[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Husky]

This increasingly bitter line that you and others are peddling about uneducated, ignorant bigots is creating deeper division amongst communities. Even if the SNP get their way, this country has been exposed as being split into three: London, Scotland, and the rest.

Hypocrites the lot of them.

Spouting complete nonsense including views bordering on fascism.

[chaddyrovers]

8 labours MP's now have resigned from Shadow cabinet

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Den, the youth of Britain learnt a lesson this week. Your vote is important and never take things for granted. Hopefully, they will not make the same mistakes in the future.

On the other hand. If, as indicated, 75% of the 36% bothered to vote would would remain- this would mean in real terms 27% of the country's youth actually wanted to remain.

You could possibly argue that the youth that did vote would predominantly be the college/Uni brigade.

If the more dissafected youth bothered to vote, it isn't inconceivable that the youth vote may have looked alot different.

[Gav]

I haven't signed that petition nor will I do. The result has to be accepted, but as Tim Farron has just said, he doesn't accept it was the right decision and will continue to argue that working with other countries is a far better option than isolation.

No problem with people not agreeing with the decision den, its the ones trying to change the result I have an issue with.

As for immigration, its been obvious to everyone other than the ones rooted in the Westminster bubble that immigration is a major issue for people in this country. Whilst arrogant Labour and Tory MP's think the rise of UKIP is just a 'fad' "it'll blow over" they've been well and truly sent a message that immigration is the most important issue in the country today and they need to address peoples concerns, not sweep them under the table.

[otto man]

You said I'd branded half the country racist - which is crap. I have intentionally not used that word, you used it. The leave campaign was based almost entirely on immigration. Immigration means foreign people coming into the country. Many people don't like foreigners coming over here Stuart - I know loads of 'em, so do you. They continually blame those immigrants for the countries woes. The leave campaign attracted a lot of those people with those views. Farage plays/played on that with his campaign/s and posters.

What a load of crap!

[yoda]

No problem with people not agreeing with the decision den, its the ones trying to change the result I have an issue with.

As for immigration, its been obvious to everyone other than the ones rooted in the Westminster bubble that immigration is a major issue for people in this country. Whilst arrogant Labour and Tory MP's think the rise of UKIP is just a 'fad' "it'll blow over" they've been well and truly sent a message that immigration is the most important issue in the country today and they need to address peoples concerns, not sweep them under the table.

Spot on GAV, it is embarrassing watching them.

If this was a game of poker, I would say the EU has just blinked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36630877

She has said other things today as well along the lines of the UK politicians may need to come back to us with new proposals !

[K-Hod]

Gav, I couldn't find the post- but on your point re Corbyn being democratically elected, that may be, but loads have now resigned from the cabinet. If it seems like everyone else is the problem, it's probably you (Corbyn).

[Biddy]

Corbyn was indeed democratially elected, but wasn't there widespread talk at the time that TONS of conservatives were signing up to the labour party (£3 is a bargain) just to make sure he got elected as everyone from the outset knew he'd never win a general election.

He might have a big mandate but is it really from true labour supporters?

[Gav]

Gav, I couldn't find the post- but on your point re Corbyn being democratically elected, that may be, but loads have now resigned from the cabinet. If it seems like everyone else is the problem, it's probably you (Corbyn).

Democracy K-Hod, he was voted into post by a massive majority, beat the people around him by a country mile.

Whats the point of voting, whats the point of democracy if we're just going to overrule the public/voting system because career MP's don't agree with the outcome?

Its a disgrace, these people are public servants on £100k a year with expenses, voted in by the public, and now telling the public they're clueless and we're going to do what the hell we want

No wonder nobody votes these days.

[K-Hod]

Corbyn was indeed democratially elected, but wasn't there widespread talk at the time that TONS of conservatives were signing up to the labour party (£3 is a bargain) just to make sure he got elected as everyone from the outset knew he'd never win a general election.

He might have a big mandate but is it really from true labour supporters?

Exactly as I recall it Biddy. Some on here even admitted doing so, which I felt is embarrassing really, but people can obviously spend their brass as they see fit....

[Gav]

Corbyn was indeed democratially elected, but wasn't there widespread talk at the time that TONS of conservatives were signing up to the labour party (£3 is a bargain) just to make sure he got elected as everyone from the outset knew he'd never win a general election.

He might have a big mandate but is it really from true labour supporters?

Its a very weak argument Biddy, but you're correct I'm sure plenty of Tories registered to vote, but not enough to make a difference, he won by a country mile.

[Amo]

Indeed. It's a bit like taking posts seriously from someone who questions if the holocaust happened and trivialises someone's death during a political campaign.

Truth hurt?

[jim mk2]

Here's something to look forward to thanks to the Brexit vote.

In a note to clients sent today, Unicredit group chief economist Erik Nielsen says he is "very worried" about the UK's political and economic outlook, saying he expects that the new climate of uncertainty will " bring the UK in – or to the brink of – recession next year."

