[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Baz]

Did anyone else hear Nigel Farage speaking at the EU parliament today?

His arrogance was breathtaking.

He was on Channel 4 news earlier saying that because UKIP have the largest number of MEPs, they should be leading the exit discussions in Brussels.

[MCMC1875]

Did anyone else hear Nigel Farage speaking at the EU parliament today?

His arrogance was breathtaking.

The bickering in the EU Parliament is just as bad as that in the House Of Commons.

After achieving his aim after 27 years from a minority starting point and all the opposition he's faced, who could blame him.

[Baz]

The Labour party has been unelectable since Gordon Brown took over as leader in 2007, and towards the end of his time Labour MP's had tried and failed to oust him also! They also wanted to oust Miliband but it was to close the election so they left him alone.

The Tories don't need to be great opposition when Labour spends year after year imploding and destroying itself from inside.

Unelectable since 2007 in my opinion, nothing to do with Corbyn, but all of a sudden 172 Labour MP's think, yes you guessed it, we're UNELECTABLE!

Its an absolute joke Baz, it really is, and I'm yet to hear a name to take over and miraculously get the party elected, because their isn't one.

Its not the leader thats the issue, or his style of politics, its the labour party, they're out of touch, full of career politicians interested in feathering their own nests and b0llox to the public.

Corbyn isn't one of those types, he's genuinely interested in bringing about change, helping people, the vast majority of the rest of em aren't.

However genuine Corbyn is, and Id agree he is, it really doesn't matter if his party are not in power. Labour need to follow the Tory mantra of promising whatever gets them elected, then enacting the policies of their core vote afterwards.

The Tories need a strong Labour Party, or they'll move increasingly right, to fend off UKIP.

Corbyn has effectively been ousted, he should accept his fate, and move on so the party can stop tearing itself apart, at a time when it needs to be united in making sure that the Tories don't use Brexit as a way of stripping the country of more services, and workers rights. How can he carry on trying to build a party toward a general election, when 2/3 to 3/4 of his day to day colleagues want him gone? Without being age-ist, he's also too old - he'll be mid 70's by the end of his potential first term.

[jim mk2]

Apologies if you felt I was comparing you to Cactus Jim, no offence meant.

Another silly jibe.

Here's a question for all the Brexiteers - and let's see if anyone can answer.

What would be their plan now for the UK in a post-EU world and how do they see the future of this country?

I NEVER said it won't happen, quite the opposite actually.

Osborne says Brexit vote means tax rises and spending cuts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36647006

[MCMC1875]

Another silly jibe.

Here's a question for all the Brexiteers - and let's see if anyone can answer.

What would be their plan now for the UK in a post-EU world and how do they see the future of this country?

Osborne says Brexit vote means tax rises and spending cuts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36647006

Weeks before the referendum, Osborne said there would need to be an emergency referendum in the event of a leave vote, then changed his mind last week. Now he's saying there will need to be one. The man's clearly out of his depth. I understand that he's only ever had one proper job. After leaving school, he worked at Harrods in the bathroom department for two weeks, before chucking the towel in. Liars on both sides and a majority of the British public saw through it. Move on.

[Mike E]

Look in the mirror and have a look at your defence of Jordan Rhodes.

Here's a question for all the Brexiteers - and let's see if anyone can answer.

What would be their plan now for the UK in a post-EU world and how do they see the future of this country?

Here was my proposal:

Leave the EU, but remain in the EEA. Same costs and benefits as membership of the EU, but with an ability to do deals with whomever we like without being dictated to.

That was why I voted Leave, to get that ball rolling.

You seem to think I'm racist or xenophobic, however. I would suggest the likes of you (who denigrate others and show nothing but bigotry when faced with another opinion) are a disgrace to the generation that stopped fascism in its tracks.

You're starting to make thenodrog look open-minded.

[gumboots]

Another silly jibe.

Here's a question for all the Brexiteers - and let's see if anyone can answer.

What would be their plan now for the UK in a post-EU world and how do they see the future of this country?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36647006

That was the question I asked of everyone I knew who planned to vote Leave before the referendum. There was no plan, just a load of rhetoric. There was no vision that could be shared because absolutely nobody knew what would be possible if we voted Leave. The scary thing was that so many people were keen to take what I suppose amounts to a leap of faith, but failed to ensure that they knew what was on the other side. They were warned but seemed to think that the warnings weren't real. Now were finding out that they were. And nobody has a clue what to do about it. It's not even clear how we start the leave process because it has to be triggered in accordance with the members country's constitution and we don't have one. So can Cameron or whoever just tell them or do we need to go through parliament or what. It's an entirely avoidable mess we have got ourselves into and how we get out of it I, and most if not all of the country's politicians,really do not have a clue. Meanwhile our political parties mess about with internal wrangling and nothing can begin to be resolved while they go through messy leadership contests.

