[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[MCMC1875]

  On 05/07/2016 at 02:57, philipl said:

The World Trade Organisation have just slammed Osborne's cut in Corporation Tax rate to 15%.

Britain cannot operate as a sort of glorified British Virgin Islands and have trade deals at the same time- it is one thing or the other

Britain cannot have "control over immigration" and be a member of the Single European Market- it is one or the other

Britain cannot "take control again" and ignore the Sovereignty of the Monarch in Parliament which means Article 50 can only constitutionally be achieved after a long and difficult INTERNAL DOMESTIC BRITISH PROCESS- it is one or the other

Britain cannot remain a United KIngdom without reconciling the remain concerns of the Scots and Northern Irish- it is one or the other

The Referendum provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaigners provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaign leaders have all resigned/deserted/stabbed each other in the back since the Referendum leaving no plans and no answers; just the biggest British mess in my lifetime.

.

[Stuart]

  On 05/07/2016 at 02:57, philipl said:

The World Trade Organisation have just slammed Osborne's cut in Corporation Tax rate to 15%.

Britain cannot operate as a sort of glorified British Virgin Islands and have trade deals at the same time- it is one thing or the other

Britain cannot have "control over immigration" and be a member of the Single European Market- it is one or the other

Britain cannot "take control again" and ignore the Sovereignty of the Monarch in Parliament which means Article 50 can only constitutionally be achieved after a long and difficult INTERNAL DOMESTIC BRITISH PROCESS- it is one or the other

Britain cannot remain a United KIngdom without reconciling the remain concerns of the Scots and Northern Irish- it is one or the other

The Referendum provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaigners provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaign leaders have all resigned/deserted/stabbed each other in the back since the Referendum leaving no plans and no answers; just the biggest British mess in my lifetime.

The EU want more people like you, Philip. A bit of positive energy would do you good.

See if you can get through 10 minutes of the "idiot" Farage.

https://www.facebook.com/GBrexit/videos/1742207342685827/

[dave birch]

  On 05/07/2016 at 02:57, philipl said:

The World Trade Organisation have just slammed Osborne's cut in Corporation Tax rate to 15%.

Britain cannot operate as a sort of glorified British Virgin Islands and have trade deals at the same time- it is one thing or the other

Britain cannot have "control over immigration" and be a member of the Single European Market- it is one or the other

Britain cannot "take control again" and ignore the Sovereignty of the Monarch in Parliament which means Article 50 can only constitutionally be achieved after a long and difficult INTERNAL DOMESTIC BRITISH PROCESS- it is one or the other

Britain cannot remain a United KIngdom without reconciling the remain concerns of the Scots and Northern Irish- it is one or the other

The Referendum provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaigners provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaign leaders have all resigned/deserted/stabbed each other in the back since the Referendum leaving no plans and no answers; just the biggest British mess in my lifetime.

Philip, you appear to be clutching at straws:

It is of no concern of the WTO what the UK , or any other country for that matter, charges company tax at. Would they argue if it were 80%? I'll bet not, as all the companies would be busy rushing out the door.

It might be considered that Osbourne is trying to position the UK in the world economy the way that Lee Kwan Yoo postioned Singapore. Just one country trying to get an edge, that's all.

If you had a referendum in all the EU countries, I'll bet that the vast majority would agree with controlling their borders. It's the one thing I agreed with one of our past Prime Ministers ( John Howard, spit cough) about when he said something like "We will be the sole judge of who come to our country and the terms that they do so".

Doesn't the Queen act on the advice of the government of the day? They invoke article 50 in a parliamentary session. Just like any other piece of legislation, isn't it.

If the Scots, and Irish had objected to the appointment of (say) a Labour Government at a general election at which they had voted for (say) a Tory party, would they have a right to change the will of the majority?

From where I'm sitting, the majority has spoken, accept it or get yourself into a position to get the position overturned in the same democratic way that this decision was made. It did take Farage a rather long time though

[MCMC1875]

  On 05/07/2016 at 02:57, philipl said:

The World Trade Organisation have just slammed Osborne's cut in Corporation Tax rate to 15%.

