[Archived] Animal-Related Cruelty. (Topic Changed)

[T J Hooker]

just a few examples(i could find many many more)

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/slaughter/ALL///

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/harrowing-undercover-footage-butchers-abattoir-5124981

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020151/Abattoir-staffs-shocking-animal-cruelty-filmed-WONT-prosecuted.html

http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/undercover-investigation-shows-harrowing-footage-inside-uk-slaughterhouses/

I think one of the main problems is that people that choose to work on the factory floor in these industrial abattoirs must be pretty backwards and i imagine these places attract the weirdos from society that get there kicks out of hurting animals(it must be like willy wonkas chocolate factory for them sorts)

[Mike E]

just a few examples(i could find many many more)

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/slaughter/ALL///

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/harrowing-undercover-footage-butchers-abattoir-5124981

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020151/Abattoir-staffs-shocking-animal-cruelty-filmed-WONT-prosecuted.html

http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/undercover-investigation-shows-harrowing-footage-inside-uk-slaughterhouses/

I think one of the main problems is that people that choose to work on the factory floor in these industrial abattoirs must be pretty backwards and i imagine these places attract the weirdos from society that get there kicks out of hurting animals(it must be like willy wonkas chocolate factory for them sorts)

Unless they've been offered those jobs to get off the dole? Remember you can't reject a job offer in that position without punishment.

[ABBEY]

just a few examples(i could find many many more)

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/slaughter/ALL///

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/harrowing-undercover-footage-butchers-abattoir-5124981

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020151/Abattoir-staffs-shocking-animal-cruelty-filmed-WONT-prosecuted.html

http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/undercover-investigation-shows-harrowing-footage-inside-uk-slaughterhouses/

I think one of the main problems is that people that choose to work on the factory floor in these industrial abattoirs must be pretty backwards and i imagine these places attract the weirdos from society that get there kicks out of hurting animals(it must be like willy wonkas chocolate factory for them sorts)

do you eat halal?

[T J Hooker]

I'm pretty sure that you could turn down jobs as extreme as these if they offended your senses and/or beliefs, by the looks of some of the videos it seems these places hire a lot of foreign workers(east european, ect..)

just found this http://www.urban75.com/Action/Jsa/jsa5.htmlnot sure how up to date it is but it does say that you can turn down jobs like these without being sanctioned, apparently your only required to apply for jobs by the jsa but you can turn the jobs down if you have legitimate reasons for not wanting to take the job.

do you eat halal?

missing(or ingnoring) the point as usual just so you can try to score points with your tedius 'leading questions'

[Tom]

do you eat halal?

I would be surprised if anyone on here who isn't a vegetarian doesn't, we all like a good curry don't we?

It's why I never get on a soap box about halal and other forms of slaughtering and conditions the animals are kept in, it's not nice at all but I don't care enough about it to go vegetarian so im pretty much a hypocrite over it.

[T J Hooker]

in an ideal world(one where i have much more money) id only buy meat products from butchers and places that can prove that the animals where raised and slaughtered in an ethical way, sadly though like most I can't afford to be so picky and I couldn't live a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle so all we can really do is keep putting pressure on the food industry to be more ethical and transparent.

[ABBEY]

Ok so you pick n choose which animals it's ok to be cruel to .

[K-Hod]

I suspect many do Abbey- I guarantee we've all eaten chicken that have been battery farmed.....

[Paul]

Anyone who objects to animal cruelty needs to stop buying any supermarket chicken or meat, stop eating in KFC, McDonalds, etc, etc. (why do you think it's so cheap?). While there may not be any actual cruelty the husbandry conditions are far from ideal. Objecting to different forms of slaughter while shopping in these places is rank hypocrisy.

Find a real farm shop - not one that buys in Aunty Mabel's chutney and Farmer Fred's beef - that grows its own produce. Spout House Farm is a great example. Watch the lambs in their pens and fields and eat them a few weeks later. No more expensive than Tesco and blows supermarkets out of the water for quality. Takes a but if effort though

As for curry houses? Ha!

[Al]

Anyone who objects to animal cruelty needs to stop buying any supermarket chicken or meat, stop eating in KFC, McDonalds, etc, etc. (why do you think it's so cheap?). While there may not be any actual cruelty the husbandry conditions are far from ideal. Objecting to different forms of slaughter while shopping in these places is rank hypocrisy.

Find a real farm shop - not one that buys in Aunty Mabel's chutney and Farmer Fred's beef - that grows its own produce. Spout House Farm is a great example. Watch the lambs in their pens and fields and eat them a few weeks later. No more expensive than Tesco and blows supermarkets out of the water for quality. Takes a but if effort though

As for curry houses? Ha!

It's not hypocrisy Paul. The least I can do is not to buy any meat that I know to have been killed in the Halal way. It's not perfect but it's the best I can do. Most of my curries are beef and made at home from ingredients from my local butchers. The sauces are bought from a Chinese wholesalers in Manchester.

[ABBEY]

Anyone who objects to animal cruelty needs to stop buying any supermarket chicken or meat, stop eating in KFC, McDonalds, etc, etc. (why do you think it's so cheap?). While there may not be any actual cruelty the husbandry conditions are far from ideal. Objecting to different forms of slaughter while shopping in these places is rank hypocrisy.

Find a real farm shop - not one that buys in Aunty Mabel's chutney and Farmer Fred's beef - that grows its own produce. Spout House Farm is a great example. Watch the lambs in their pens and fields and eat them a few weeks later. No more expensive than Tesco and blows supermarkets out of the water for quality. Takes a but if effort though

As for curry houses? Ha!

