[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Whatever the actual number Boris Johnson, our possible next PM, stood in front of a poster proclaiming "Let's give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week"

The man has been shown to be an outright liar and a section of the electorate voted for a lie.

It's hardly surprising the Remain voters are unhappy.

Everyone in politics is a liar to some extent. I've yet to hear of a politician who has done every single thing he/she has ever said they would down to the letter. I've certainly never heard of a party doing exactly what they said they would during an election campaign.

The Leave vote didn't vote for a lie because statistics indicate we didn't vote based on promised funds to the NHS, we voted on immigration and sovereignty. I don't know whether it's comical, arrogant, patronising or just plain demented this approach of Remain voters to cherry pick what they didn't like about a campaign they didn't even vote for anyway and then be up in arms how much the people who did vote for it have been misled.

[den]

Our chancellor stood in front of the TV cameras and claimed if we left the EU we'd have an emergency budget, increase taxes and slash NHS budgets, reneging on many manifesto pledges

He now tells us this isn't going to happen.

Voted for a lie?

He stands by what he said Gav.

"Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said he stood by his warning about a harsh emergency budget.

He said: "We are absolutely going to have to provide fiscal security to people - in other words we are going to have to show the country and the world that the country can live within its means. Mr Osborne was asked if that meant tax rises and spending cuts and replied: "Yes, absolutely." He rejected claims he had been too harsh with warnings about the potential implications of Brexit, adding: "I would say that the concerns those like myself, who argued passionately and full throttled articulated, have been started to be borne out by events."

http://news.sky.com/story/1718621/george-osborne-warns-of-tax-increases

[jim mk2]

Leave voters were conned into voting on immigration promises that with only a little research anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew cannot be kept and a non-existent sovereignty issue. Remain voters have every right to angry over an unnecessary political, constittuional and economic crisis caused by a few xenophobic voterss. There should most certainly be an election before Article 50 is triggered. Legitimacy is a slippery subject but this parliament has no mandate to leave the EU.

.

[Gav]

I watched his speech this morning den, he's not implementing the emergency BREXIT budget, so its was a fib.

I'm not saying it'll never happen, but it was clearly a scare tactic.

No budget, no tax increases, a big fib to scare voters.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Leave voters were conned into voting on immigration promises that with only a little research anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew cannot be kept and a non-existent sovereignty issue. Remain voters have every right to angry over an unnecessary political, constittuional and economic crisis caused by a few xenophobic voterss. There should most certainly be an election before Article 50 is triggered. Legitimacy is a slippery subject but this parliament has no mandate to leave the EU.

.

Pathetic.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Sovereignty is an interesting issue. I can understand leaving the EU will increase the powers and responsibilities of Parliament, but without economic and political changes Britain (or England to be more specific) has little control over it's destiny. The SNP in Holyrood constantly threaten to torpedo policies it doesn't like such as the result of the referendum, and Scottish MPs have power and influence in issues that affect the rest of the country. So therefore the Scots are, in certain cases the source of sovereignty in the UK, and not necessarily the current government. Trident would be an example if the SNP really blocked any upgrading of the submarine base up there.

We have little in the way of economic sovereignty as so many foreign countries own important assets. Indians own our steel and a few car companies, our financial sector is multinational, our universities are taking massive amounts of fees from Chinese and Indian students and investors, our football clubs are all owned by Thais, yanks and goodness knows where else. Prime parts of London are owned by various Arab states and shady Russian businessmen, EDF is 80% by the French state, E.On is German and our beer is largely produced by two or three massive companies. There is little of business and manufacturing we can really say is ours, and often other states or people from abroad have power and influence in our affairs.

So what I am attempting to say is that leaving the EU in itself is not going to 'take our country back', as our constitution is a mess and foreigners call the shots in other areas.

[jim mk2]

Pathetic.

Less than a week after the vote, jobs are going, the economy is facing Brexageddon and our friends and allies across the world are despairing.

But little England responds in the same unintelligent manner it showed on June 23. Well done.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Less than a week after the vote, jobs are going, the economy is facing Brexageddon and our friends and allies across the world are despairing.

But little England responds in the same unintelligent manner it showed on June 23. Well done.

You and your ilk are the biggest hypocrits on the planet. Describing half the country as racist or xenophobic couldn't be more of a prejudiced, uneducated, nasty little generalisation if it tried. As I say I'm now starting to doubt your type ever did stand against these things, but if you did you're well on the way to becoming what you claim to hate. Fascist, voice-silencing class snobs who have become obsessed with savagely attacking the average man or woman in this country simply because they had the gall to vote on their independent opinion.

It's truly ugly to witness, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[den]

I watched his speech this morning den, he's not implementing the emergency BREXIT budget, so its was a fib.

