[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[joey_big_nose]

A second referendum and democracy dies . What will it be best of 11?

Its a different question though, and one that has to be asked. Do we want to stay in the EEC/whatever deal is hammered out, or go it totally alone.

Dont see how that is in any way undemocratic.

[yoda]

Its a different question though, and one that has to be asked. Do we want to stay in the EEC/whatever deal is hammered out, or go it totally alone.

Dont see how that is in any way undemocratic.

The question is do we want the deal the EU offers (not to stay in or not) or go it alone,

I sense a bit of creepage sneaking in there.

Any way Junckxit is in progress so negotiations will be realistic

[Stuart]

Its a different question though, and one that has to be asked. Do we want to stay in the EEC/whatever deal is hammered out, or go it totally alone.

Dont see how that is in any way undemocratic.

Then a third referendum [would you like fries with that?] and a fourth [peas or beans?]

We need to keep our composure and our nerve. Any suggestion of a climb down by the I-didn't-vote-for-this brigade and the likes of Junker will hammer us.

The rest of Europe is watching us (especially the Italians and French) and I believe they want to see us succeed.

[yoda]

Then a third referendum [would you like fries with that?] and a fourth [peas or beans?]

We need to keep our composure and our nerve. Any suggestion of a climb down by the I-didn't-vote-for-this brigade and the likes of Junker will hammer us.

The rest of Europe is watching us (especially the Italians and French) and I believe they want to see us succeed.

We are succeeding, Juncker is on his way out

[Guest]

I get the sentiment but what about this situation. Tim Farron has stated the Liberals will run on a Remain ticket if there is an election. It's our democratic right to vote for the MP who best represents our interests. If I feel the Liberal candidate best represents my interest of staying in are you arguing it would be undemocratic to vote Liberal or any other party with the same stance?

Paul, I think what we are seeing is fear from the Brexiters. They are clearly concerned that an EU exit isn't happening immediately, and it could take a months, possibly even years, to invoke Article 50. And that's if it happens at all. Brexiters are forgetting that a referendum is not binding. It does NOT have to happen. The longer this drags on, the more tetchy they are going to get, and we can already see this as we speak. This stuff about being undemocratic because people are protesting and speaking out against the result is utter bunkum. Being labelled "fascists" and "scum" on here by someone who then aggressively tells Bremainers they have no right to protest. Oh, the irony. You couldn't make it up.

[MCMC1875]

Sepp Juncker looks like he is on his way out,

realistic negotiations can take place with that clown out of the way

What a useless git!

[jim mk2]

I think a second referendum looks pretty certain now, but it won't be the EU in or out question. Over the coming months or years there will be some sort of deal hammered out, then people will be asked to vote to either take that deal (which will more than likely include staying in the EEC), or go it totally alone.

The problem is the EU want us out as quickly as possible. We've told them we don;t want to belong to their club any more - and if we change our mind (however desirable that may be) they're quite likely to tell us take a running jump. I wouldn't blame them either.

[Baz]

If there was a second negotiation with the EU and the UK was allowed to remain a member, and limit the free movement of people, then surely that is a position different enough to the current position, that the UK population should be allowed a democratic right for a second referendum vote?

[Stuart]

The problem is the EU want us out as quickly as possible. We've told them we don;t want to belong to their club any more - and if we change our mind (however desirable that may be) they're quite likely to tell us take a running jump. I wouldn't blame them either.

They can want what they like, frankly. To leave, we have to invoke Article 50 and we should take as much time as required.

We are still in the EU and they cannot tell us to take a running anything. Once we invoke Article 50 and we leave only then will they have a say.

In other news, it's frankly embarrassing the press coverage of the minority liberal groups 'protesting' AGAINST democracy and in favour of dictatorship. You really couldn't make it up.

[ABBEY]

Its a different question though, and one that has to be asked. Do we want to stay in the EEC/whatever deal is hammered out, or go it totally alone.

Dont see how that is in any way undemocratic.

How many questions / referendums do the whining want?

It's like Bonnie Langford when I was a kid .. I'll squeam and squeam til I'm sick .

#brats #toddlers

[jim mk2]

They can want what they like, frankly. To leave, we have to invoke Article 50 and we should take as much time as required.

We are still in the EU and they cannot tell us to take a running anything. Once we invoke Article 50 and we leave only then will they have a say.

In other news, it's frankly embarrassing the press coverage of the minority liberal groups 'protesting' AGAINST democracy and in favour of dictatorship. You really couldn't make it up.

You just did.

[Stuart]

You just did.

Nope. You and your anti-democracy buddies seem to be having a very hard time accepting the result of a vote by the majority of this country.

And that's without the petty comments about thickos and racists.

[jim mk2]

I've pointed out that so-called "Project Fear" is becoming Project Reality but where have i suggested the result should not stand ?

As with the second sentence, you're making it up again.

[joey_big_nose]

How many questions / referendums do the whining want?

It's like Bonnie Langford when I was a kid .. I'll squeam and squeam til I'm sick .