Britain cannot operate as a sort of glorified British Virgin Islands and have trade deals at the same time- it is one thing or the other

Britain cannot have "control over immigration" and be a member of the Single European Market- it is one or the other

Britain cannot "take control again" and ignore the Sovereignty of the Monarch in Parliament which means Article 50 can only constitutionally be achieved after a long and difficult INTERNAL DOMESTIC BRITISH PROCESS- it is one or the other

Britain cannot remain a United KIngdom without reconciling the remain concerns of the Scots and Northern Irish- it is one or the other

The Referendum provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaigners provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaign leaders have all resigned/deserted/stabbed each other in the back since the Referendum leaving no plans and no answers; just the biggest British mess in my lifetime.

Blimey philip, you have taken this badly.

Why not take some time off and spend a week in Clitheroe, you'll soon see the light!

[ABBEY]

  On 05/07/2016 at 02:57, philipl said:

The World Trade Organisation have just slammed Osborne's cut in Corporation Tax rate to 15%.

Britain cannot operate as a sort of glorified British Virgin Islands and have trade deals at the same time- it is one thing or the other

Britain cannot have "control over immigration" and be a member of the Single European Market- it is one or the other

Britain cannot "take control again" and ignore the Sovereignty of the Monarch in Parliament which means Article 50 can only constitutionally be achieved after a long and difficult INTERNAL DOMESTIC BRITISH PROCESS- it is one or the other

Britain cannot remain a United KIngdom without reconciling the remain concerns of the Scots and Northern Irish- it is one or the other

The Referendum provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaigners provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaign leaders have all resigned/deserted/stabbed each other in the back since the Referendum leaving no plans and no answers; just the biggest British mess in my lifetime.

You don't live in Britain .

[gumboots]

  On 05/07/2016 at 07:37, MCMC1875 said:

Blimey philip, you have taken this badly.

Why not take some time off and spend a week in Clitheroe, you'll soon see the light!

Why clitheroe? He'd find plenty of allies in town. Now out in the ribble valley perhaps......

[jim mk2]

Stories in the press today that the govt will have to turn to accountants and lawyers with the likes of EY, KPMG, and McKinsey to negotaite the complex trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world because there is no one in Whitehall with the expertise to do it.

On £350k plus per annum these consultants don't come cheap and the cost of this exercise which is expected to take years is in excess of £1 billion per annum - all paid for by the taxpayer.

On another note, the country's biggest property fund has been suspended because investors are rushing for the exit while property shares sare heading south at a rapid rate in anticipation of a big downturn in the property market - confirming yesterday's news that construction PMI is in negative territiory.

This national suicide mission is only just starting

[Biddy]

and we haven't even done anything yet which just shows how pathetic these speculators are.

I would have thought Jim that you would have been one of the first to cheer at property investors pulling out. It is after all those types that invest only for profit which puts prices up which prices out the ordinary person.

[Al]

  On 04/07/2016 at 19:23, yoda said:

Shall I get her telephone number and then you can ask her,

Is it relevant to anything ?

Actually I think it is relevant yoda. If British workers can't get a job because they employ cheap foreign labour I think it is important.

[Al]

  On 04/07/2016 at 20:04, jim mk2 said:

Cameron is to blame for the Brexit vote, aided by Johnson who gave the Leave campaign a veneer of respectability.

Farage on his own would not have got that result.

The man's a political pygmy.

Wrong again Jim. Without Farage there would not have been a referendum. He did a great job and now has withdrawn. Work completed!

[K-Hod]

  On 05/07/2016 at 10:31, Al said:

Wrong again Jim. Without Farage there would not have been a referendum. He did a great job and now has withdrawn. Work completed!

I have to agree. I found it weird that people were having a pop at Farage.

Whilst he's not my cup of tea, he was the leader of the UK Independence Party, independence was achieved, so he's done what he set out to do. It stands to reason that he would likely resign if this were the case. He isn't even in the ruling party so I don't see how any of this could be his fault......

The current government though, they do need to get on with us actually leaving the EU.

[RibbleValleyRover]

  On 05/07/2016 at 10:54, K-Hod said:

I have to agree. I found it weird that people were having a pop at Farage.

Whilst he's not my cup of tea, he was the leader of the UK Independence Party, independence was achieved, so he's done what he set out to do. It stands to reason that he would likely resign if this were the case. He isn't even in the ruling party so I don't see how any of this could be his fault......

The current government though, they do need to get on with us actually leaving the EU.

