[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[den]

Away from the electorate? This country voted Conservative in the last general election which shows you where the majority of the electorate sits. As much as people deride the Blairite position now, it was still the right move to shift the Labour party towards the center to tap into the overwhelming amount of people who are center left/center and even slightly right of center.

Exactly right Biddy. If Labour really want to win the next election they'll have to attract the centre ground again. There are a number of people who believe that Corbyn doesn't want to be prime minister - and that he sees that as some kind of betrayal. The way he's gone about his business shows him as a protester and not a leader in my opinion. That's no good for the countries second party.

Anyway, he's lost the no confidence vote by over 80%. 172 to 40.

If he has any respect for the party he won't stand again because if he were re elected the problem would remain.,

[jim mk2]

If he has any respect for the party he won't stand again because if he were re elected the problem would remain.,

He is refusing to stand down according to reports.

[Al]

The phrases I keep hearing:

'You lost, get over it'

'What a set of bad losers'

Whilst there may be truth in those statements, it doesn't mean people aren't allowed to air their grievances if they feel people have, as O2G says, voted based on a couple of lies.

And you will hear it again -

You lost, get over it.

What a set of bad losers.

Just accept it and stop whinging.

[K-Hod]

And you will hear it again -

You lost, get over it.

What a set of bad losers.

Just accept it and stop whinging.

Think you've missed the point, but never mind.

[Dreyski]

And you will hear it again -

You lost, get over it.

What a set of bad losers.

Just accept it and stop whinging.

I don't think you understand how democracy works, bad winner.

[Stuart]

Seriously did anybody vote Brexit for Britain to become sovereign again?

I know right. Everyone should have voted "Remain" because that's what you wanted. A far more noble cause.

Stop belittling folk and get over yourself.

If you actually lived and worked on this country it'd be a start. The irony that you didn't want to "Leave" is that you've already "Left"!

[ABBEY]

Snobby smacked arse toy chucking foot stomping childish spoilt brats

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, this desire to silence remain voters annoyed at the result seems to be the exact opposite of democracy and freedom of speech.....

It's not a desire to silence Remain voters, it's telling it how it is. Proposals for a second referendum is undemocratic, Sturgeon's threats to veto the decision are undemocratic, claims that it's unfair old people decided a vote that will affect them least are undemocratic.

As I've said in previous posts, I'm truly shocked at the response. I'm starting to think I gave a lot of liberal friends, the general public and MPs too much credit in assuming they were actually liberal.

[Baz]

Is having a viewpoint like Diane Abbott an insult?

As for career politicians, do you understand the term? It's not about being a leader?

Having a viewpoint like Diane Abbott would alarm most people.

From what I can see the PLP are trying to oust a guy they feel is unelectable.

Under Corbyn they have had, a set of very poor council elections, a remain campaign where the leader wouldn't get on stage with the PM, wouldn't do a debate, and chose to do a few low key interviews late on in the campaign. His PMQ's are embarrassing, and more often than not, he tee's up Cameron to take easy shots at the Labour Party and himself - without taking him to task.

At which point does his mandate from being elected run out? After the next election - even if it's clear he will never get elected? Traditional Labour voters deserve to have a party and leader worth backing, not decades of Tory rule.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

To be fair (despite my previous post on it), I do actually see where GAV is coming from on Corbyn.

Look at Rovers as an analogy. Rovers are never gonna win the PL again (at least not in our lifetimes), should we therefore choose a club with a better chance that we have at least some affinity with? Or should we say you know what, sod it. Rovers is my passion, it's what I believe it and I'm sticking with it whether it's successful or not.

That's what GAV and the remaining Corbyn supporters are doing and Corbyn himself is simply saying I'm not walking out on the people who voted me into leadership. I've always admired his integrity despite having largely different views.

Its the smart option to compromise and choose a more centralist leader, but should politics be about that or should it be about people passionately advocating their raw opinion, not one made palatable to play the game? As always when it comes to Corbyn, it's easy for me to say this while he remains zero threat to my party.

[Al]

I don't think you understand how democracy works, bad winner.

The ones who get most votes win. Simples!

