[Archived] Renew Or Not Renew

[roverstdt]

Don't get the Wimbledon comparison?

Their support completely collapsed when the Norwegians were running the club in to the ground.

That the mistake the support never collapsed it fought right to the end and even when the club was taken away from them they still have high attendances of up to 6 to 7k in the lower leagues where seating and standing regulations are not in place.

I think that geezer is on a wum there's no comparison whatsoever to us and Wimbledon. If ever a tiny club lived the dream and got way above it's station it was them. They had money behind them then as well but I don't think they ever had more than 5k fans anyway.

Hahahaha Look at their attendances in the 90's way above 5k and the comparison is to show how they went through far worse times and the fans stuck together. The issue is other people mentioned we have a far too fragmented fan base so therefore it is hard to find a solution

[Mattyblue]

Wimbledon's support in the ground did collapse, in their last season at Selhurst Park, that had some crowds of 2/3000.

Not saying they weren't boycotting or campaigning elsewhere- they were in the midst of setting up AFC Wimbledon.

Our problem is nobody is doing anything at the ground or anywhere else, fans are just drifting away.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Hope you two aren't making the mistake of thinking the younger generation are the only ones guilty of being lily-livered. I've a suspicion that a lot of your generation bent over and accepted the current regime too.

]

I think the point that is being made is that in the 70s and 80s the fans would have done more and with regard to protesting, protests would have just happened in a spontaneous way rather than being orchestrated.

In my formative years, we went down Blackburn. Under age drinking in the Dirty Duck and any other pubs that would serve us. The Mecca nightclub. Everyone (well almost) followed the Rovers and away trips in the early to mid 70s in particular were a joy. League Liner and the Ewood Express. You got to know lads that followed the Rovers because you saw them around town, in the pubs and nightclubs. It sounds cheesy but there was a real togetherness about Blackburn at that time. There were a lot of scrapes in those days following the lads away with all the hooliganism and sometimes you were glad to get back in one piece. But, you cut one (pardon the pun) and everyone bled. Everyone was in it together.

I don't think we were intimating that all those who protested down the years would necessarily have protested over the last five years or so. Hell, when I protested in 1971 I was a young teenager. Whilst I would be prepared to once again do my bit, if I tried running on the pitch now, I'd probably only make the penalty spot! In the main, it's got to be down to the 18-35 age group with others who feel the need. You've also got to take into account that a lot of fans in their 50s live well away from Lancashire and, whilst still support the club to a certain degree, nevertheless are somewhat detached. Of the lads I used to walk down/go to Ewood with, one is in Toronto, one in Liverpool, two in the Midlands, one in Barcelona, one in Cheshire somewhere and I am in Northwich.

To reiterate my original point, back in the day, any protests would have just happened. No need for endless debates, who's in who's out, should we tell the authorities or not, none of that, they would have happened spontaneously.

[ABBEY]

I think the point that is being made is that in the 70s and 80s the fans would have done more and with regard to protesting, protests would have just happened in a spontaneous way rather than being orchestrated.

In my formative years, we went down Blackburn. Under age drinking in the Dirty Duck and any other pubs that would serve us. The Mecca nightclub. Everyone (well almost) followed the Rovers and away trips in the early to mid 70s in particular were a joy. League Liner and the Ewood Express. You got to know lads that followed the Rovers because you saw them around town, in the pubs and nightclubs. It sounds cheesy but there was a real togetherness about Blackburn at that time. There were a lot of scrapes in those days following the lads away with all the hooliganism and sometimes you were glad to get back in one piece. But, you cut one (pardon the pun) and everyone bled. Everyone was in it together.

I don't think we were intimating that all those who protested down the years would necessarily have protested over the last five years or so. Hell, when I protested in 1971 I was a young teenager. Whilst I would be prepared to once again do my bit, if I tried running on the pitch now, I'd probably only make the penalty spot! In the main, it's got to be down to the 18-35 age group with others who feel the need. You've also got to take into account that a lot of fans in their 50s live well away from Lancashire and, whilst still support the club to a certain degree, nevertheless are somewhat detached. Of the lads I used to walk down/go to Ewood with, one is in Toronto, one in Liverpool, two in the Midlands, one in Barcelona, one in Cheshire somewhere and I am in Northwich.