[jim mk2]

Johnson and Gove have been virtually silent since the result - it's as if they are so stunned by the vote and never expected to win. And now they don't have a response to the question of a post-Brexit UK because they don't have any idea what the future will hold or how any plan they might have will work. The only certainty is that Osborne or his successor will use Brexit as another excuse for another ideological rampage against the poorest and weakest sections of society and the country - the same less educated people who inexplicable voted for Leave.

[ultrablue]

Less than a week after the referendum it is quite clear that absolutely no one was prepared for a Leave win.

The blame for the utter chaos that is British politics right now has to fall at two doors. UKIP and the Tory cabinet.

UKIP's entire existence is based on us leaving the EU. The fact that they have no blinking clue what they are doing now theyve achieved that shows them for the two-bit political hacks they are. They've only had decades to come up with some suggestions! Farage's pathetic 'who is laughing now' line from yesterday calls to mind the behaviour of an 8 year old sociopath who just set fire to his school.

The Tories are almost as bad. The idea that you can open the door to a direct referendum without a united party was asking for trouble. There should have been a clear publically declared road map laid out at the start of the campaign for a transition of power from Cameron to Johnson in the case of a Leave victory. That way the voters would have known in practical terms who would be accountable for post-brexit policy and those people could have been fully scrutinised before the vote.

As it is, Farage gets to grandstand before crawling back under his rock until the next election, and Johnson gets to stumble into Downing Street armed with little more than his bumbling optimism mixed with a complete lack of effs given about anyone North of Watford Gap, despite the fact many of those people opened the door to number 10 for him last Thursday.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Here was my proposal:

Leave the EU, but remain in the EEA. Same costs and benefits as membership of the EU, but with an ability to do deals with whomever we like without being dictated to.

That was why I voted Leave, to get that ball rolling.

You seem to think I'm racist or xenophobic, however. I would suggest the likes of you (who denigrate others and show nothing but bigotry when faced with another opinion) are a disgrace to the generation that stopped fascism in its tracks.

You're starting to make thenodrog look open-minded.

If the UK wants EEA then it will also have to accept freedom of movement. This will not go down well with voters who had immigration high on their list of concerns.

[jim mk2]

Here was my proposal:

Leave the EU, but remain in the EEA. Same costs and benefits as membership of the EU, but with an ability to do deals with whomever we like without being dictated to.

That was why I voted Leave, to get that ball rolling.

Not true.

It is also known as the so-called "Norway" option and, before the referendum, there was a broad consensus that there is really not much point in leaving the EU in order to join the EEA.

The Norway option would not allow Britain to curtail free movement of labour from the EU, we would still pay into the EU budget (without being able to influence any decisions) and that mythical £350m a week would not be available to spend on the NHS.

The Norway option would blatantly be a far worse deal than the one we already had by being in the EU, but it would have the small added benefit of seeing the xenophobic little Englanders go apoplectic when they realise that their vote for Brexit isn't going to make all the foreigners go away after all.

[ABBEY]

3 suicide bombers and 36 dead at Istanbul airport ... Now that's fkg racist not voting to leave .

[philipl]

1) Leave and join the EEA:

ALL THE EU REGULATIONS AND LAWS REMAIN IN FORCE. WE PAY THE SAME. The difference is Britain has zero say in what the regulations and laws are. Britain is a rule taker with no opt outs.

2) Vote Brexit to restore sovereignty.

PARLIAMENT IS SOVEREIGN. Therefore nothing happens without an Act of Parliament which permits Article 50 to be invoked. In the current Parliament, neither major party has a leader who has any effective authority over its MPs, The Lib Dems are campaigning for a General Election in which they would be the leading Remain voice (the Green is in agreement), the majority of Ulster MPs are committed to a referendum for unification with Ireland, Plaid Cymru are confused having been rejected by their voters in the referendum, the SNP are doing anything they can to keep Scotland in the EU and have a wrecking ball in probably being to take the interpretation of the Scotland Act to the Supreme Court

... and the lone UKIP MP hates Nigel Farage even more than I do.

So sovereignty means Article 50 and leaving the EU is off the table until next year at the earliest and almost certainly until after the next General Election.

[joey_big_nose]

.

[dave birch]

Philip, Vinjay got banned for less than this.

Heavens above, accept the result, find a way for your business to go forward.

What has happened has happened.

