[Archived] Rovers Accounts 2015

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Now then,where has that Rhodes coin gone again?

[tomphil]

They ain't paid up yet have they ? Gibson will probably try and wriggle out of it somehow if they don't go up. That's if it hasn't already been wired to India

[morninbob]

Enough that you broke even? Making a £30m profit gives off a whiff of lack of ambition from the club in my opinion. There are no guarantees that you would have stayed up, but as long as you hadn't put the club at financial risk should you be relegated, it really wouldn't have mattered too much.

£30M is a paper profit though, it has been used to pay back director loans and rebuild gawthorpe. All Burnley fans wish we could have spent more, it wasn't through the lack of trying though, we were priced out of several players, we wanted deeney but Watford wouldn't sell at any price. if we could have signed barton and gray last year then we probably would have stayed up.

[cesus]

I've been thinking about our finances and well actually more about the cost to Venkys. Everything that costs them money seems to go down as debt, which is being serviced by paying in interest on the overdraft, so in my zero business financial knowledge is that is like having a credit card and paying the minimum payment back to Barclay card?

With this in mind how much is this club likely to be costing the owners annually? Would it be say 5% interest on debt or are business overdrafts rates far higher/lower? We are an umbrella company of theirs, Venkys London as far as I'm aware? Is there a chance of them wrapping up that company and it not effecting their major group of companies financially I.e say that this company has gone bust and pay back a small amount to owed creditors?

I know there are lots of questions here but I just can't get my head around why the hell they are still here, I'm starting to wonder whether it's not actually costing them as much as maybe we would all think!?!

[ABBEY]

33/1 x 2

[JHRover]

QPR announced losses of £45 million last year DESPITE being in the Premier League and their 'debt' now stands at £193 million. Still no transfer embargo though.

[Stuart]

QPR announced losses of £45 million last year DESPITE being in the Premier League and their 'debt' now stands at £193 million. Still no transfer embargo though.

Not sure if that's an April Fool because it makes a mockery of any idea of Financial Fair play and the embargo rule.

[imy9]

qpr are making a mockery out of FFP.

Nearly 200 million in debt. been fined by the football league but have not paid the fine!

love to know their wage bill for this year.

[tomphil]

I've been thinking about our finances and well actually more about the cost to Venkys. Everything that costs them money seems to go down as debt, which is being serviced by paying in interest on the overdraft, so in my zero business financial knowledge is that is like having a credit card and paying the minimum payment back to Barclay card?

With this in mind how much is this club likely to be costing the owners annually? Would it be say 5% interest on debt or are business overdrafts rates far higher/lower? We are an umbrella company of theirs, Venkys London as far as I'm aware? Is there a chance of them wrapping up that company and it not effecting their major group of companies financially I.e say that this company has gone bust and pay back a small amount to owed creditors?

I know there are lots of questions here but I just can't get my head around why the hell they are still here, I'm starting to wonder whether it's not actually costing them as much as maybe we would all think!?!

It's almost always been my take on it that VLL is funded by a huge debt to some organisation in India and that debt is secured on huge swathes of land and estates owned by Venkys. So I agree that they personally probably just service the interest annually on that ever expanding debt. It might even have been serviced by bleeding money out of the club itself from parachutes/sales.

I do think though that if it's done like that then there will be a limit on it that will not be far off being reached. Of course this is only guesswork but if anyone researches how the V's do things over there and how other organisations tend to do things it could be possible. I certainly don't think for one milli second that they've poured 100 million of their hard cash down a black hole.

However it's been done it will be set up to protect their core business and personal assets from too much harm you can be certain of that.

[VinjayV4]

qpr are making a mockery out of FUP.

FUP makes a mockery out of FUP. The whole concept was a sick joke from the start.

[AndyNeil]

Year End Accounts for the period to 30th June 2015 : https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053482/filing-history

Just don't shoot the messenger

[Blandy]

Year End Accounts for the period to 30th June 2015 : https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053482/filing-history

Just don't shoot the messenger

I'm no financial expert but in the report it says Bank of India facilities expired on the 2nd March 2016 but Rovers directors expected it to be renewed, if its not is this the reason there is no funds for Lambert

[tomphil]

edited

[VinjayV4]

VLL shows another 10.8 million £1 shares allotted from the V's this Feb so there should be some brass knocking about.

