[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[den]

Heseltine saying there could be another referendum.

He's arguing that the brexit EU negotiations will yield a bad deal which will be voted down by parliament. That would leave two options - either a general election or a second referendum.

Do you believe in democracy den?

I believe that MPs should elect their leader and that a leader should stand down if he can't retain the backing of his shadow cabinet or win a general election.

[Gav]

Gav - what seems to me to be the situation is that Labour MPs on the right of the party are making a judgment that enough party members who voted for Corbyn last year are now changing their minds - this primarily coming from his disappointing performance in the referendum and the realisation that the next general election is now very likely to be later this year and not in 2020 and that a Labour party under Corbyn will lose badly. Now whether there is any truth in that or it is just wishful thinking I guess we will see very soon. I'm not and have never been a member of the Labour party so have no feel for the mood amongst members. What is crystal clear is that now there needs to be another leadership election, which will either reaffirm Corbyn or hand over power to a more centrist candidate. Just ignoring the situation will be the worst possible outcome.

The party has been looking for a reason to oust Corbyn since the membership elected him less than 12 months ago, this seems to be the perfect storm many have been looking for.

If they force a new leadership election and he's voted out I'm fine with that, but if they vote him back in its time for some of these MP's to be voted out or even sacked. These MP's are elected by the us and are behaving disgracefully without a mandate to do so, mainly in the pursuit of career progression more than anything else i'd wager.

[Al]

I'm sorry Al but I must voice my objection to this post in the strongest possible terms. You've made it very clear in previous posts what you think of the Scots, Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon but language like this is unnecessary and unfair.

I'm no SNP supporter, but I've met Nicola Sturgeon several times through my job, and worked very closely with her office and with her ministers and civil servants. She is a superb politician who genuinely cares about her country and understands the issues that affect people more than most politicians I have encountered (which have been many, over 30+ years of working in social housing, including UK ministers and her predecessors as Scottish First Minister).

Once again, you are out of order.

Your post does not change my opinion of Sturgeon. She is a dangerous and ambitious woman who wants to rule Scotland by any means even if it means disturbing the equilibrium in Great Britain. She needs putting in her place quickly.

I am not out of order it is my honest opinion of this woman.

Please note I have nothing against Scots or Scotland. They are British just like the rest of us.

[Gav]

I believe that MPs should elect their leader and that a leader should stand down if he can't retain the backing of his shadow cabinet or win a general election.

Join the Tory party then because you seem to have forgotten what democracy is all about den.

[den]

Gav.....

Talking about democracy within the Labour Party, would you accept rovers manager being elected by anyone willing to pay £3?

[T J Hooker]

Nothing beats the smell of napalm in the morning

Lovin all this chaos me

[den]

Just one more before I go

Boris just now "project fear is over"

Sturgeon just replied "indeed Boris, project farce has just begun and you are primarily responsible"

[Gav]

Gav.....

Talking about democracy within the Labour Party, would you accept rovers manager being elected by anyone willing to pay £3?

Thats a very poor example, utter bunkum

[oldjamfan1]

Your post does not change my opinion of Sturgeon. She is a dangerous and ambitious woman who wants to rule Scotland by any means even if it means disturbing the equilibrium in Great Britain. She needs putting in her place quickly.

I am not out of order it is my honest opinion of this woman.

Please note I have nothing against Scots or Scotland. They are British just like the rest of us.

It was the "Scottish bitch" description I objected to Al, and you know it.

And the whole reason for the SNP's existence is to disturb the equilibrium in the UK so you could argue that she is, in fact, just being very, very good at her job.

And I'm not a supporter of the SNP.

[Mike Graham]

Gav - what seems to me to be the situation is that Labour MPs on the right of the party are making a judgment that enough party members who voted for Corbyn last year are now changing their minds - this primarily coming from his disappointing performance in the referendum and the realisation that the next general election is now very likely to be later this year and not in 2020 and that a Labour party under Corbyn will lose badly. Now whether there is any truth in that or it is just wishful thinking I guess we will see very soon. I'm not and have never been a member of the Labour party so have no feel for the mood amongst members. What is crystal clear is that now there needs to be another leadership election, which will either reaffirm Corbyn or hand over power to a more centrist candidate. Just ignoring the situation will be the worst possible outcome.

You seem to have summed up the situation in the L Party very well o2g.

It is all very well for Labour members to be backing JC but surely this is about the wider electorate and power. Labour will never get into power with JC as the electorate will not support him. If we had a snap General Election now then Labour would be decimated.

I would put money on another General Election this year and probably another referendum as well. Although Brexit won on the day it is not the end of it and 48% will put up a massive campaign to reverse what has happened......that is called politics !! If you don't win you try a different approach until you do.....it has been happening for centuries.

Just heard that Tom Watson (JC's number 2) has told JC to stand down.

[Al]

It was the "Scottish bitch" description I objected to Al, and you know it.

And the whole reason for the SNP's existence is to disturb the equilibrium in the UK so you could argue that she is, in fact, just being very, very good at her job.

And I'm not a supporter of the SNP.

I don't withdraw that either. My opinion.

[T J Hooker]

Your post does not change my opinion of Sturgeon. She is a dangerous and ambitious woman who wants to rule Scotland by any means even if it means disturbing the equilibrium in Great Britain. She needs putting in her place quickly.

I am not out of order it is my honest opinion of this woman.

Please note I have nothing against Scots or Scotland. They are British just like the rest of us.

That reads like you have a problem with women(particularly women in power) though.

[Gav]

That reads like you have a problem with women(particularly women in power) though.

This is a political thread, lets keep it that way should we.

[Al]

That reads like you have a problem with women(particularly women in power) though.

