[Archived] Renew Or Not Renew

[Gav]

You are right Gav. If this was going on in the 70's or 80's then Rovers fans would be in uproar.

I have rarely met such a lilly liver bunch of fans. If the V's force fed them poison chicken they would probably thank them for the free fowl.

I am on the verge of giving in the towel.

The owners don't care and the fan base are castrated eunuchs.

It may be time to start supporting and following black pudding throwing.

Absolutely

Can you imagine asking the police if we could have a demonstration back then It was on to Nuttall street after the game, Fox Out, Saxton out, mounted police and you got your point across, not disappear home blaming Sky TV then watching the bl00dy thing for the rest of the week!

Times have changed I know, mostly for the better, but christ we could do with some fans with some b0llox, at least you'd feel like you tried instead of surrendering silently into oblivion.

[gumboots]

I don't understand this concept of protesting or this concept of whether to renew or not. I understand fans are hurting under the Venky's regime, I understand the issues we have had with Shebby, Kean, Anderson, and so many others to name. To me football and your club should never be a question whether you should turn up or no. Having grown up in Wimbledon within a Family of Wimbledon supporters, I saw the issues they had in the 90's and the whole MK Dons, to creating AFC Wimbledon. Trust me what they have gone through is far worse than us because they at least had they club ripped away from their hands and knees and had to restarts in the 8th Division. Through thick or thin no matter what people throw at us we should always stand tall and stand by the team you support.

We fundamentally are the only constant in football. Players come and go as do owners. I think the only thing the club should do is bring the crowd back with cheap cheap season tickets. Fundementally Blackburn Town is not like London or Manchester, the income levels aren't great and the town itself prospers when their is a feel good spirit around the place which Blackburn Rovers can and have delivered in the past years. For me in Venky's position i would go with the idea of having a season ticket at 120 pounds a year to fill up the stadium as much as you possibly can. Go for volume in the stadium to create a dam good atmosphere. Giving fans cheap tickets prices is a way of at least building a bridge as it gives people to come back at such a low price. At least it gives the club the chance to build on additional revenue because people will always spend money at a match.

try giving your season ticket to someone to use if you can't get to a match. You can't give them away. It's not the price that puts people off, or at least not price alone. It's the dreary turgid rubbish that's served up week in, week out and the inevitability of conceding at least one goal that makes people unwilling to commit their hard earned cash. Many followers of clubs that have enjoyed far less success than we have are still prepared to commit because they know that the owners and hierarchy are supporting the club as far as they can. We know our manager wants to take us forward but his ability to do so is being hampered by the ignorant couldn't care less attitude of our owners and the absence of any structure at the club to support him.

[VinjayV4]

Absolutely

Can you imagine asking the police if we could have a demonstration back then It was on to Nuttall street after the game, Fox Out, Saxton out, mounted police and you got your point across, not disappear home blaming Sky TV then watching the bl00dy thing for the rest of the week!

Times have changed I know, mostly for the better, but christ we could do with some fans with some b0llox, at least you'd feel like you tried instead of surrendering silently into oblivion.

So go down to Ewood right now and do something ballsy then.

[roverstdt]

try giving your season ticket to someone to use if you can't get to a match. You can't give them away. It's not the price that puts people off, or at least not price alone. It's the dreary turgid rubbish that's served up week in, week out and the inevitability of conceding at least one goal that makes people unwilling to commit their hard earned cash. Many followers of clubs that have enjoyed far less success than we have are still prepared to commit because they know that the owners and hierarchy are supporting the club as far as they can. We know our manager wants to take us forward but his ability to do so is being hampered by the ignorant couldn't care less attitude of our owners and the absence of any structure at the club to support him.

I understand and respect that completely, however I know i revert back to the case of Wimbledon but under Olssen and the Norwegian Ownership it was far worse and yet the support level never dwindle. Yes there were protests and yes the fans were unhappy but they still turned up.

I know people wouldn't want to waste their hard earn cash on watching terrible football but to me and maybe I miss understand what a football fan is but regardless as to the football you play you are there through the good and the bad.