KFC

We demand good animal welfare, and all our suppliers must meet or exceed Red Tractor standards.

All our chickens are reared in large barns that are typically bedded with wood shavings or chopped straw. They are free to roam within these barns and the stocking density (number of chickens per barn) is defined by the Red Tractor standard so they have more space and better conditions than the legal minimum.

MCD

Sustainable sourcing, smarter packaging

We are committed to using quality ingredients in our food, reducing the food miles of our products and supporting the local economy. We also continue to reduce the amount of material we use in our packaging, much of which is sourced renewably.

Supporting UK farming

We source all of our beef from British and Irish farms. In 2014 we cooked over 128 million free range eggs for breakfast – all of which came from farms in Britain and Ireland. We also used over 62 million litres of milk from the UK, which included the 24 million litres of organic semi-skimmed milk used in our teas, coffees, porridges and Happy Meal® milk bottles.

Sustainable sourcing

Every cup of tea and coffee we sell is Rainforest Alliance certified, so we know that the farms which supply these products work to high environmental standards, and are dedicated to protecting the welfare of their workers. All of the fish on our menu is Marine Stewardship Council approved, meaning that it comes from well-managed fisheries which use sustainable fishing practices.

CURRIES

Yes Halal and its a case go with the flow on this.However not had a curry in ages now.

[T J Hooker]

Can I just Go back A bit, the subject i was objecting to was the hideous cruelty to dogs in the greyhound industry where dogs are mutilated, abandoned, tortured, killed, culled..... all in the name of 'sport' just so people have one other thing to bet on. Fox hunting folk got vilified for killing animals for sport(and rightly so) but greyhound racing is relatively accepted, maybe its a class thing?

[Biddy]

CURRIES

Yes Halal and its a case go with the flow

[Paul]

KFC

We demand good animal welfare, and all our suppliers must meet or exceed Red Tractor standards.

All our chickens are reared in large barns that are typically bedded with wood shavings or chopped straw. They are free to roam within these barns and the stocking density (number of chickens per barn) is defined by the Red Tractor standard so they have more space and better conditions than the legal minimum.

MCD

Sustainable sourcing, smarter packaging

We are committed to using quality ingredients in our food, reducing the food miles of our products and supporting the local economy. We also continue to reduce the amount of material we use in our packaging, much of which is sourced renewably.

Supporting UK farming

We source all of our beef from British and Irish farms. In 2014 we cooked over 128 million free range eggs for breakfast – all of which came from farms in Britain and Ireland. We also used over 62 million litres of milk from the UK, which included the 24 million litres of organic semi-skimmed milk used in our teas, coffees, porridges and Happy Meal® milk bottles.

Sustainable sourcing

Every cup of tea and coffee we sell is Rainforest Alliance certified, so we know that the farms which supply these products work to high environmental standards, and are dedicated to protecting the welfare of their workers. All of the fish on our menu is Marine Stewardship Council approved, meaning that it comes from well-managed fisheries which use sustainable fishing practices.

CURRIES

Yes Halal and its a case go with the flow on this.However not had a curry in ages now.

Yes but have you taken the time to investigate what this means? Anyone can cut and paste from a company website. The wool is being pulled over the public's eyes by this sort of stuff. Tesco even make up farm names and slap it on overseas produce to make it look all warm and cosy!

To take one of your examples, the Rainforest Alliance. In September 2015 Harrods stopped selling some teas certified by the RA. PG Tips, Twinings and Liptons, all buying from the same tea plantations as Harrods which are certified by the Rainforest Alliance, said they would work to improve conditions on the RA certified plantations. This followed investigations which found examples of child labour, accomodation with leaking roofs and damp walls, no toilets, workers have to defecate in the plantations. Nine out of ten patients from these tea plantations were found to be malnourished. One estate was found to have 464 toilets for 740 houses.

Under Indian law a plantation worker's wage includes housing and sanitation.

That's the Rainforest Alliance certification which McDonalds are holding up as an example of their sustainable sourcing. It means nothing.

[Biddy]

On the flip side Paul, I can see Abbey's point that, we as consumers, are trying to do the right things in using "ethical" retailers. We can only go off the information given and it's only when extensive investigations are carried out that we find otherwise. We as consumers then put pressure on and wish the retailers to do the right thing.

We can't obviously solve all the wrongs in the world, but we can be seen to be doing the right thing.

[Paul]

Yes I get that Biddy but the question always has to be why is it cheap? Someone, somewhere is paying the price.

I've sat with a buyer who wanted to source plants grown in peat composts which matched certain green criteria. He told me this "So long as you can produce an invoice I don't care." In other words do whatever you wish so long as you can prove we've been ethical.

I should add we made sure we sourced the product correctly and used it as specified.

[T J Hooker]

Going back to the articles/videos that abbey and I posted, the animal cruelty going on in those is mostly down to extreme human cruelty by the employees of the meat processing plants, these things do need to be stamped out, theres no excuse for it.

[Amo]

"Ethical slaughter" is an interesting term.

[T J Hooker]

Quick and efficient would be a start

[MCMC1875]

This thread's gone to the dogs!

[donnermeat]

http://www.cracked.com/article_15967_the-awful-truth-behind-5-items-probably-your-grocery-list.html

[Husky]

What are people's views on choking the chicken?

[ABBEY]

I prefer spanking the monkey

[T J Hooker]

herding the goat

[Mike E]

Charming the snake