Read it how you like, as if it is anything to do with you. I'm a great admirer of the opposite sex if you want to know.

[Gav]

I would put money on another General Election this year and probably another referendum as well. Although Brexit won on the day it is not the end of it and 48% will put up a massive campaign to reverse what has happened......that is called politics !! If you don't win you try a different approach until you do.....it has been happening for centuries.

You're probably right PB, if it does happen and we have another EU referendum I'll consider never voting again.

What we're seeing here is a complete breakdown of the political class, its happening all over the world with politicians blaming each other when actually they're the ones to blame.

Anyone know where i can buy a tank, road worth, how much is the congestion change these days? for a tank?

[Mike Graham]

Yep, there is a lot of blame around Gav.

British politics is so americanised and even their politics is getting worse. I remember years ago knocking on doors when I stood for Council (in Southport......madness) and spoke about what I believe in and tried to share a vision.

These days it is about "don't vote for them because they will do xyz". In the States it has got even worse with personal attacks on the opposition (even in the same party) where Trump refers to "Criminal Clinton".

Politics stinks. As I have said before the only politician to come out of the last few weeks with any credit is Tim Farron.

[MCMC1875]

You're probably right PB, if it does happen and we have another EU referendum I'll consider never voting again.

What we're seeing here is a complete breakdown of the political class, its happening all over the world with politicians blaming each other when actually they're the ones to blame.

Anyone know where i can buy a tank, road worth, how much is the congestion change these days? for a tank?

Gav there's a spare Centurion tank parked by the roundabout near Golden Way/Flensburg Way near Leyland. Dunno where the keys are though!

[Mike Graham]

Gav there's a spare Centurion tank parked by the roundabout near Golden Way/Flensburg Way near Leyland. Dunno where the keys are though!

I probably put together the engine for that when I worked at Leyland Bus and Truck. If it was one of mine I very much doubt it will go; that probably explains why it had not moved for 5 years :-))

[Gav]

Gav there's a spare Centurion tank parked by the roundabout near Golden Way/Flensburg Way near Leyland. Dunno where the keys are though!

[ABBEY]

Many a party leader has been ousted Gav. Probably more have been ousted, than haven't.

As one party advisor said yesterday, yes he was elected, but not elected to be totally useless.

He was elected by non labour members who suddenly signed up and became members and voted for him for a laugh .

Gav.....

Talking about democracy within the Labour Party, would you accept rovers manager being elected by anyone willing to pay £3?

exactly

Nothing beats the smell of napalm in the morning

Lovin all this chaos me

Your either not a full shilling or just out to get some attention ?

That reads like you have a problem with women(particularly women in power) though.

Why does it?

[den]

He was elected by non labour members who suddenly signed up and became members and voted for him for a laugh . exactly

They didn't even have to sign up Abbey.

I joined the electricians Union as a young lad. There was no choice in those days as the closed shop was in existence. Stayed a member throughout my working life, was never an activist, then I retired because of ill health 17 years ago. Because of that I was moved to the retired members section. Never heard a word from the Union after that until the last labour leadership election when I was contacted and told that because I was a Labour Party member I could vote in the election - which I did.

The point is, I'm assuming that anyone who was a union member had the right to vote in the Labour Party leadership election. Well....... Many union members were Tory voters so I assume they had the vote as well. That's ridiculous.

Preston blue will be able to clarify if that's the case.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Pound continues to decline and went past a 31 year low this morning. FTSE 250 which i believe is supposed to be a better barometer of the impact of Brexit on UK businesses than the FTSE 100 is taking a real hammering. They even had to suspend trading on RBS and Barclays shares this morning as as a result of a huge drop and fears over a BOE interest rate reduction.

It's chaos already and we aren't even a week into it. Uncertainty in the markets, chaos in politics and real divisions in society.

[Gav]

He was elected by non labour members who suddenly signed up and became members and voted for him for a laugh .

If you believe that enough people joined the Labour party to influence the vote I've got a bridge for sale in London, going cheap.

Pound continues to decline and went past a 31 year low this morning. FTSE 250 which i believe is supposed to be a better barometer of the impact of Brexit on UK businesses than the FTSE 100 is taking a real hammering. They even had to suspend trading on RBS and Barclays shares this morning as as a result of a huge drop and fears over a BOE interest rate reduction.

It's chaos already and we aren't even a week into it. Uncertainty in the markets, chaos in politics and real divisions in society.

The government need to get their at together and start to govern, not sod off like that idiot Cameron who is to blame for BREXIT more than most.

[ultrablue]

Your post does not change my opinion of Sturgeon. She is a dangerous and ambitious woman who wants to rule Scotland by any means even if it means disturbing the equilibrium in Great Britain. She needs putting in her place quickly.

I am not out of order it is my honest opinion of this woman.

Please note I have nothing against Scots or Scotland. They are British just like the rest of us.

She's the leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party. She is doing exactly what she and her party were given an overwhelming mandate to do in the General Election. Then she got a clear message from the Scottish people in the EU referendum.

You are entitled to dislike her for whatever reason, but she has a darn sight more credibility than any politician England can muster at the moment.

To trot out the phrase du jour on this thread - the (Scottish) people spoke, or do you not believe in democracy?

[K-Hod]

You're probably right PB, if it does happen and we have another EU referendum I'll consider never voting again.

What we're seeing here is a complete breakdown of the political class, its happening all over the world with politicians blaming each other when actually they're the ones to blame.

Anyone know where i can buy a tank, road worth, how much is the congestion change these days? for a tank?

Ask Vivienne Westwood - http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2015/sep/11/vivienne-westwood-tank-protest-fracking-david-cameron-chadlington