[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[BRFC1995]

Worst thing to happen since thursday is showing the world what a bunch of ....s the british youth are. Not a great advert for Britains future the ones that have gone on the camera news crews seem to have gone out of the way to find the most embarrassingly feeble individuals to speak to. You lost or couldn't be bothered its over deal with it don't indulge prize winning bells like Damon albarn and Billy Bragg either.

I'd have that leadsom woman in charge, on right side of argument, not been a career leach/MP, doesn't come across as a flustered idiot like pretty much all the others.

[Husky]

I certainly wouldn't want any of the MP's that have signed that '2nd referendum petition' to represent me. How utterly undemocratic.

Is there any way of getting a readable list?

[Stuart]

Looking like Corbyn is going to front it out.

Wonder how it would go if he was up against Benn in a leadership vote? Burnham looks like he's had his day in the sun and doesn't want to upset Jezza.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

On a lighter note, we seem to be regaining a sense of humour!

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/sick-of-referendum-talk-here-are-some-alternative-petitions-you-can-sign-5967506/

[Gav]

Looking like Corbyn is going to front it out.

Wonder how it would go if he was up against Benn in a leadership vote? Burnham looks like he's had his day in the sun and doesn't want to upset Jezza.

Corbyn would beat anyone in a leadership vote, his win last time was unprecedented, 60% of the vote, Andy Burnham came second 19%.

His support from the membership is extremely strong, can't see Benn or anyone else getting close.

[Husky]

If Parliament decides against a Brexit, what happens? Civil War?

It's interesting to think that if we were in a Country where guns are more culturally used there would probably have already been gun-toters and deaths and we'd be on the way to civil war.

[philipl]

It's interesting to think that if we were in a Country where guns are more culturally used there would probably have already been gun-toters and deaths and we'd be on the way to civil war.

Let's not forget poor Jo Cox

Does anyone seriously think Britain is "stronger" or wealthier today?

These are the main stories in this morning's Financial Times:

Britain faces up to waning global clout

Vote to leave EU plunges UK into domestic political instability

Labour at war as Corbyn faces rebellion

Post-Brexit dollar surge presents Fed with new conundrum

The US currency’s swings in coming days to be crucial for Fed policy and world economy

City ‘suffers’ power shift to eurozone

Eurozone holds sway over rulemaking which UK financial services will have to follow

Brexit: The questions for markets this week

Pivotal period begins in aftermath of Britain’s decision to leave the EU

MARKETS

Banks prepare for another day of currency mayhem

Extra staff called in to man FX desks as investors digest a weekend of UK political instability

Brexit could add to pressure on tourist spending

Global markets take $2tn Brexit hit

Largest single day drop since 2007 after UK votes to quit EU

Bond market caught between Brexit and a central bank response

Gilt market faces critical week with yields near record lows but investors paying up for insurance

And more on the total cluster@#/? we are in:

YOUR 60-SECOND BREXIT GUIDE

— Chaos reigned through the weekend as it emerged there is no post-Brexit plan from either the U.K. government or Leave campaign.

— European governments are moving towards an October trigger of the ‘Article 50’ exit procedure, as they plan the mechanics at tomorrow’s summit.

— Jonathan Hill, the U.K.’s European commissioner, resigned, and Didier Seeuws, a Belgian diplomat, will head up the EU’s Brexit negotiation taskforce.

— U.K. Labour is in civil war, with more than a dozen shadow cabinet resignations already and rumors of many more. It’s looking more likely Jeremy Corbyn will be forced to re-win his position as Labour leader in a new vote.

— The Scottish government is moving on twin tracks: toward a second independence referendum, and exploring efforts to refuse their consent to a Brexit.

— Goldman Sachs has forecast the U.K. will enter recession in 2017 as a result of Thursday’s vote, and has cut a cumulative 2.75 percent from 2016-17 growth forecasts.

[Stuart]

Corbyn would beat anyone in a leadership vote, his win last time was unprecedented, 60% of the vote, Andy Burnham came second 19%.

His support from the membership is was extremely strong, can't see Benn or anyone else getting close.

You seem very adamant about this.

Surely seeing the Labour Party crumble whilst he continues with his "I'm not resigning and you can't sack me" arrogance must be raising a few eyebrows.

He turning into the Steve Kean of politics.

[Mike Graham]

Corbyn would beat anyone in a leadership vote, his win last time was unprecedented, 60% of the vote, Andy Burnham came second 19%.

His support from the membership is extremely strong, can't see Benn or anyone else getting close.

His support from the membership is strong.

The Corbyn Party membership are not in touch with the British people who will never elect a Trotskyite party.

[ABBEY]

Let's not forget poor Jo Cox

Does anyone seriously think Britain is "stronger" or wealthier today?