On the other side in Venky's defense why should they spends more? Yes we are heavily in debt due to them, yes they have miss managed the club tremendously from A to Z no hiding behind that but there is still 80M+ of debt towards them and the ship still needs to be steadied. Unfortunately it is a vicious circle, fans want Venky's to put cash into the club, but on the other hand why should they? Attendances are falling, there are less assets, what is the incentive to invest? You have a good manager in place, a fantastic academy in place, in their eyes they will just think we can trim the wage bill promote the youth, sign a few players here and there and be a good championship team.

For me you need to turn up through thick and thin, and give the team something for them to get behind.

[VinjayV4]

I understand and respect that completely, however I know i revert back to the case of Wimbledon but under Olssen and the Norwegian Ownership it was far worse and yet the support level never dwindle. Yes there were protests and yes the fans were unhappy but they still turned up.

I know people wouldn't want to waste their hard earn cash on watching terrible football but to me and maybe I miss understand what a football fan is but regardless as to the football you play you are there through the good and the bad.

On the other side in Venky's defense why should they spends more? Yes we are heavily in debt due to them, yes they have miss managed the club tremendously from A to Z no hiding behind that but there is still 80M+ of debt towards them and the ship still needs to be steadied. Unfortunately it is a vicious circle, fans want Venky's to put cash into the club, but on the other hand why should they? Attendances are falling, there are less assets, what is the incentive to invest? You have a good manager in place, a fantastic academy in place, in their eyes they will just think we can trim the wage bill promote the youth, sign a few players here and there and be a good championship team.

For me you need to turn up through thick and thin, and give the team something for them to get behind.

Oh shut the hell up.

[gumboots]

Yes but you suggested that cheaper tickets would be a possible answer. I'm telling you why I don't think they are. People are not fans like they were. The leisure pound has a lot of pressure on it and for lots of people who are not dyed in the wool rovers fans but would like to support their local team the product, ie the football on show, has to be worth what they're paying. If it's not then they have plenty of other choices. Those who go on about supporting your team through thick and thin because that's what your dad, his dad, his grandad did are missing the point about modern society. More people have more choice. Fewer people stay in the area where they were born. People move and their roots don't go down as far. Ignore the quality of what you are offering at your peril. You may not think people should stop supporting and in reality they probably don't. But stop attending they will whilst checking rovers score on the internet. Easy information access means that you can follow your team doing more or less whatever you want.

I'm not saying the raos should throw loads of money at the club, but we need a proper structure with day to day decisions about the running of the club taken here in Blackburn, within an agreed budget. Anything beyond that can be referred to India if necessary but it shouldn't involve the manager or anyone else travelling out there. That's not rocket science. It's how most clubs are run.

[roverstdt]

Yes but you suggested that cheaper tickets would be a possible answer. I'm telling you why I don't think they are. People are not fans like they were. The leisure pound has a lot of pressure on it and for lots of people who are not dyed in the wool rovers fans but would like to support their local team the product, ie the football on show, has to be worth what they're paying. If it's not then they have plenty of other choices. Those who go on about supporting your team through thick and thin because that's what your dad, his dad, his grandad did are missing the point about modern society. More people have more choice. Fewer people stay in the area where they were born. People move and their roots don't go down as far. Ignore the quality of what you are offering at your peril. You may not think people should stop supporting and in reality they probably don't. But stop attending they will whilst checking rovers score on the internet. Easy information access means that you can follow your team doing more or less whatever you want.

I'm not saying the raos should throw loads of money at the club, but we need a proper structure with day to day decisions about the running of the club taken here in Blackburn, within an agreed budget. Anything beyond that can be referred to India if necessary but it shouldn't involve the manager or anyone else travelling out there. That's not rocket science. It's how most clubs are run.

Agreed .

[Claytons Left Boot]

So go down to Ewood right now and do something ballsy then.

There's no real point, EastlandsboyV4, because the majority of our support needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet and they're clearly not.

As ABBEY has recently indicated in another thread, if you vent your feelings against the chicken farmers, the chances are you'll get shouted down by other (clueless) fans of ours. Protests have to be undertaken en masse or at least by a significant number of supporters.