[Norbert Rassragr]

Labour is pathetic. Honestly, there needs to be an opposition to the very corrupt Tory party, but they're too busy attacking each other. Corbyn was always going to be stabbed in the back and front by self serving Tory lite careerists who wanted another say nothing corporate nodding dog like Cooper. I don't think Jeremy's turned out to be a natural leader, but the complete lack of loyalty shown by the other MPs from the moment he won by a landslide shows that the party is unable to function and provide an alternative. Jeremy's a bit too left wing for me but at least he tried to do things differently.

The last thing the country needs is another snake oil salesman like Tony Blair or a complete non entity who has no ideological ideals before they talk to a focus group in opposition.

If you are a bit left wing, you might as well join the Green party as Labour will probably ignore the working classes and become a real status quo party.

[Husky]

Where's Blair Junior these days? Milli whatever....the brother with the unblocked nose?

I reckon he could return and win the next General Election for 'Labour' as like Blair he's essentially a Tory.

[Gav]

Having a viewpoint like Diane Abbott would alarm most people.

From what I can see the PLP are trying to oust a guy they feel is unelectable.

Under Corbyn they have had, a set of very poor council elections, a remain campaign where the leader wouldn't get on stage with the PM, wouldn't do a debate, and chose to do a few low key interviews late on in the campaign. His PMQ's are embarrassing, and more often than not, he tee's up Cameron to take easy shots at the Labour Party and himself - without taking him to task.

At which point does his mandate from being elected run out? After the next election - even if it's clear he will never get elected? Traditional Labour voters deserve to have a party and leader worth backing, not decades of Tory rule.

The Labour party has been unelectable since Gordon Brown took over as leader in 2007, and towards the end of his time Labour MP's had tried and failed to oust him also! They also wanted to oust Miliband but it was to close the election so they left him alone.

The Tories don't need to be great opposition when Labour spends year after year imploding and destroying itself from inside.

Unelectable since 2007 in my opinion, nothing to do with Corbyn, but all of a sudden 172 Labour MP's think, yes you guessed it, we're UNELECTABLE!

Its an absolute joke Baz, it really is, and I'm yet to hear a name to take over and miraculously get the party elected, because their isn't one.

Its not the leader thats the issue, or his style of politics, its the labour party, they're out of touch, full of career politicians interested in feathering their own nests and b0llox to the public.

Corbyn isn't one of those types, he's genuinely interested in bringing about change, helping people, the vast majority of the rest of em aren't.

[Mike Graham]

To be fair (despite my previous post on it), I do actually see where GAV is coming from on Corbyn.

Look at Rovers as an analogy. Rovers are never gonna win the PL again (at least not in our lifetimes), should we therefore choose a club with a better chance that we have at least some affinity with? Or should we say you know what, sod it. Rovers is my passion, it's what I believe it and I'm sticking with it whether it's successful or not.

That's what GAV and the remaining Corbyn supporters are doing and Corbyn himself is simply saying I'm not walking out on the people who voted me into leadership. I've always admired his integrity despite having largely different views.

Its the smart option to compromise and choose a more centralist leader, but should politics be about that or should it be about people passionately advocating their raw opinion, not one made palatable to play the game? As always when it comes to Corbyn, it's easy for me to say this while he remains zero threat to my party.

Isn't that analogy a bit like having Simon Garner as Rovers manager ;-)

[Mike Graham]

Having a viewpoint like Diane Abbott would alarm most people.

From what I can see the PLP are trying to oust a guy they feel is unelectable.

Under Corbyn they have had, a set of very poor council elections, a remain campaign where the leader wouldn't get on stage with the PM, wouldn't do a debate, and chose to do a few low key interviews late on in the campaign. His PMQ's are embarrassing, and more often than not, he tee's up Cameron to take easy shots at the Labour Party and himself - without taking him to task.

At which point does his mandate from being elected run out? After the next election - even if it's clear he will never get elected? Traditional Labour voters deserve to have a party and leader worth backing, not decades of Tory rule.

I was a Labour Party branch secretary in Hackney North and Stoke Newington when Diane Abbot was chosen instead of the incumbent Ernie Roberts who was delected.