The weaker pound has already made the UK poorer in real terms relative to other countries.

But in the medium to longer term, if UK GDP ends up some 5%-8% lower than otherwise forecast in 10-15 years, and if the pound depreciates by 10-15% in trade-weighted terms, then UK per capita income, which last year was at par with that of France, (about 10% below Germany and some 15% above Italy and Spain), will end up some 15% below France in about ten years, or broadly at levels like in Southern Europe.

So instead of being the 5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd biggest in Europe we'll be on a par with Greece in 15 years time.

There's a fine legacy for our children and grandchildren.

[Stuart]

You said I'd branded half the country racist - which is crap. I have intentionally not used that word, you used it. The leave campaign was based almost entirely on immigration. Immigration means foreign people coming into the country. Many people don't like foreigners coming over here Stuart - I know loads of 'em, so do you. They continually blame those immigrants for the countries woes. The leave campaign attracted a lot of those people with those views. Farage plays/played on that with his campaign/s and posters.

The Leave vote wasn't won by those blaming foreigners though (the new PC way of saying racist). The only way it was is if 52% of the electorate are racist.

[yoda]

Well well, potential fraud with the petition, also pointing out the bleeding obvious that you can't change the rules retrospectively

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

so nothing to see on this one, time for the wobbly jellies to move on me thinks.

Queen Sturgeon is also going to get a knock back, matters of national importance and security have not been devolved, they are the remit of Westminster.

The EU will also knock her back, she will be told that Scotland cannot apply to the EU as Scotland is not an independent nation, come back when you are.

If she manages that little trick Scotland will be told they have to adopt the Euro and ever closer union, that should be an interesting debate in Scotland, independent from the UK but beholden to the EU,

good luck with that Queen Sturgeon

Back to the real issue, the politicians are just highlighting at the moment the total contempt they have for the public by putting self interest before the country.

They should be working together to sort out the best way of exiting the EU,

Arrogant bar stewards

[Gav]

Here's something to look forward to thanks to the Brexit vote.

In a note to clients sent today, Unicredit group chief economist Erik Nielsen says he is "very worried" about the UK's political and economic outlook, saying he expects that the new climate of uncertainty will " bring the UK in – or to the brink of – recession next year."

The weaker pound has already made the UK poorer in real terms relative to other countries.

But in the medium to longer term, if UK GDP ends up some 5%-8% lower than otherwise forecast in 10-15 years, and if the pound depreciates by 10-15% in trade-weighted terms, then UK per capita income, which last year was at par with that of France, (about 10% below Germany and some 15% above Italy and Spain), will end up some 15% below France in about ten years, or broadly at levels like in Southern Europe.

So instead of being the 5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd biggest in Europe we'll be on a par with Greece in 15 years time.

There's a fine legacy for our children and grandchildren.

This is how George worked out his budgets Jim, guessing games and a crystal ball, he was way of the mark.

I listened to a US economist yesterday who thinks we'll be booming in 10yrs time after an initial downturn, so lets wait and see.

[otto man]

Interesting take on the Brexit from an Italian Journo.

https://youtu.be/2Futxf1U2f8

[otto man]

Here's something to look forward to thanks to the Brexit vote.

In a note to clients sent today, Unicredit group chief economist Erik Nielsen says he is "very worried" about the UK's political and economic outlook, saying he expects that the new climate of uncertainty will " bring the UK in – or to the brink of – recession next year."

The weaker pound has already made the UK poorer in real terms relative to other countries.

But in the medium to longer term, if UK GDP ends up some 5%-8% lower than otherwise forecast in 10-15 years, and if the pound depreciates by 10-15% in trade-weighted terms, then UK per capita income, which last year was at par with that of France, (about 10% below Germany and some 15% above Italy and Spain), will end up some 15% below France in about ten years, or broadly at levels like in Southern Europe.

So instead of being the 5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd biggest in Europe we'll be on a par with Greece in 15 years time.

There's a fine legacy for our children and grandchildren.

The weaker pound has also prompted a rush of orders from overseas customers( inc those in the EU) Order books are filling up. Now, tell me that ain't good for the economy!

[Husky]

The Leave vote wasn't won by those blaming foreigners though (the new PC way of saying racist). The only way it was is if 52% of the electorate are racist.

It's laughable.

According to the snotty nosed youth there are over 17.4 million right wing racist's . . . . yet every time there seems to be some kind of BNP (or similar) rally there's only seems to be a couple of handfuls of people.

I can only assume that these so called educated youngsters must have bought their degrees with daddy's money.

[jim mk2]

Some quotes from today.

“Brexit will significantly speed up the move of advanced jobs and functions from London, Glasgow and Bristol to Krakow, Wroclaw and Warsaw,” deputy prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki told the Financial Times. “We are considering how to assist.”