I never saw any Blackpool fans sticking up for the Oystons or Charlton fans doing the same for their owners. They were all in it together. We would have been in the 70s or 80s and, in fact we were, on Nuttall Street in 1971 after relegation to the 3rd. The modern Rovers support is a joke and an embarrassment.

[JHRover]

I understand and respect that completely, however I know i revert back to the case of Wimbledon but under Olssen and the Norwegian Ownership it was far worse and yet the support level never dwindle. Yes there were protests and yes the fans were unhappy but they still turned up.

I know people wouldn't want to waste their hard earn cash on watching terrible football but to me and maybe I miss understand what a football fan is but regardless as to the football you play you are there through the good and the bad.

On the other side in Venky's defense why should they spends more? Yes we are heavily in debt due to them, yes they have miss managed the club tremendously from A to Z no hiding behind that but there is still 80M+ of debt towards them and the ship still needs to be steadied. Unfortunately it is a vicious circle, fans want Venky's to put cash into the club, but on the other hand why should they? Attendances are falling, there are less assets, what is the incentive to invest? You have a good manager in place, a fantastic academy in place, in their eyes they will just think we can trim the wage bill promote the youth, sign a few players here and there and be a good championship team.

For me you need to turn up through thick and thin, and give the team something for them to get behind.

13,000 home fans have turned up every season since relegation, despite everything they have done to run the club into the ground. 13,000 fans as a Championship club despite the chaos of the Kean/Berg/Appleton/Singh season is a decent effort.

The incentive for Venkys to invest is that it is the only chance they have of getting their money back and the only chance they have of repairing their reputation and salvaging this 'investment'.

Attendances are falling and there are less assets because of Venkys. If they ran the club properly, got season tickets on sale early, put a proper structure in place, supported the manager they have just appointed, communicated, engaged with the fanbase and spent some money on decent quality players then things might look different.

Player trading over the last 3 years has seen them pocket in excess of £20 million by selling our quality players and replacing them with freebies and cheap cast offs. For a long time they were able to disguise that as getting the books in order and trying to comply with FFP, so perhaps the most bizarre aspect of their recent tenure has been going to the trouble of getting the embargo lifted.

There's only so long you can continue to treat the fans like mugs. Charlton and Blackpool are 2-3 years behind us on the path to oblivion. We've had this rubbish now since 2010 and the vast majority have had enough of it now after yet another false dawn with Lambert. Most have had the fight knocked out of them as it is clearly futile.

Charlton and Blackpool fans will learn as much in another 2 or 3 years time if their owners are still in situ.

[tomphil]

I don't understand this concept of protesting or this concept of whether to renew or not. I understand fans are hurting under the Venky's regime, I understand the issues we have had with Shebby, Kean, Anderson, and so many others to name. To me football and your club should never be a question whether you should turn up or no. Having grown up in Wimbledon within a Family of Wimbledon supporters, I saw the issues they had in the 90's and the whole MK Dons, to creating AFC Wimbledon. Trust me what they have gone through is far worse than us because they at least had they club ripped away from their hands and knees and had to restarts in the 8th Division. Through thick or thin no matter what people throw at us we should always stand tall and stand by the team you support.

We fundamentally are the only constant in football. Players come and go as do owners. I think the only thing the club should do is bring the crowd back with cheap cheap season tickets. Fundementally Blackburn Town is not like London or Manchester, the income levels aren't great and the town itself prospers when their is a feel good spirit around the place which Blackburn Rovers can and have delivered in the past years. For me in Venky's position i would go with the idea of having a season ticket at 120 pounds a year to fill up the stadium as much as you possibly can. Go for volume in the stadium to create a dam good atmosphere. Giving fans cheap tickets prices is a way of at least building a bridge as it gives people to come back at such a low price. At least it gives the club the chance to build on additional revenue because people will always spend money at a match.

Understand your views and agree to a certain extent but your missing the point here with why people are threatening to jack. If they pulled the plug and we really went into desperate times I and thousands of others wouldn't think twice about attending. It runs much deeper with the venkys ownership, they've @#/? all over the club and fans since they bought it and just how can people strike back ?

The only way many people know is to stick 2 fingers up at them and stay away.