I'm not saying it'll never happen, but it was clearly a scare tactic.

I've just given you a link where he says it will happen Gav.

At no point has he said it won't happen.

[Gav]

I've just given you a link where he says it will happen Gav.

At no point has he said it won't happen.

But he did say if we leave an emergency budget would happen.

Fibs, lies and bunkum.

[jim mk2]

You and your ilk are the biggest hypocrits on the planet. Describing half the country as racist or xenophobic couldn't be more of a prejudiced, uneducated, nasty little generalisation if it tried. As I say I'm now starting to doubt your type ever did stand against these things, but if you did you're well on the way to becoming what you claim to hate. Fascist, voice-silencing class snobs who have become obsessed with savagely attacking the average man or woman in this country simply because they had the gall to vote on their independent opinion.

It's truly ugly to witness, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm saddened that this country has shot itself in the foot from an economic point of view and ashamed that the Leave xenophobes have been attacking Polish and German people who have lived here for many years since June 23. Your ugliness comes from disparaging anyone who disagrees with your point of view.

It's probably escaped your attention that a huge part of the Brexit campaign stood on an unequivocal pledge to end the free movement of labour from the EU. Yet Leave leaders have already retreated from promises to control immigration, and seem to be leaning towards a Norway-style option of retaining access to the single market without full EU membership.

So, your hopes of a foreigner-free future were based on a lie. Congratulations.

[Stuart]

Not really surprised about Jim but it's sad to see Paul and Philip offering no middle ground.

There seems to be more than an element of self-righteousness about the Remain camp.

On Farage, he seemed to be very much enjoying getting his own back on years and years of put-downs and jeers. Can't really blame him, even if his approach was poor. Even the 'speaker' couldn't resist a further dig. I always thought that it was the English Parliament that was full of overgrown school children but it seems the European one is just as bad.

We are witnessing democracy in action folks but when some don't like the outcome they no longer seem able to come to terms with the idea.

Your ugliness comes from disparaging anyone who disagrees with your point of view.

If you can't see the irony in that statement... you need a bigger mirror.

[Paul]

Our chancellor stood in front of the TV cameras and claimed if we left the EU we'd have an emergency budget, increase taxes and slash NHS budgets, reneging on many manifesto pledges

He now tells us this isn't going to happen.

Voted for a lie?

GAV when did he say these things are not going to happen? Interviewed on R4 Today programme at 8.00-8.30 this morning he stated these measures would be required.

I didn't vote for any of that!!!!!!

Everyone in politics is a liar to some extent. I've yet to hear of a politician who has done every single thing he/she has ever said they would down to the letter. I've certainly never heard of a party doing exactly what they said they would during an election campaign.

The Leave vote didn't vote for a lie because statistics indicate we didn't vote based on promised funds to the NHS, we voted on immigration and sovereignty. I don't know whether it's comical, arrogant, patronising or just plain demented this approach of Remain voters to cherry pick what they didn't like about a campaign they didn't even vote for anyway and then be up in arms how much the people who did vote for it have been misled.

Hang on a minute. I haven't cherry picked anything. I've responded to a single comment made by Steve Moss to correct an inaccuracy in his post.

[jim mk2]

If you can't see the irony in that statement... you need a bigger mirror.

Look in the mirror and have a look at your defence of Jordan Rhodes.

Here's a question for all the Brexiteers - and let's see if anyone can answer.

What would be their plan now for the UK in a post-EU world and how do they see the future of this country?

[ABBEY]

funny how jim goes on about racism as if its only one way ,yet his hate of australia and the usa is a definate double standard.

[den]

But he did say if we leave an emergency budget would happen.

Fibs, lies and bunkum.

This is hard work Gav. I'm only going to say this, then leave it.

Before the referendum Osborne said that if we left the EU he would have to raise taxes and cut spending. You said that he'd gone back on that and now it won't happen. He hasn't said that, he's said just the opposite - that he stands by his words and it will still have to happen. That's all I'm saying. I suspect there will be no budget immediately, because the Prime Minister has resigned.

Bunkum indeed

[Paul]

Not really surprised about Jim but it's sad to see Paul and Philip offering no middle ground.

There seems to be more than an element of self-righteousness about the Remain camp.r.

In relation to me could you explain this please? I don't insult people, plenty on here can learn from that with their disgusting language recently, I chose my words with great care and try to provide tangible evidence to support my view. Yet you call me self-righteous?

My only comments in the last 2-3 days have been to show a real life example of how an SME, that I work for, is already feeling the effect of Brexit, to respond to an inaccurate post by Steve Moss and remark on Nigel Farage's speech today.

PRIOR to the vote I was actually musing on the potential middle ground which is now being suggested by some of our leading politicians. For this I was accused of "wanting democracy on my own terms" - when I was just for thinking out loud. Yet you accuse me of offering no middle ground?

