse the democratic process is pathetic, undemocratic, similar to the ousting of Corbyn by a bunch of career politicians worried that those top jobs are slipping away whilst he's the leader.

As for younger people, i read yesterday that only 35% bothered to vote overall, so maybe 75% voted to remain, but the total number that voted was much smaller than expected, doesn't mean they're irrelevant, but if more had cared about the result, it could have been different

The rest of your post is speculation and conjecture, much like both campaigns for remain and leave.....

I haven't signed that petition nor will I do. The result has to be accepted, but as Tim Farron has just said, he doesn't accept it was the right decision and will continue to argue that working with other countries is a far better option than isolation.

[Stuart]

Still, we can stop some of those nasty foreigners coming over here, even if we don't actually do it.

You have just called the majority of people in this country racists, den.

It's the boiling down of the Leave vote to being narrow-mind bigotry that has forced the vote over the line IMO.

The only thing more stupid would have been to blame Jordan Rhodes.

This increasingly bitter line that you and others are peddling about uneducated, ignorant bigots is creating deeper division amongst communities. Even if the SNP get their way, this country has been exposed as being split into three: London, Scotland, and the rest.

UK politics has needed shaking up for years. If Remain had won we would have been hearing their MPs climb down from untruths. The fact is that nobody has any faith in any of the politicians. Certainly no faith in them to stand up for Britain even from within the EU. It's just fat cats looking out for the other fat cats and claiming their expenses. Junkets to Pune, sorry, Brussels to be fed lies, laughed at behind our back and continuing to harm our club, sorry, country. Even our politicians don't have faith in our politicians if the Labour breakup is anything to go by.

This has been kept under a simmering pot lid for years and it's finally boiling over. The winners will not be those with the biggest mops but those who can turn the heat down.

Calm heads required. Working together. Not poisonous politicians looking out for their own selfish interests.

[gumboots]

Yes, Farron and the Lib Dems have come out of this with much credit.

he carried his own constituency with him, one of the few rural constituencies not to vote out. Seems a straightforward, "honest" guy if the is such a thing as an honest politician

[den]

You have just called the majority of people in this country racists, den.

It's the boiling down of the Leave vote to being narrow-mind bigotry that has forced the vote over the line IMO.

The only thing more stupid would have been to blame Jordan Rhodes.

This increasingly bitter line that you and others are peddling about uneducated, ignorant bigots is creating deeper division amongst communities. Even if the SNP get their way, this country has been exposed as being split into three: London, Scotland, and the rest.

UK politics has needed shaking up for years. If Remain had won we would have been hearing their MPs climb down from untruths. The fact is that nobody has any faith in any of the politicians. Certainly no faith in them to stand up for Britain even from within the EU. It's just fat cats looking out for the other fat cats and claiming their expenses. Junkets to Pune, sorry, Brussels to be fed lies, laughed at behind our back and continuing to harm our club, sorry, country. Even our politicians don't have faith in our politicians if the Labour breakup is anything to go by.

Don't talk crap.

[gumboots]

I spoke today with a woman who has not stopped crying since she realised Leave had won, and she voted Leave. She said that she really should have abstained or that there should have been a place on the ballot paper for completely undecided. She told me she didn't think there was any possibility leave would win and just wanted to protest. I think there are a lot of people thinking like that now. I wouldn't sign a petition for a revote either. The people have spoken. However, I do think it shows there should have been a requirement for a clearer mandate than simply first past the post for something as big as this

[chaddyrovers]

7 MP's from Labour shadow cabinet have resigned so far. Still more to come

[Stuart]

Don't talk crap.

Classy as always.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Yes I appreciate what that will do to Spain's economy but are you seriously arguing people who voted to Leave will then boycott to Spain to pressurise a trade deal which favours the UK?

Let's face it Rovers supporters largely won't boycott what's happening in their own backyard.

Not at all - it is a ridiculous suggestion - but so are some of the comments about the EU bleeding us dry if we leave. The point is, alot of EU countries rely on the UK, more than we do on them. The EU can't really play nasty or most members could potentially shoot themselves in the foot.

As some others have said, I can't imagine life will be massively different. We will agree a fair trade deal, make reciprical agreements unilaterally with the likes of Spain etc, probably still have to allow freedom of movement. The main 'win' will be resting power from Brussels back into our own hands.

Also, re Scotland - wouldn't they have to be voted into the EU if they dissolve from the UK? That would put them at the back of the EU line.

[den]

Classy as always.

You said I'd branded half the country racist - which is crap. I have intentionally not used that word, you used it. The leave campaign was based almost entirely on immigration. Immigration means foreign people coming into the country. Many people don't like foreigners coming over here Stuart - I know loads of 'em, so do you. They continually blame those immigrants for the countries woes. The leave campaign attracted a lot of those people with those views. Farage plays/played on that with his campaign/s and posters.

[yoda]

OK, this is what is going to happen- nothing except a hugely damaging period of uncertainty which will almost certainly swing a big majority behind remaining in the EU.

The one simple reason for the Brexit position disappearing is that the Leave campaign was one huge set of lies which is already 50% unravelled just two days after the winning result was announced.

Those of you who voted Brexit simply are not and cannot get what you thought you were voting for...

Anne McElvoy in the Mail on Sunday says pro-Brexit voters who wanted an end to free movement might not get their wish:

Less than an hour after Cameron announced he would stand down, I interviewed Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary. He knows the realities and constraints of our EU dealings inside out.

The price of free trade access to Europes large single market will, he told me, be retaining freedom of movement with only cosmetic tweaks. Without that commitment the EU has no reason to keep trade with Britain free of barriers that will do us severe economic damage. That might not be what the jubilant Brexiteers want to hear this weekend. It is nonetheless true.

So freedom of movement for EU citizens will remain- the cost of leaving the Single European Market is just too high. Boris and Gove are of this opinion- they disgracefully conned leave voters it was possible to cherry pick the single market and it isn't.

Farage has let the Tories off the hook from providing £350m a week extra to the NHS by telling us all that this was always a huge lie.

If you still think the UK is leaving the EU and want the definitive on what happens next- this is the authoritive answer:

http://CBP-7632.pdf

In a nutshell, unless Britain is expelled from the EU by the other members, it is all but impossible to draft the legislation for Westminster to legislate to apply for Section 50 under the Lisbon Treaty.

I hadn't realised this but the Government of Scotland Act in effect gives Scotland a veto over it- Westminster will have to vote to repeal whole sections of Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish devolution BEFORE it can propose the legislation to leave the EU.

This Conservative Government will fall and quite probably split, a fate facing Labour following the sacking of Benn this morning. However, the fixed term Parliament legislation is as likely to result in a zombie Tory Government until 2020 as an early General Election.

The de facto reality as we all wake up this morning is Nicola Sturgeon is single most powerful politician in the UK. She knows that she has a united country and is very cleverly playing her hand.

Quite probably the second most powerful politician in Britain this morning is Sadiq Khan who is going to see London hammered by the economic consequences of Brexit before any other part of the country suffers. He will be forced to take positions by the reality on the ground in London before the internal turmoil of the Tories and Labour is resolved.

Meantime I advise everybody to find out where exactly their grandparents were born...

Have you had anymore tantrums today and told anyone how much redundancy they are entitled to?