Agree on the St's IF they are just going to rumble on as the last few years then a huge gesture will be needed to hold onto the regular fans and re engage with others. If they are going to try and move it forwards even a little bit then just freeze the prices. If they spend 15/20 I don't think anyone would complain with a sensible increase either.

[gumboots]

We used to pay far more for our season tickets when we had 4 kids at home or uni and FAR less disposable income. It's not all about cash.

[tomphil]

I understand and respect that completely, however I know i revert back to the case of Wimbledon but under Olssen and the Norwegian Ownership it was far worse and yet the support level never dwindle. Yes there were protests and yes the fans were unhappy but they still turned up.

I know people wouldn't want to waste their hard earn cash on watching terrible football but to me and maybe I miss understand what a football fan is but regardless as to the football you play you are there through the good and the bad.

On the other side in Venky's defense why should they spends more? Yes we are heavily in debt due to them, yes they have miss managed the club tremendously from A to Z no hiding behind that but there is still 80M+ of debt towards them and the ship still needs to be steadied. Unfortunately it is a vicious circle, fans want Venky's to put cash into the club, but on the other hand why should they? Attendances are falling, there are less assets, what is the incentive to invest? You have a good manager in place, a fantastic academy in place, in their eyes they will just think we can trim the wage bill promote the youth, sign a few players here and there and be a good championship team.

For me you need to turn up through thick and thin, and give the team something for them to get behind.

Do FC Wimbledon get the same crowds as they did in the leagues now ? I doubt it so point proven.

[VinjayV4]

There's no real point, EastlandsboyV4, because the majority of our support needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet and they're clearly not.

As ABBEY has recently indicated in another thread, if you vent your feelings against the chicken farmers, the chances are you'll get shouted down by other (clueless) fans of ours. Protests have to be undertaken en masse or at least by a significant number of supporters.

I never saw any Blackpool fans sticking up for the Oystons or Charlton fans doing the same for their owners. They were all in it together. We would have been in the 70s or 80s and, in fact we were, on Nuttall Street in 1971 after relegation to the 3rd. The modern Rovers support is a joke and an embarrassment.

Yeah keep bullying perhaps one day you will push someone too far. Probably what you want but you won't get the satisfaction with me.

[Mattyblue]

Don't get the Wimbledon comparison?

Their support completely collapsed when the Norwegians were running the club in to the ground.

[tomphil]

Don't get the Wimbledon comparison?

Their support completely collapsed when the Norwegians were running the club in to the ground.

I think that geezer is on a wum there's no comparison whatsoever to us and Wimbledon. If ever a tiny club lived the dream and got way above it's station it was them. They had money behind them then as well but I don't think they ever had more than 5k fans anyway.

[Stuart]

There's no real point, EastlandsboyV4, because the majority of our support needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet and they're clearly not.

As ABBEY has recently indicated in another thread, if you vent your feelings against the chicken farmers, the chances are you'll get shouted down by other (clueless) fans of ours. Protests have to be undertaken en masse or at least by a significant number of supporters.

[bI never saw any Blackpool fans sticking up for the Oystons or Charlton fans doing the same for their owners. They were all in it together[/b]. We would have been in the 70s or 80s and, in fact we were, on Nuttall Street in 1971 after relegation to the 3rd. The modern Rovers support is a joke and an embarrassment.

Great point. The excuses some make for Venkys is embarrassing. But worse, when done publicly it is divisive.

[Jimmy612]

You are right Gav. If this was going on in the 70's or 80's then Rovers fans would be in uproar.

I have rarely met such a lilly liver bunch of fans. If the V's force fed them poison chicken they would probably thank them for the free fowl.

I am on the verge of giving in the towel.

The owners don't care and the fan base are castrated eunuchs.

It may be time to start supporting and following black pudding throwing.

I was at the protests a few years back during the Kean/Anderson saga and actually the majority of the protesters were under 40, which would make them a maximum of about 8 or 9 in the supposed hay day of the 'Blackburn Massive'. Hope you two aren't making the mistake of thinking the younger generation are the only ones guilty of being lily-livered. I've a suspicion that a lot of your generation bent over and accepted the current regime too.

I remember the sneers and ridicule I got for trying to drum up support for the 24 hour protest outside Ewood before the Fulham game. It was almost as though to protest was embarrassing and people didn't want to have the p*ss taken out of them for trying to make a difference.