#brats #toddlers

To be honest Abs if there isnt a second referendum it will be the brexiters who will lose out. The reason I say that is we will probably just go for joining the EEC - which means continued free movement of EU citizens and near total alignment with EU legislation - without it going to a vote.

[Mike E]

To be honest Abs if there isnt a second referendum it will be the brexiters who will lose out. The reason I say that is we will probably just go for joining the EEC - which means continued free movement of EU citizens and near total alignment with EU legislation - without it going to a vote.

Plus the ability to do trade deals with others outside the EU.

That's what every 'brexiteer' I know personally voted for; the only compromise acceptable in this mess.

I know surprisingly few people who ACTUALLY blame immigration or believed the £350m figure.

Those voting on the basis of immigration are fewer than the media would have us believe, but they are the loudest.

[JBiz]

Plus the ability to do trade deals with others outside the EU.

That's what every 'brexiteer' I know personally voted for; the only compromise acceptable in this mess.

I know surprisingly few people who ACTUALLY blame immigration or believed the £350m figure.

Those voting on the basis of immigration are fewer than the media would have us believe, but they are the loudest.

The ability to trade outside the EU.. We could do that anyway? Was it the same media outlet this came from? Apologies if this is something youve researched, from the "facts" available I had come to my own conclusion that we'd be shutting ourselves off to specific markets we already trade in with intentions of replacing that by trading with others we already trade with.

I've not heard any real provable and plausible reasoning still for voting out - one or two musician friends voted out in "it's for globalism -I love the world, think bigger than EU" kind of lefty reasoning! Needing visas elsewhere etc.

I still couldn't justify voting out, the decision was impossible to make because of the scaremongering tactics from both sides, neither could say what would happen so it's little wonder there is no plan for an out vote.

I agree with the last part, it's quite obvious that the news teams picked the most hateful or ridiculous vox pops for social media "trending". I know for a fact that there are plenty of racist idiots around but the media quite obviously cherry pick.

Political history repeats itself again, we can guarantee that the "everyday" person is going to foot the bill for what ever this costs the country.

[Mike E]

Not research, but people I know who run businesses. Trading is different from a country having a trade deal

If I buy a shirt from China, that's trading.

If I ask China to send me a shirt every week under the same conditions (and they agree), that's a trade deal.

EU membership allows the former independently, but not the latter. Unless I have businesspeople lying to me

[jim mk2]

Political history repeats itself again, we can guarantee that the "everyday" person is going to foot the bill for what ever this costs the country.

Correct, The people who voted Leave were mainly from the less wealthy areas of the country - the people who will suffer the most when the jobs start leaving as the Brexit warnings turn into reality and Osborne uses the coming downturn in tax receipts to slash and burn public services again.

[Mike E]

Correct, The people who voted Leave were mainly from the less wealthy areas of the country - the people who will suffer the most when the jobs start leaving as the Brexit warnings turn into reality and Osborne uses the coming downturn in tax receipts to slash and burn public services again.

The same people who believed it couldn't get much worse for them than it is. Admittedly a misplaced action, but I don't blame them in trying 'something'.

Not aimed at anyone in particular (mostly something seen on Facebook), I don't buy the insistence on Leave voters being uneducated. Even if they weren't educated, why is that a stick with which to beat someone? It's not their failing, but that of the school system and/or parenting for the most part.

[Stuart]

I've pointed out that so-called "Project Fear" is becoming Project Reality but where have i suggested the result should not stand ?

As with the second sentence, you're making it up again.

Project Fear is becoming Project Self-Fulfilling Prophesy and Project Find A Minority Reaction And Over Dramatise It In The Media To See If We Can Make It Worse.

Really? You ymust be keeping a very low profile if you haven't heard/read the post-Brexit-Remain rhetoric.

[jim mk2]

The reality is we have already have a political crisis that is quite likely to lead to a constitutional crisis. An economic crisis is more than likely according to reports that it had virtually come to a halt before the referendum.

These are realities and consequences of the leave vote.

You're making it up again.

[ABBEY]

The same people who believed it couldn't get much worse for them than it is. Admittedly a misplaced action, but I don't blame them in trying 'something'.

Not aimed at anyone in particular (mostly something seen on Facebook), I don't buy the insistence on Leave voters being uneducated. Even if they weren't educated, why is that a stick with which to beat someone? It's not their failing, but that of the school system and/or parenting for the most part.

Facebook was and still is full of key board warriors mouthing off about racism , idiots and other gobby crap , all aimed at anyone who voted out .(quite a few off this board got very mouthy as well (no names they know who they are ))

[Al]

Its a different question though, and one that has to be asked. Do we want to stay in the EEC/whatever deal is hammered out, or go it totally alone.

Dont see how that is in any way undemocratic.

The question is same IN or OUT. The country has already voted. It's just like the Sturgeon lack of acceptance and it would be undemocratic to have another vote. How many referendums do you want before you get the result you want. (Not you personally joey, just generally.)

[ABBEY]

Farage stepped down

[ultrablue]

Farage stepped down

Says he's 'done his bit' 😠