To reiterate my original point, back in the day, any protests would have just happened. No need for endless debates, who's in who's out, should we tell the authorities or not, none of that, they would have happened spontaneously.

booooom

[Gav]

I think the point that is being made is that in the 70s and 80s the fans would have done more and with regard to protesting, protests would have just happened in a spontaneous way rather than being orchestrated.

In my formative years, we went down Blackburn. Under age drinking in the Dirty Duck and any other pubs that would serve us. The Mecca nightclub. Everyone (well almost) followed the Rovers and away trips in the early to mid 70s in particular were a joy. League Liner and the Ewood Express. You got to know lads that followed the Rovers because you saw them around town, in the pubs and nightclubs. It sounds cheesy but there was a real togetherness about Blackburn at that time. There were a lot of scrapes in those days following the lads away with all the hooliganism and sometimes you were glad to get back in one piece. But, you cut one (pardon the pun) and everyone bled. Everyone was in it together.

I don't think we were intimating that all those who protested down the years would necessarily have protested over the last five years or so. Hell, when I protested in 1971 I was a young teenager. Whilst I would be prepared to once again do my bit, if I tried running on the pitch now, I'd probably only make the penalty spot! In the main, it's got to be down to the 18-35 age group with others who feel the need. You've also got to take into account that a lot of fans in their 50s live well away from Lancashire and, whilst still support the club to a certain degree, nevertheless are somewhat detached. Of the lads I used to walk down/go to Ewood with, one is in Toronto, one in Liverpool, two in the Midlands, one in Barcelona, one in Cheshire somewhere and I am in Northwich.

To reiterate my original point, back in the day, any protests would have just happened. No need for endless debates, who's in who's out, should we tell the authorities or not, none of that, they would have happened spontaneously.

Brilliant post CLB, how times have changed.

[Stuart]

It's true. The most effective and popular protests are organic.

The problem is that back in the day - and even as recently as Paul Ince's day - the club would react and to the protests.

Under this lot there is no reaction - or any response is at such a glacial pace that by the time it has happened we've lost another 5000 fans!

[tomphil]

That the mistake the support never collapsed it fought right to the end and even when the club was taken away from them they still have high attendances of up to 6 to 7k in the lower leagues where seating and standing regulations are not in place.

Hahahaha Look at their attendances in the 90's way above 5k and the comparison is to show how they went through far worse times and the fans stuck together. The issue is other people mentioned we have a far too fragmented fan base so therefore it is hard to find a solution

I said 5k real fans their crowds in the 90's were often made up of away fans taking over the ground, literally. Look on youtube at their bog standard games and the place was often empty.

Don't get me wrong I like the old Wimbledon and what they were all about, watched that film about them recently and thought it was great. When it comes to the crowd thing though I think your romancing a bit. They came to Ewood once in the Prem and there were 83 of them, just always a small club.

Your absolutely 100% correct on the fragmented bit though and god only knows how to correct that. Especially when you think we are down to the hardcore 10/11k in the ground most matches yet they can be probably divided into 3 or 4 groups.

One thing I will say to people who bizarrely still think the V's will come good is just stand back for a minute and look at everything that's happened since last summer. The Lambert appointment aside which I believe to be a last throw of the dice and a bit more window dressing it all only points one way, the way of Bolton Wanderers. Only difference is their club hasn't been wilfully and neglectfully smashed to pieces by a collection of chancers. thieves and con artists!

[Pedro]

Absolutely

Can you imagine asking the police if we could have a demonstration back then It was on to Nuttall street after the game, Fox Out, Saxton out, mounted police and you got your point across, not disappear home blaming Sky TV then watching the bl00dy thing for the rest of the week!

Times have changed I know, mostly for the better, but christ we could do with some fans with some b0llox, at least you'd feel like you tried instead of surrendering silently into oblivion.

I think you are almost cottoning on to the problem in your arguement/stance. It isn't the 70's or 80's and people are very different. They are feared up to the nines. Everyone is easily trackable, findable and accountable in the digital/camera ridden age - all part of the larger plan in my opinion. You are right, it is ridiculous that you have to jump through hoops and health and safety nonsense to lead a March - but by doing that, it instantly dilutes the anger. People think that by having a Facebook page or online petition is opposition...laughable really, who's going to fear that? Yet every now and again there will be a news story pretending that it has made a difference and someone in power has sat up and taken notice (often some contrived nonsense fronted by Jamie Oliver or something) absolute nonsense. The power isn't with the people anymore, a feeling of helplessness and apathy rules throughout society and Ewood is just a microcosm of that.