These are the main stories in this morning's Financial Times:

Britain faces up to waning global clout

Vote to leave EU plunges UK into domestic political instability

Labour at war as Corbyn faces rebellion

Post-Brexit dollar surge presents Fed with new conundrum

The US currencys swings in coming days to be crucial for Fed policy and world economy

City suffers power shift to eurozone

Eurozone holds sway over rulemaking which UK financial services will have to follow

Brexit: The questions for markets this week

Pivotal period begins in aftermath of Britains decision to leave the EU

MARKETS

Banks prepare for another day of currency mayhem

Extra staff called in to man FX desks as investors digest a weekend of UK political instability

Brexit could add to pressure on tourist spending

Global markets take $2tn Brexit hit

Largest single day drop since 2007 after UK votes to quit EU

Bond market caught between Brexit and a central bank response

Gilt market faces critical week with yields near record lows but investors paying up for insurance

And more on the total cluster@#/? we are in:

YOUR 60-SECOND BREXIT GUIDE

Chaos reigned through the weekend as it emerged there is no post-Brexit plan from either the U.K. government or Leave campaign.

European governments are moving towards an October trigger of the Article 50 exit procedure, as they plan the mechanics at tomorrows summit.

Jonathan Hill, the U.K.s European commissioner, resigned, and Didier Seeuws, a Belgian diplomat, will head up the EUs Brexit negotiation taskforce.

U.K. Labour is in civil war, with more than a dozen shadow cabinet resignations already and rumors of many more. Its looking more likely Jeremy Corbyn will be forced to re-win his position as Labour leader in a new vote.

The Scottish government is moving on twin tracks: toward a second independence referendum, and exploring efforts to refuse their consent to a Brexit.

Goldman Sachs has forecast the U.K. will enter recession in 2017 as a result of Thursdays vote, and has cut a cumulative 2.75 percent from 2016-17 growth forecasts.

Your post or a copy n paste ?

[philipl]

Your post or a copy n paste ?

My post but Britain is going to hell in a handcart right now.

Just the 60-second Brexit guide from Politico is a copy and paste at the end.

[joey_big_nose]

Incredible statement by Johnson in the Telegraph today. Seems to amount to a commitment to keep freedom of movement of people. Theres gonna be a lot of angry Leave voters. Sounds like he is teeing us up to stay in the EEC.... Glad to hear ot personally but this isnt what the Leave campaign sold to the public at all.

[Stuart]

Incredible statement by Johnson in the Telegraph today. Seems to amount to a commitment to keep freedom of movement of people. Theres gonna be a lot of angry Leave voters. Sounds like he is teeing us up to stay in the EEC.... Glad to hear ot personally but this isnt what the Leave campaign sold to the public at all.

Sounds like re-negotiation to me.

[perthblue02]

Can anybody translate a Polish article about the leaked German French plan for a EU Superstate?

edit Not google translate , needs a polish speaker

http://www.tvp.info/25939371/nasz-news-superpanstwo-zamiast-unii-europejskiej--ultimatum-francji-i-niemiec

[joey_big_nose]

Sounds like re-negotiation to me.

That part is obvious. What is key is

1) He states extraction will take a long time

2) Very little will change from the current state of affairs

If the economy holds he will be fine, but of it dives the very pertinant question will be what exactly has been achieved for the risk?

[Gav]

You seem very adamant about this.

Surely seeing the Labour Party crumble whilst he continues with his "I'm not resigning and you can't sack me" arrogance must be raising a few eyebrows.

He turning into the Steve Kean of politics.

It's not arrogance in any shape way or form, he was voted in by a massive majority less that 12 months ago Stuart, the arrogance is from the MP's who think they can just spit the dummy out and ignore the thousands of members that voted him in, they're trying to make those voters irrelevant and that's disgusting in my view.

His support from the membership is strong.

The Corbyn Party membership are not in touch with the British people who will never elect a Trotskyite party.

I agree with you 100% PB, but I also believe in democracy which is why he should stay for me and not be bullied out by MP's that clearly don't think democracy is relevant here.....

[ABBEY]

I saw many who voted based on control of immigration and Boris and Paul Hannan made quotes said this would likely not change post brexit.

SO YOU CANT BACK YOUR "MILLIONS " QUOTE?

[den]

I agree with you 100% PB, but I also believe in democracy which is why he should stay for me and not be bullied out by MP's that clearly don't think democracy is relevant here.....

Democracy, bullying Gav?

If Labour want to win an election then they have to replace Corbyn. He's the "leader" of the party. How well is his leadership doing? He can't even keep his shadow cabinet behind him. Politics is tough. There's only one place to be if you want to influence your countries future - and that's in power. If you can't do that, if you can't achieve any kind of power, you should stand down. Corbyns ideal position would be as a union member where he could fight for his members wages and conditions - which is just about all he's doing now. A prime minister he certainly isn't.