Having a pop at him for standing down I don't get, having a pop at him for his xenophobic campaign and posters I think that's fair game. Death threats (apparently one of the main reasons why he has stood down) however I can't condone.

Farage I suspect isn't done with politics. He will probably stand as an MP again in 2020, maybe even return to the Tory fold if a brexiter and the right wingers take over the party. Leadsom was asked if Farage could be part of her brexit negotiation team and she wouldn't rule it out.

[yoda]

  On 05/07/2016 at 09:13, jim mk2 said:

Stories in the press today that the govt will have to turn to accountants and lawyers with the likes of EY, KPMG, and McKinsey to negotaite the complex trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world because there is no one in Whitehall with the expertise to do it.

On £350k plus per annum these consultants don't come cheap and the cost of this exercise which is expected to take years is in excess of £1 billion per annum - all paid for by the taxpayer.

On another note, the country's biggest property fund has been suspended because investors are rushing for the exit while property shares sare heading south at a rapid rate in anticipation of a big downturn in the property market - confirming yesterday's news that construction PMI is in negative territiory.

This national suicide mission is only just starting

Well watching Mark Carney again this morning I would say you are wrong again as usual, that guy is a total class act and looks like he has all bases covered.

  On 05/07/2016 at 10:25, Al said:

Actually I think it is relevant yoda. If British workers can't get a job because they employ cheap foreign labour I think it is important.

I was trying to get JAL to answer that point as I was not sure what angle he was coming from !

[JAL]

  On 05/07/2016 at 02:57, philipl said:

The World Trade Organisation have just slammed Osborne's cut in Corporation Tax rate to 15%.

Britain cannot operate as a sort of glorified British Virgin Islands and have trade deals at the same time- it is one thing or the other

Britain cannot have "control over immigration" and be a member of the Single European Market- it is one or the other

Britain cannot "take control again" and ignore the Sovereignty of the Monarch in Parliament which means Article 50 can only constitutionally be achieved after a long and difficult INTERNAL DOMESTIC BRITISH PROCESS- it is one or the other

Britain cannot remain a United KIngdom without reconciling the remain concerns of the Scots and Northern Irish- it is one or the other

The Referendum provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaigners provided no answers to any of these questions.

The Leave campaign leaders have all resigned/deserted/stabbed each other in the back since the Referendum leaving no plans and no answers; just the biggest British mess in my lifetime.

Is Britain's ripe for a peaceful takeover now as some Lord claimed the government had been offered billions of pounds to be run by somebody several years ago just wondered ?

[Steve Moss]

  On 05/07/2016 at 09:13, jim mk2 said:

Stories in the press today that the govt will have to turn to accountants and lawyers with the likes of EY, KPMG, and McKinsey to negotaite the complex trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world because there is no one in Whitehall with the expertise to do it.

If true, that just demonstrates that there is a lack of real world experience in all three parties at the moment (and in both of ours here in the USA). There was a time that we had former military officers, businessmen, successful farmers, etc. running the western nations. Now it looks like they go from the classroom straight into politics. It's a disgrace.

[jim mk2]

  On 05/07/2016 at 12:05, yoda said:

Well watching Mark Carney again this morning I would say you are wrong again as usual, that guy is a total class act and looks like he has all bases covered.

Brexit risks are starting to crystallise, says Carney.

Do you understand English even if it's spoken in a Canadian accent?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a849fa1e-4293-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#axzz4DQUmHNs3

  On 05/07/2016 at 10:31, Al said:

Wrong again Jim. Without Farage there would not have been a referendum. He did a great job and now has withdrawn. Work completed!

He's done a great job of screwing the country I'll admit. Then like his Brexit cohorts Cameron and Johnson he buggers off and leaves us all poorer and having to clean up the mess for the next 5 years.

  On 05/07/2016 at 10:13, Biddy said:

and we haven't even done anything yet which just shows how pathetic these speculators are.

I would have thought Jim that you would have been one of the first to cheer at property investors pulling out. It is after all those types that invest only for profit which puts prices up which prices out the ordinary person.

There's not speculators - they're investors in commercial property. And they're trying to get out because the economy is heading for a Brexit-induced recession.

[Al]

  On 05/07/2016 at 14:55, jim mk2 said:

Brexit risks are starting to crystallise, says Carney.