Correction here its only just over 1 million.

Venkys London Limited share capital stands at 123 million from 29 March this year.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07406020/filing-history

For the Blackburn Rovers listed page its 146 million as of Dec 2015.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053482/filing-history

[tomphil]

Correction here its only just over 1 million.

Venkys London Limited share capital stands at 123 million from 29 March this year.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07406020/filing-history

For the Blackburn Rovers listed page its 146 million as of Dec 2015.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053482/filing-history

So mercer was right then, It's all fookin bonkers anyway. No surprise things don't add up again and there was me getting all optimistic !

[VinjayV4]

Still no notification of Shaw's resignation on either page. As Andy Neil (I think) said on twitter Companies House don't just forget! As you can see there is clear references to previous director resignations.

[BigUts]

Can anyone translate in to real language? I don't really understand said documents

[VinjayV4]

Looked through the filing history (on Blackburn Rovers link not Venkys London Ltd) and there's quite a number of listings. Might be interesting to look at if you haven't seen them before...

Including...

Certificate of inception from 1897. (page 7)

Accounts from 1986, 1987, 1988 and 1989.

Also from 1994 and 1995.

[TBTF]

Can anyone translate in to real language? I don't really understand said documents

Yes -we are goosed. Not a case of is it the end game pal its just a case of how soon.

[BigUts]

Yeah I kind of get that from the amount of "debt" which has been essentially issued as share capital?

The numbers in there are fooking massive and is quite scary. Do these documents tell us anything new?

[Mercer]

_{Had a quick skip through these accounts and big worry is going forward. After this season, parachute monies end and based on these accounts (excluding exceptional items and parachute monies), I would think our 'normal' operating loss is in the £20million+ region (prior to player trading).}

_{At 30 June 2015, net current liabilities (due within 12 months) are £110million (£86million to VLL and £24million 'external' eg bank overdraft, transfer fees payable etc). Out of interest, current debtors included £1.354million owed by parent undertaking (presumably VLL) which I found a bit strange.}

_{Highest paid director (presumably Shaw) had a remuneration package that included salary £158k, pension £17k and other benefits of £4k. Add to that NI payable by the employer (Rovers) of about £20k and you have a cool £200kish !}

_{By the time we finish this season, our debt position will only have worsened.}

_{As I have said before, even if V's gave Rovers away and wrote-off all debt, I think a new owner would still need at least £50million of capital/working capital to get us through the next two seasons.}

_{IMV, It's grim, very grim.}

[Mike Graham]

Serious question: why are the V's still here?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Serious question: why are the V's still here?

I have often thought this - if running us purely as a business they would have put us into administration a few years ago.

I don't know whether it is cultural (i.e. not wanting to be seen to fail etc), a belief that they can recoup their money by some miracle getting us promoted, a tax right off against their other companies, or that they are even richer than we thought and this is just a drop in the ocean for them.

What we need is for them to come to Blackburn - talk to Lambert - give him a reasonable transfer fund. They then need to go to Ewood - risk the irate crowd - and explain how they messed up and how they will put things right. At this point I woke up - so can't remember the rest.

[Neal]

Sorry if this has been discussed/debated or if it's unknown but... Who actually owns the debt? The owners or the club? Or is it a case of the the debt they have massed is fixed against the club putting us in jeopardy?

[koi]

The club, the vast majority of the debt is owed by the club to the owners. They could convert it to equity but I don't think you can convert more that £3m a financial year if you want to meet FFP rules. Would they convert it? doubt it. Why are they here? dunno. Promotion is the obvious solution to all this not only financially but a successful premiership football club could be a very good vehicle for their brand, but that all seems a very distant prospect. Could be tax benefits. How much they are worth varies widely depending on who you talk too; I have been told that the full corporation is huge, a genuine $bn company that is growing fast particularly the vaccine side of things of which they appear to control in the developing world (based in the US I think). On the other hand, my mate Terry reckons they have "f all" and borrow "sh!t loads" to make a small annual profit. Then again, a councillor from Blackburn reckons throwing parties that cost a few hundred k are nothing to them, something like that anyway.

I would like to know how much REAL money they have put in the club and not just put on a balance sheet.

Edit alert: Did Forbes not put them at a personal wealth of £2bn?