There is a world outside of the EU for lots of people

[Mike E]

If the UK wants EEA then it will also have to accept freedom of movement. This will not go down well with voters who had immigration high on their list of concerns.

Those people don't understand immigration properly

[Mike E]

Philip and jim, you forgot the second part of what I said. Yes, we'd have a slightly stricter deal with the EU, but we'd be free to make deals with 6.5bn more people. In which case, who gives a **** about petty EU rules?

This vote should have been about the longer term effect on the economy. Not the NHS and not immigration.

It would also be the sovereignty so many crave: we'd be in the EEA by choice and can make deals with whomever we like. Without the EU doing the negotiating for 27 other countries, we can tailor deals with the world to suit us and not other countries with different cultures, wishes, or mindsets.

[Gav]

Didn't think it worth a new thread:

I think I've made it quite clear that democracy is very important to me, and the rules of democracy in the Labour party for a new leader are the membership vote the leader in and out, not a bunch of disloyal short sighted MP's.

Many of you disagree, you want him out by any means possible, but nobody has put forward an alternative name to replace him? so I'd be interested to know peoples views on JC's successor?

A poll taken 3 days ago suggests Corbyn would do better than Miliband if we had a general election, not saying much I know but interesting non the less.

[Al]

Did anyone else hear Nigel Farage speaking at the EU parliament today?

His arrogance was breathtaking.

On the contrary he put them in their places and let them know they can no longer dictate to Britain. It's a pity he does not want to lead us into the brave new world.

[Al]

Our chancellor stood in front of the TV cameras and claimed if we left the EU we'd have an emergency budget, increase taxes and slash NHS budgets, reneging on many manifesto pledges

He now tells us this isn't going to happen.

Voted for a lie?

Yes the remain side lied through their teeth too. Nobody comes out well from this campaign.

What is clear to me is that Jim, Paul and Phillip actively want the economy to go wrong so that they can say " I told you so". Well the stock exchange is on it's way back up today and the pound will follow in due course. Sorry guys it's all going to be all right for most of us if not for you personally.

[chor808]

Yes the remain side lied through their teeth too. Nobody comes out well from this campaign.

What is clear to me is that Jim, Paul and Phillip actively want the economy to go wrong so that they can say " I told you so". Well the stock exchange is on it's way back up today and the pound will follow in due course. Sorry guys it's all going to be all right for most of us if not for you personally.

Depending on which paper you read it is either all going down the pan or things have never looked better. It's time for calm not panic, people need confidence to continue to spend and invest and panic stories will not help confidence one bit. Way too many people playing the UK down (I don't mean people on here).

I'm optimistic that in the mid to long term things will look much better for the UK vs the EU, the EU looks an outdated overgrow expensive failure. The issue is the deal we will need to strike with the EU, they need the accountable leaders to take charge not the unaccountable likes of Junker. He will want to show that it is worse outside of the EU and will only want the UK to fail whatever that means for the rest of the EU people as this is the only way the train keeps rolling. If we do well what reason do others have to remain. Accountable leaders need to take into account their people, this means a good deal with the UK.

The trade deficit between the UK and the EU should be the main focus of negotiations, why not have a sliding scale of free movement vs trade. More if the deficit reduces less if it increases? There are plenty of ways to work this out.

The EU brought this on by not listening as did a lot of MP's. The picture of Junker with his fingers in his ears sums it up, they are in panic do not doubt that.

[yoda]

Did anyone else hear Nigel Farage speaking at the EU parliament today?

His arrogance was breathtaking.

So was the new Sepp Blatter

Leave voters were conned into voting on immigration promises that with only a little research anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew cannot be kept and a non-existent sovereignty issue. Remain voters have every right to angry over an unnecessary political, constittuional and economic crisis caused by a few xenophobic voterss. There should most certainly be an election before Article 50 is triggered. Legitimacy is a slippery subject but this parliament has no mandate to leave the EU.

.

Are you saying the referendum count is incorrect ?

[gumboots]

Of course hes not and you know it. Personally i feel what was wrong was not setting a higher bar for leaving. 1 more vote, which could have been all it took, wasnt really suitable in this sort of vote and i said so beforehand. But its too late to change things now.

[chor808]

Of course hes not and you know it. Personally i feel what was wrong was not setting a higher bar for leaving. First past the post wasnt really suitable in this sort of vote and i said so beforehand. But its too late to change things now.

Not sure about that gumboots, a vote is a vote. Would you have a re-run if it was 51% remain? Neverendum.

[den]

Cross wires obviously, I was talking to Paul about emergency budgets, which includes taxes of course.

I NEVER said it won't happen, quite the opposite actually.

No, you were replying directly to me Gav. But hey ho...........