Tarek Al-Wazir, economics minister for the German state of Hesse, where Frankfurt is located, said he thought that some banks with their European subsidiaries in London could now think about moving to other centres in the EU, such as Frankfurt.

Mr Brusuelas, the RSM economist, said that investors who use the UK as a jumping off point for foreign direct investment into the EU are likely to reconsider.

“Investors will consider reallocating investment to Ireland and the Netherlands, which we believe would be the primary recipients in reallocation,” he said.

And Ulrich Kater, chief economist of DekaBank, which manages the assets of Germany’s savings banks, said: “Outside the EU, the UK is a small land with a lopsided economy and a massive trade deficit.”

[yoda]

Interesting take on the Brexit from an Italian Journo.

https://youtu.be/2Futxf1U2f8

Good to see an EU country's view on it,

he also got a dig in about the Bilderbergs, i.e. Obama, Blair, Osborne, Rothchilds etc, fabulous

[Stuart]

Some quotes from today.

Brexit will significantly speed up the move of advanced jobs and functions from London, Glasgow and Bristol to Krakow, Wroclaw and Warsaw, deputy prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki told the Financial Times. We are considering how to assist.

Tarek Al-Wazir, economics minister for the German state of Hesse, where Frankfurt is located, said he thought that some banks with their European subsidiaries in London could now think about moving to other centres in the EU, such as Frankfurt.

Mr Brusuelas, the RSM economist, said that investors who use the UK as a jumping off point for foreign direct investment into the EU are likely to reconsider.

Investors will consider reallocating investment to Ireland and the Netherlands, which we believe would be the primary recipients in reallocation, he said.

And Ulrich Kater, chief economist of DekaBank, which manages the assets of Germanys savings banks, said: Outside the EU, the UK is a small land with a lopsided economy and a massive trade deficit.

My my. They really are feeling threatened aren't they.

If we are going to continue to listen to them then we will just become paralysed.

This has created so many different news stories the media will have more talking heads than they can throw a stick at.

Until the EU kick us out, WE are in control of timescales and we should not be threatened or pressured into doing anything quickly.

A general election and then we will be right with you. Until then you can wait.

No doubt the European banks will start to play games but we can hurt those countries as much as they hurt us. Calm heads required.

[jim mk2]

My my. They really are feeling threatened aren't they.

If we are going to continue to listen to them then we will just become paralysed.

This has created so many different news stories the media will have more talking heads than they can throw a stick at.

Until the EU kick us out, WE are in control of timescales and we should not be threatened or pressured into doing anything quickly.

A general election and then we will be right with you. Until then you can wait.

No doubt the European banks will start to play games but we can hurt those countries as much as they hurt us. Calm heads required.

What a daft and irrelevant post in the context of the quotes I provided.

And I'd love to know we can "hurt those countries as much as they hurt us".

[philipl]

Does such an Act even exist Phillip?

And in any case if the legislation you mean is the Scotland Act 1998 was this not significantly amended this year by the Scotland Act 2016?

(I'm not a lawyer but when you posted something the other day about Scotland possibly having obtained 'de facto independence' as a consequence of Brexit I asked a Scottish constitutional lawyer I'm friendly with about this and he didn't think what you had suggested was correct)

These things are open to interpretation but there are several commentators suggesting that the interaction of the Scottish legislation with the European Accession Act creates a position of strength for the Nats.

Sturgeon is being very smart in referring these matters to a commission of experts.

Found this (written before June 23):

Britain's exit from the EU, Prof Douglas-Scott says, would require the repeal of legislation such as the European Communities Act, the mechanism by which EU law is brought into the body of UK law. But a big complication is that the ECA and other primary legislation implementing EU laws are incorporated directly into the devolution statutes in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The Scotland Act 1998 states that acts of the Scottish Parliament which are not compatible with EU legislation are “not law”. Similar provisions exist in the Government of Wales Act and the Northern Ireland Act.

“If the UK government insists that powers repatriated from Brussels go to Westminster [after a vote to leave the EU], this could set Westminster and Holyrood on a collision course,” said Andrew Scott, professor of European Union Studies at the University of Edinburgh.

For instance, control over agriculture and fisheries policy, handed to Scotland at the time devolution was enacted because the EU was assumed to have responsibility in this area, would “default” to Scotland in the event of Brexit, Prof Scott said. “That would then set up a major constitutional problem because the UK government would be likely to want to retain control over these areas.”

By convention, Westminster must seek the consent of the Scottish parliament for legislation on devolved issues. Any attempt by a UK government to force through changes would be likely to provoke outrage in Scotland — where polls suggest a majority intend to vote to remain in the EU — and boost support for a second independence referendum.

Thanks jim, saves me finding it- I hadn't seen this view by Andrew Scott before but it echoes the information I had previously seen.

[ABBEY]

No ... Aimed at plenty of others around the ex pat folks