[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[philipl]

What I'm finding most alarming about all this is the number of liberals who don't respect democracy.

Lots of desperate scrambling from people with a vested interest in staying in the EU (and their children).

If the backbiting continues it's going to get very ugly.

Losing a referendum doesn't mean that a point of view disappears.

As you rightly say, for (the majority of) British people there is a fundamental economic and lifestyle issue here and I am certain you are not arguing that people shouldn't look to protect the welfare of themselves and their families.

The referendum didn't settle one absolutely fundamental issue- Single Economic Market membership.

That remains a wide open political issue.

[philipl]

Here's something to look forward to thanks to the Brexit vote.

In a note to clients sent today, Unicredit group chief economist Erik Nielsen says he is "very worried" about the UK's political and economic outlook, saying he expects that the new climate of uncertainty will " bring the UK in – or to the brink of – recession next year."

The weaker pound has already made the UK poorer in real terms relative to other countries.

But in the medium to longer term, if UK GDP ends up some 5%-8% lower than otherwise forecast in 10-15 years, and if the pound depreciates by 10-15% in trade-weighted terms, then UK per capita income, which last year was at par with that of France, (about 10% below Germany and some 15% above Italy and Spain), will end up some 15% below France in about ten years, or broadly at levels like in Southern Europe.

So instead of being the 5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd biggest in Europe we'll be on a par with Greece in 15 years time.

There's a fine legacy for our children and grandchildren.

This is not hyperbole.

No wonder Gove opposed all experts.

However, in the real world after the referendum, reality is going to bite and extremely painfully.

[philipl]

Sturgeon now believing she can veto Britain leaving the EU.

Let me get this straight...

Scotland give their people the option to leave the UK. They opted to stay.

The UK (including millions of Scottish people, by the way) voted to leave the EU. (If every Scottish person had wanted to be in the EU then we still would be).

The leader of the SNP believes that it is the right thing for all Scottidh people to only consider a majority of Scots and not recognise the majority in the UK because it suits her agenda.

This is a dictatorship, no?

What would happen if we remained in the EU and they vote for something that Scotland doesn't like? Would she be looking for loopholes with that?

Why is nobody crying about a nasty nationalist agenda? You can be damned sure they would be if it was an English one.

No it is the intersection of Westminster legislation.

The option is to pass new legislation concerning Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland severely curtailing certain devolved powers then try to win a Scottish referendum after doing that....

In the real world, in real politics, the SNP has 56 out of 59 Scottish MPs, a continuing large majority in the Scottish Parliament and has just seen 32 out of 32 Scottish districts vote decisively to remain in the EU. The prospect of Scotland staying in the EU and England leaving massively improves Scottish economic prospects far more than economic transfers going north of the border or the inevitable decline in oil.

Facing her is a Prime Minister and leader less Conservative Party which voted 72-28 AGAINST the majority of the Cabinet in the Referendum and an opposition which has just lost half of its shadow Cabinet.

In politics real hard facts count- it is a world without fixed rules but strength counts. Sturgeon has enormous strength.

[Stuart]

No it is the intersection of Westminster legislation.

The option is to pass new legislation concerning Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland severely curtailing certain devolved powers then try to win a Scottish referendum after doing that....

In the real world, in real politics, the SNP has 56 out of 59 Scottish MPs, a continuing large majority in the Scottish Parliament and has just seen 32 out of 32 Scottish districts vote decisively to remain in the EU. The prospect of Scotland staying in the EU and England leaving massively improves Scottish economic prospects far more than economic transfers going north of the border or the inevitable decline in oil.

Facing her is a Prime Minister and leader less Conservative Party which voted 72-28 AGAINST the majority of the Cabinet in the Referendum and an opposition which has just lost half of its shadow Cabinet.

In politics real hard facts count- it is a world without fixed rules but strength counts. Sturgeon has enormous strength.

In politics, the electorate counts. The government and even the opposition for too long have believed in the Venkys style of rule (maybe that's where Venkys learned it from), that is, treat the fans/people as an irrelevance and do what works for yourself and what you think they will tolerate.

[RibbleValleyRover]

You can't brand all the people voted Leave as racist bigots but there is an increasing number of reports coming out of EU nationals who have come over here, work hard and pay their taxes being told to bugger off now that the UK have voted to leave the EU. Disturbing news and those people should be ashamed of their behaviour.

[Gav]

You can't brand all the people voted Leave as racist bigots but there is an increasing number of reports coming out of EU nationals who have come over here, work hard and pay their taxes being told to bugger off now that the UK have voted to leave the UK. Disturbing news and those people should be ashamed of their behaviour.

Why would EU nationals that are settled here with jobs and paying taxes being told to leave? They came here legally and reside here legally?

They don't become Illegal because of BREXIT?

[RibbleValleyRover]

Why would EU nationals that are settled here with jobs and paying taxes being told to leave? They came here legally and reside here legally?

They don't become Illegal because of BREXIT?

Good question but these thickos are doing it. This campaign has brought to the surface a rise of xenophobia across the country.

[otto man]

You can't brand all the people voted Leave as racist bigots but there is an increasing number of reports coming out of EU nationals who have come over here, work hard and pay their taxes being told to bugger off now that the UK have voted to leave the UK. Disturbing news and those people should be ashamed of their behaviour.

Disgusting!