Ernie was a working class lad (an engineer on the tools) who had fought for his Country; DA was a middle class trot (who soon after sent her son to a private school) who was supported by the left who were mandated via selection meetings to support ER but instead voted at the selection conference for DA because she was a black woman and because of her hard-left politics.

Sorry but democracy goes out of the window when it comes to selecting or deselecting candidates. I have been there and seen it all.....sadly.

[Stuart]

Isn't that analogy a bit like having Simon Garner as Rovers manager ;-)

Nah, more like Steve Kean.

He too...

Believed he was the right man for the job.

Believed he had support from within the ranks.

Had total self-belief to the point of arrogance.

Believed he was unsackable.

Got rid of key players who didn't have confidence in him - even if it destroyed the team and the club got relegated.

Replaced them with sycophants who would not challenge him.

Would not walk away.

Was dignified to the last.

[Mike Graham]

Nah, more like Steve Kean.

He too...

Believed he was the right man for the job.

Believed he had support from within the ranks.

Had total self-belief to the point of arrogance.

Believed he was unsackable.

Got rid of key players who didn't have confidence in him - even if it destroyed the team and the club got relegated.

Would not walk away.

Was dignified to the last.

That was funny Stuart and put a smile on my face.....thanks.

[Paul]

The actual number is 120 million/week net paid out the the EU, not 350 million previously claimed. So you are correct about that. But 120 million/week is still a very high number and not something I think Remain should be broadcasting if it wants to wag it's finger at Leave.

Whatever the actual number Boris Johnson, our possible next PM, stood in front of a poster proclaiming "Let's give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week"

The man has been shown to be an outright liar and a section of the electorate voted for a lie.

It's hardly surprising the Remain voters are unhappy.

[Paul]

Did anyone else hear Nigel Farage speaking at the EU parliament today?

His arrogance was breathtaking.

[jim mk2]

On May 22, Boris Johnson gave this forecast for the Britain's post-referendum future.

“Given the choice between taking back control or being sucked ever deeper into the federal superstate, the British voted for independence on June 23. To no one’s very great surprise, Project Fear turned out to be a gigantic hoax. The markets were calm. The pound did not collapse.”

Alas, untrue. After the biggest ever proportional two-day decline, the pound touched a 30-year low against the dollar. Standard & Poor’s and Fitch have downgraded UK public debt and investors have savaged bank shares. So far, the experts dismissed by Michael Gove, justice secretary, have been proved right.

Any well-informed person knew that a vote for Brexit would inflict pain on the economy. It would be astonishing if there were to be no recession.

This self-inflicted folly by the stupidity of the Leave vote will hurt millions of innocent people. .

[Mike Graham]

Did anyone else hear Nigel Farage speaking at the EU parliament today?

His arrogance was breathtaking.

He was dreadful, an embarrassment.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Nah, more like Steve Kean.

He too...

Believed he was the right man for the job.

Believed he had support from within the ranks. Corbyn did. He got 60% of the votes in the election.

Had total self-belief to the point of arrogance. I wouldn't say Corbyn was arrogant

Believed he was unsackable. He was all too aware the PLP was against him

Got rid of key players who didn't have confidence in him - even if it destroyed the team and the club got relegated. Many refused to work with him out of hand

Replaced them with sycophants who would not challenge him. In one or two cases, though again, so many refused to work with him and said from the outset they would campaign against him

Would not walk away.

Was dignified to the last. In the face of the media's campaign, and his own party MPs behaviour, he has been quite dignified.

[Stuart]

All about perspective Norbert.

[Gav]

Whatever the actual number Boris Johnson, our possible next PM, stood in front of a poster proclaiming "Let's give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week"

The man has been shown to be an outright liar and a section of the electorate voted for a lie.

It's hardly surprising the Remain voters are unhappy.

Our chancellor stood in front of the TV cameras and claimed if we left the EU we'd have an emergency budget, increase taxes and slash NHS budgets, reneging on many manifesto pledges

He now tells us this isn't going to happen.

Voted for a lie?