That may have been as a result of the battering we took in the media, no doubt engineered by a certain Super Agent.... lest we forget: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2086359/Steve-Kean-interview-Matt-Lawton.html

[Gav]

I was at the protests a few years back during the Kean/Anderson saga and actually the majority of the protesters were under 40, which would make them a maximum of about 8 or 9 in the supposed hay day of the 'Blackburn Massive'. Hope you two aren't making the mistake of thinking the younger generation are the only ones guilty of being lily-livered. I've a suspicion that a lot of your generation bent over and accepted the current regime too.

I remember the sneers and ridicule I got for trying to drum up support for the 24 hour protest outside Ewood before the Fulham game. It was almost as though to protest was embarrassing and people didn't want to have the p*ss taken out of them for trying to make a difference.

That may have been as a result of the battering we took in the media, no doubt engineered by a certain Super Agent.... lest we forget: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2086359/Steve-Kean-interview-Matt-Lawton.html

Gordon, you can't pop on here, throw a hand granade and pop off again and expect to be taken seriously

You should have shown a little more steel and fought your corner to stay on here, then you'd have had a little more credibility.

How the hell are you by the way?

[tomphil]

It's more a case of 'then and now' around the whole country, everyone rolls over and just takes it in general it seems. Being a youngster in the 80's you just looked at the tv and saw it kicking off all the time. Not just at the footy but in general when people were unhappy about something they took it to the streets.

Just a sign of the times, look how long it's taken Charltons fans to actually blow a gasket, we blew far quicker than them. Look at the size and passion of the fanbases of Villa and Newcastle yet let's be right their protests have been quite tame so far. Full scale riots would probably have kicked off in previous generations.

It's just the way it is now.

[Gav]

Times have changed tomphil, I said as much earlier, but we're heading towards league 1, £120m in debt, no board structure and seemingly a manager about to walk after being lied to.

How much more are fans going to take? It keeps me up at night...

[tomphil]

Somehow I think we'll have a whole season of kicking off next season, well maybe half a dozen of us

[Jimmy612]

Gordon, you can't pop on here, throw a hand granade and pop off again and expect to be taken seriously

You should have shown a little more steel and fought your corner to stay on here, then you'd have had a little more credibility.

How the hell are you by the way?

Not like you to shoot from the hip, Gav Why would Gordon defend the younger generation when actually his hay-day would have been 70s & 80s too?

I'm just suggesting that all this teary-eyed nostalgia is all well and good but where were the billy big-balls 5 years ago when push came to shove? Because most (or a damn good percentage) of the participants I saw were under 40....

Not only that but I worked in a pub at the time that the majority crowd would have been 50+ - and I can tell you that hardly any supported the idea of a protest.

[Gav]

Not like you to shoot from the hip, Gav Why would Gordon defend the younger generation when actually his hay-day would have been 70s & 80s too?

I'm just suggesting that all this teary-eyed nostalgia is all well and good but where were the billy big-balls 5 years ago when push came to shove? Because most (or a damn good percentage) of the participants I saw were under 40....

Not only that but I worked in a pub at the time that the majority crowd would have been 50+ - and I can tell you that hardly any supported the idea of a protest.

Tell him I miss him anyway

But 5yrs ago is no different to now, hardly anyone can be bothered, we had 100 tops on the marches and I'm being generous at that, its just not worth it for 99% of the support.

The ones 'leading' the protests back in the 80's actually thought it a good idea to attack the protesters this time around, WFT is that about? not a brain cell between them, protesters stealing the limelight, we can't have that.....

[roverstdt]

Do FC Wimbledon get the same crowds as they did in the leagues now ? I doubt it so point proven.

At the moment no as the stadium doesn't have the capacity however they will be moving into a 15,000 stadium which is estimated that the will get attendances of 11 to 12k per match which for a League Two team is sensational and not far off Rovers...

[Mike Graham]

We used to pay far more for our season tickets when we had 4 kids at home or uni and FAR less disposable income. It's not all about cash.

Agreed, it is nothing to do with cash. You cannot give tickets away at Ewood.