[RibbleValleyRover]

Disgusting!

It's vile and there should be no place for it.

One example:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/racist-messages-appear-near-school-telling-poles-to-go-home-following-brexit-5967257/

‘Sick’ messages describing Polish people as ‘vermin’ have been distributed in a Cambridgeshire town after Britain voted to Leave the EU.

Laminated cards reading ‘Leave the EU, No More Polish Vermin’ were placed on doorsteps and near a school in Huntingdon.

[yoda]

It's vile and there should be no place for it.

One example:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/racist-messages-appear-near-school-telling-poles-to-go-home-following-brexit-5967257/

‘Sick’ messages describing Polish people as ‘vermin’ have been distributed in a Cambridgeshire town after Britain voted to Leave the EU.

Laminated cards reading ‘Leave the EU, No More Polish Vermin’ were placed on doorsteps and near a school in Huntingdon.

Find out who they are and prosecute

[Stuart]

You can't brand all the people voted Leave as racist bigots but...

C'mon RVR, don't give oxygen to the media soundbite desperados trawling for red necks.

[Mike Graham]

It's vile and there should be no place for it.

One example:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/racist-messages-appear-near-school-telling-poles-to-go-home-following-brexit-5967257/

‘Sick’ messages describing Polish people as ‘vermin’ have been distributed in a Cambridgeshire town after Britain voted to Leave the EU.[/size

Laminated cards reading ‘Leave the EU, No More Polish Vermin’ were placed on doorsteps and near a school in Huntingdon.

This is appaling and just shows how simple minded some UK citizens are.

I voted out and have spent decades fighting racism.

For me it was not about race.

[Gav]

It's nothing to do with Brexit, they were scumbags before Brexit are are scumbags after, this just gives them an excuse to spread bile.

[Mike Graham]

It's nothing to do with Brexit, they were scumbags before Brexit are are scumbags after, this just gives them an excuse to spread bile.

100%+

[Stuart]

It's nothing to do with Brexit, they were scumbags before Brexit are are scumbags after, this just gives them an excuse to spread bile.

Almost. They are scum but it will be the media who will link their bile to the Brexit vote.

[oldjamfan1]

The Scottish bitch can't block the exit. It has been democratically voted for and if politicians try to change it they must be voted out by calling a General Election.

I'm sorry Al but I must voice my objection to this post in the strongest possible terms. You've made it very clear in previous posts what you think of the Scots, Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon but language like this is unnecessary and unfair.

I'm no SNP supporter, but I've met Nicola Sturgeon several times through my job, and worked very closely with her office and with her ministers and civil servants. She is a superb politician who genuinely cares about her country and understands the issues that affect people more than most politicians I have encountered (which have been many, over 30+ years of working in social housing, including UK ministers and her predecessors as Scottish First Minister).

Once again, you are out of order.

[chaddyrovers]

in total 10 Labour MP 's have resigned from Shadow cabinet

[ABBEY]

? said 11 on telly.

[Gav]

Doesn't matter how many resign, the membership voted less than 12 months overwhelmingly in support of Corbyn, they'll do the same again I have no doubt about that.

So he either resigns his position or he remains in charge, simple as that really and no amount of blubbering and bickering is going to change that.

[MCMC1875]

Doesn't matter how many resign, the membership voted less than 12 months in overwhelming support of Corbyn, they'll do the same again I have no doubt about that.

So he either resigns his position or he remains in charge, simple as that really and no amount of blubbering and bickering is going to change that.

And that's the rub ABS, the Labour membership have lost touch with the working class people. The're hooked up with public sector brigade.

[Mike E]

Watching the QT special, I think there's only one sensible way to put together a government that is united behind a good outcome after the decision of the British electorate. That is to take note of the voting patterns at the last (or next) General Election and create a negotiating team that reflects the PR result, which reflects the view of the electorate.

Doing otherwise is seemingly what has led to the younger generations not being heard and the poorer classes of society being trampled upon.

It boils down to one word for all MPs: LISTEN!

[Baz]

Watching the QT special, I think there's only one sensible way to put together a government that is united behind a good outcome after the decision of the British electorate. That is to take note of the voting patterns at the last (or next) General Election and create a negotiating team that reflects the PR result, which reflects the view of the electorate.

Doing otherwise is seemingly what has led to the younger generations not being heard and the poorer classes of society being trampled upon.

It boils down to one word for all MPs: LISTEN!

Actually represent all of your constituents, not just the ones who have or may vote for you.

Put party politics to the back-burner, until the next general election- there's enough else to worry about.

[yoda]

Actually represent all of your constituents, not just the ones who have or may vote for you.

Put party politics to the back-burner, until the next general election- there's enough else to worry about.

The referendum never was and should never have been a party exercise.

A cross party set up should be the way forward until we have exited the EU.

Imagine that, MP's working together for the good of the country.

[MCMC1875]

The referendum never was and should never have been a party exercise.

A cross party set up should be the way forward until we have exited the EU.

Imagine that, MP's working together for the good of the country.Yoda

Yoda

Cameron blew it. He had no need to call a referendum. Should have kept his backbenchers in check.

[yoda]

Yoda

Cameron blew it. He had no need to call a referendum. Should have kept his backbenchers in check.

I know that, you could also say Labour should have done better.

but we are past that now, the world keeps turning