[Gav]

Democracy, bullying Gav?

If Labour want to win an election then they have to replace Corbyn. He's the "leader" of the party. How well is his leadership doing? He can't even keep his shadow cabinet behind him. Politics is tough. There's only one place to be if you want to influence your countries future - and that's in power. If you can't do that, if you can't achieve any kind of power, you should stand down. Corbyns ideal position would be as a union member where he could fight for his members wages and conditions - which is just about all he's doing now. A prime minister he certainly isn't.

I'm not disagreeing with any of the points you make, but you can't just ignore the voters den, we may as well all move to Cuba and have done with democracy.

Ignoring an overwhelming majority is simply not democratic and I'm surprised you're advocating such an approach.

[MCMC1875]

Democracy, bullying Gav?

If Labour want to win an election then they have to replace Corbyn. He's the "leader" of the party. How well is his leadership doing? He can't even keep his shadow cabinet behind him. Politics is tough. There's only one place to be if you want to influence your countries future - and that's in power. If you can't do that, if you can't achieve any kind of power, you should stand down. Corbyns ideal position would be as a union member where he could fight for his members wages and conditions - which is just about all he's doing now. A prime minister he certainly isn't.

Corbyn reminds me of Michael Foot - unelectable.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Incredible statement by Johnson in the Telegraph today. Seems to amount to a commitment to keep freedom of movement of people. Theres gonna be a lot of angry Leave voters. Sounds like he is teeing us up to stay in the EEC.... Glad to hear ot personally but this isnt what the Leave campaign sold to the public at all.

From reading it it's pretty obvious deep down he doesn't want to leave either. People made the argument all along that Boris was a remainer in his heart but that he joined the leave campaign so he could depose Cameron and take no.10, looks like they were right.

There's going to be a massive shitstorm and a further increase in xenophobia when we come back with a deal that keeps us in the single market but also means we have free movement. Immigration won't be controlled and will therefore not go down and people who are leavers are going to be incredibly mad about it.

[den]

I'm not disagreeing with any of the points you make, but you can't just ignore the voters den, we may as well all move to Cuba and have done with democracy.

Ignoring an overwhelming majority is simply not democratic and I'm surprised you're advocating such an approach.

Many a party leader has been ousted Gav. Probably more have been ousted, than haven't.

As one party advisor said yesterday, yes he was elected, but not elected to be totally useless.

[only2garners]

Gav - what seems to me to be the situation is that Labour MPs on the right of the party are making a judgment that enough party members who voted for Corbyn last year are now changing their minds - this primarily coming from his disappointing performance in the referendum and the realisation that the next general election is now very likely to be later this year and not in 2020 and that a Labour party under Corbyn will lose badly. Now whether there is any truth in that or it is just wishful thinking I guess we will see very soon. I'm not and have never been a member of the Labour party so have no feel for the mood amongst members. What is crystal clear is that now there needs to be another leadership election, which will either reaffirm Corbyn or hand over power to a more centrist candidate. Just ignoring the situation will be the worst possible outcome.

More generally we seem to be a position in which the Leave campaign has won a referendum based on a collection of lies (the £350m of "savings", Turkey about to join the EU, a European army) and giving the electorate the impression that a vote for leave will cut immigration, which most of the leaders of the campaign now seem to be denying was ever the intention.

[Guest]

Good perception, RVR. This is has only just begun. There will be anarchy. 48.1% of the population can't be that wrong, and should not be ignored.

I'm pretty livid how this is already panning out. How Farage can stand there and claim victory against "lies and deceit" is disgraceful. If they bring back capital punishment, he should be hung for treason against the people. Lying two-faced @#/?. An outright liar. How he can be defended now (or quietly ignored) is unbelievable, but people are too bothered about all those Poles next door to pull him up for it. He could've stepped forward during the campaign and said that the £350m for the NHS was false, but he chose not to. To distance himself from it and blame others in his own Leave camp is disgraceful. Deceiving little @#/?. At best, he's a xenophobe who plays on people's fears. The economy is not in a bad state because of immigration. His party line is utter garbage.

They're a set of liars, and should be hounded off the political stage. I'm sorry, but I cannot feel united when the electorate has been sold such a blatant pack of lies, and have fallen hook, line, and sinker for it. It's up to those Leave voters who feel deceived to step forward and demand answers and accountability. Will they? I don't know. But this whole thing has been a sham from start to finish.

[Gav]

Corbyn reminds me of Michael Foot - unelectable.

Tell me someone in the labour party that is electable MCMC?

Many a party leader has been ousted Gav. Probably more have been ousted, than haven't.

As one party advisor said yesterday, yes he was elected, but not elected to be totally useless.

Do you believe in democracy den?