Posting these thoughts prior to the referendum doesn't make me clever but I hope it demonstrates I thought about it more than some.

One thing I said was I would back any political party which went in to a general election campaigning on a promise to keep us in the EU. Today Tim Farron has my vote and I hope another 16m

[Gav]

GAV when did he say these things are not going to happen? Interviewed on R4 Today programme at 8.00-8.30 this morning he stated these measures would be required.

I didn't vote for any of that!!!!!!

George and Lord Darling said an immediate emergency budget would be required if we left, project fear some would say.

As I've already said I'm not saying it won't happen, but they told a fib.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/george-osbornes-emergency-brexit-budget-is-not-going-to-happen-yet_uk_5770c74de4b0d2571149dd8c

[MCMC1875]

_.

[Gav]

This is hard work Gav. I'm only going to say this, then leave it.

Before the referendum Osborne said that if we left the EU he would have to raise taxes and cut spending. You said that he'd gone back on that and now it won't happen. He hasn't said that, he's said just the opposite - that he stands by his words and it will still have to happen. That's all I'm saying. I suspect there will be no budget immediately, because the Prime Minister has resigned.

Bunkum indeed

Cross wires obviously, I was talking to Paul about emergency budgets, which includes taxes of course.

I NEVER said it won't happen, quite the opposite actually.

[Stuart]

In relation to me could you explain this please? I don't insult people, plenty on here can learn from that with their disgusting language recently, I chose my words with great care and try to provide tangible evidence to support my view. Yet you call me self-righteous?

My only comments in the last 2-3 days have been to show a real life example of how an SME, that I work for, is already feeling the effect of Brexit, to respond to an inaccurate post by Steve Moss and remark on Nigel Farage's speech today.

PRIOR to the vote I was actually musing on the potential middle ground which is now being suggested by some of our leading politicians. For this I was accused of "wanting democracy on my own terms" - when I was just for thinking out loud. Yet you accuse me of offering no middle ground?

Posting these thoughts prior to the referendum doesn't make me clever but I hope it demonstrates I thought about it more than some.

One thing I said was I would back any political party which went in to a general election campaigning on a promise to keep us in the EU. Today Tim Farron has my vote and I hope another 16m

My explanation is that you offer no middle ground. Staunchly Remain and even in a new world of Leave you are continuing to bemoan the result rather than consider opportunities. It will take time.

Apologies if you felt I was comparing you to Cactus Jim, no offence meant.

[Paul]

George and Lord Darling said an immediate emergency budget would be required if we left, project fear some would say.

As I've already said I'm not saying it won't happen, but they told a fib.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/george-osbornes-emergency-brexit-budget-is-not-going-to-happen-yet_uk_5770c74de4b0d2571149dd8c

Hmmmm. I think this depends on what one means by immediate - I've never expected to wake up one morning to discover it's happened.

Osborne was quite clear in R4 this morning these measures will be required. Tomorrow or in three months time they are still a direct result of Brexit.

I'm sure the Remain campaign overstated their case but many of their warnings are proving correct. Listening to elected EU heads of state it's clear there will be no special deal. Most of the promises from the Leave camp will prove to be empty IF we want to access the single market. Sovereignty and immigration will not change. This is EU leaders speaking, not me.

[MCMC1875]

I hear that the leave vote was the biggest ever in the history of British democracy.

Says it all.

[Paul]

My explanation is that you offer no middle ground. Staunchly Remain and even in a new world of Leave you are continuing to bemoan the result rather than consider opportunities. It will take time.

Apologies if you felt I was comparing you to Cactus Jim, no offence meant.

What do you mean by middle ground Stuart. I've already indicated I've stated nothing. I've not argued with any of this but commented on personal work experience, corrected Steve Moss and remarked on Farage. I can't see why I need to offer middle ground when I've said nothing.

Granted I've just commented on what I think are inaccurate remarks from GAV re Osborne and the lack of change. Hardly inflammatory stuff especially when compared with remarks by others.

Choosing to vote Liberal would be my democratic right.

[MCMC1875]

This is hard work Gav. I'm only going to say this, then leave it.

Before the referendum Osborne said that if we left the EU he would have to raise taxes and cut spending. You said that he'd gone back on that and now it won't happen. He hasn't said that, he's said just the opposite - that he stands by his words and it will still have to happen. That's all I'm saying. I suspect there will be no budget immediately, because the Prime Minister has resigned.

Bunkum indeed

Den, weeks before the referendum, Osborne said there would need to be an emergency referendum in the event of a leave vote, then changed his mind last week. Now he's saying there will need to be one. The man's clearly out of his depth. I understand that he's only ever had one proper job, after leaving school he worked at Harrods in the bathroom department for two weeks before chucking the towel in.