Do you understand English even if it's spoken in a Canadian accent?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a849fa1e-4293-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#axzz4DQUmHNs3

He's done a great job of screwing the country I'll admit. Then like his Brexit cohorts Cameron and Johnson he buggers off and leaves us all poorer and having to clean up the mess for the next 5 years.

You were wrong again Jim. The FTSE 100 now stands at over 6500. A mere thousand points above your forecast. How much more are you going to be wrong about?

[jim mk2]

  On 05/07/2016 at 14:58, Al said:

You were wrong again Jim. The FTSE 100 now stands at over 6500. A mere thousand points above your forecast. How much more are you going to be wrong about?

The FTSE 100 has been helped by the falling pound. Let's see when the recession hits.The FTSE 250 - which is more representative of the UK economy - has take a big hit. Housebuilding shares are down 30 per cent or more. Sterling (in effect the share price of UK PLC) is at a 31-year low against the dollar.

[Steve Moss]

  On 05/07/2016 at 15:03, jim mk2 said:

Sterling (in effect the share price of UK PLC) is at a 31-year low against the dollar.

As an American who has watched the value of the dollar fall over the last several years, and been assured by our governing class that a weak dollar is to our economic advantage, I have to profess some amusement about the sudden concern about the falling value of the pound.

A weak value of currency is either good, bad or a little of both. I tend toward a little of both. But as currencies will fluctuate over time, and as the UK has control over it's currency, whether it is strong or weak is largely under your control. It will stabilize, especially if you don't print too much of it and if your economy is, and/or /tax/regulatory schemes makes you, an attractive place to invest (and a corporate tax rate of 15% will definitely make the UK an attractive place to invest money).

[Mike E]

  On 05/07/2016 at 14:30, Steve Moss said:

If true, that just demonstrates that there is a lack of real world experience in all three parties at the moment (and in both of ours here in the USA). There was a time that we had former military officers, businessmen, successful farmers, etc. running the western nations. Now it looks like they go from the classroom straight into politics. It's a disgrace.

I suspect there isn't a single person on this mb who will disagree with that.

[Clitherover]

If leaving the EU is going to turn out to be such a disaster as jim and phillip keep telling us, why are people in other countries appealing to get their own EU referendum?. So far I've read that a vast majority of 90% of a poll conducted in the Netherlands wanted an EU referendum, there were also majorities in favour of a referendum in both France and Austria.

The EU looks like a sinking ship that everyone has been trying to get out of for a while and now we've jumped everyone wants to follow.

[Al]

  On 05/07/2016 at 15:03, jim mk2 said:

The FTSE 100 has been helped by the falling pound. Let's see when the recession hits.The FTSE 250 - which is more representative of the UK economy - has take a big hit. Housebuilding shares are down 30 per cent or more. Sterling (in effect the share price of UK PLC) is at a 31-year low against the dollar.

Your forecast Jim, not mine. You stipulated the FTSE 100.

[yoda]

  On 05/07/2016 at 14:56, jim mk2 said:

Brexit risks are starting to crystallise, says Carney.

Do you understand English even if it's spoken in a Canadian accent?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a849fa1e-4293-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#axzz4DQUmHNs3

He's done a great job of screwing the country I'll admit. Then like his Brexit cohorts Cameron and Johnson he buggers off and leaves us all poorer and having to clean up the mess for the next 5 years.

There's not speculators - they're investors in commercial property. And they're trying to get out because the economy is heading for a Brexit-induced recession.

Crystallise as in becoming clear, I listened to the rest of it and he obviously has all the bases covered.

Canadian accent, what does that even mean ?

No need to get personal Jimbo

[jim mk2]

So to sum up, you didn't believe the warnings from the ECB, BoE, IMF, World Bank, White House, UK Govt, EU Palt and EU Commission before the vote, now Mark Carney and others are saying this is really happening, you don't believe them either!

[MCMC1875]

  On 05/07/2016 at 14:56, jim mk2 said:

Brexit risks are starting to crystallise, says Carney.

Do you understand English even if it's spoken in a Canadian accent?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a849fa1e-4293-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#axzz4DQUmHNs3

He's done a great job of screwing the country I'll admit. Then like his Brexit cohorts Cameron and Johnson he buggers off and leaves us all poorer and having to clean up the mess for the next 5 years.

There's not speculators - they're investors in commercial property. And they're trying to get out because the economy is heading for a Brexit-induced recession.

Ha! That's usually the job of the Tory government after Labour have left office.