[Gav]

I think you are almost cottoning on to the problem in your arguement/stance. It isn't the 70's or 80's and people are very different. They are feared up to the nines. Everyone is easily trackable, findable and accountable in the digital/camera ridden age - all part of the larger plan in my opinion. You are right, it is ridiculous that you have to jump through hoops and health and safety nonsense to lead a March - but by doing that, it instantly dilutes the anger. People think that by having a Facebook page or online petition is opposition...laughable really, who's going to fear that? Yet every now and again there will be a news story pretending that it has made a difference and someone in power has sat up and taken notice (often some contrived nonsense fronted by Jamie Oliver or something) absolute nonsense. The power isn't with the people anymore, a feeling of helplessness and apathy rules throughout society and Ewood is just a microcosm of that.

I think you sum things up very well Pedro, times have changed, society has changed and for the better in most cases.

I will just say one thing, why can Blackpool fans protest against that prat Oyston and get a game abandoned, yet our fans can't even turn up to walk down Bolton Road to protest against the manager? or owners? or directors robbing a living? or agents robbing the club?

Some of the excuses on here were embarrassing, the whole sorry affair is embarrassing and the fans did nothing, still do nothing.

Just on the renew or not renew:

I'm so frustrated with the situation that I'm considering buying a season ticket at Rangers next season. I'm not a massive Rangers fan, in fact I'm not a Rangers fan at all, but if i had to choose between Celtic and Rangers it would be Rangers every time.

One of the biggest pulls is the Old Firm games, I've only ever been to 1 back in 80's and it was a fantastic experience that I'd like to do again. I'd not get to many games, but its an option and not impacting on Rovers other than my absence from games. I've also considered egg chasing at Worcester Warriors but it'll be full of posh folk that drive Range Rovers so that'll get on my t1ts right away, or St Helen's Rugby league.

I'll probably not bother in the end, but for me to even be considering such steps shows how disillusioned i am with the whole @#/? situation and if Lambert walks thats it for me until those rats leave anyway.

Keeps me awake at night this, that can't be good....

[Pedro]

I think you sum things up very well Pedro, times have changed, society has changed and for the better in most cases.

I will just say one thing, why can Blackpool fans protest against that prat Oyston and get a game abandoned, yet our fans can't even turn up to walk down Bolton Road to protest against the manager? or owners? or directors robbing a living? or agents robbing the club?

Some of the excuses on here were embarrassing, the whole sorry affair is embarrassing and the fans did nothing, still do nothing.

Just on the renew or not renew:

I'm so frustrated with the situation that I'm considering buying a season ticket at Rangers next season. I'm not a massive Rangers fan, in fact I'm not a Rangers fan at all, but if i had to choose between Celtic and Rangers it would be Rangers every time.

One of the biggest pulls is the Old Firm games, I've only ever been to 1 back in 80's and it was a fantastic experience that I'd like to do again. I'd not get to many games, but its an option and not impacting on Rovers other than my absence from games. I've also considered egg chasing at Worcester Warriors but it'll be full of posh folk that drive Range Rovers so that'll get on my t1ts right away, or St Helen's Rugby league.

I'll probably not bother in the end, but for me to even be considering such steps shows how disillusioned i am with the whole @#/? situation and if Lambert walks thats it for me until those rats leave anyway.

Keeps me awake at night this, that can't be good....

I personally never protested other than chanting Kean Out and firing choice words in his direction. I never marched mainly due to not being able to make head nor tail of the sorry situation and for not buying into the wink, wink, nudge, nudge kind of non-information that I felt we were teased with. I personally think that divided many fans and from memory, the timing for the first protest was badly off - in hindsight mainly, as we had media attention but beat a tip club (Arsenal??). I felt it was a with us, or against us mentality (in terms of protesters) and that has never been entirety healed. Five or six years later we are now playing in a passionless and empty Ewood and often I can't bring myself to celebrate our goals, nevermind kick off. I still don't know what good it would do because I've never felt there was a viable option in terms of buying them out and sustaining the club, regardless, we are left with a shell of a once great club. I dread to think what ST sales will be next season as I am aware of quite a few who are packing in.

[Athlete]

Season tickets is there anyone left at the club to announce anything

As for renew there's nothing to renew to at present

[oldjamfan1]

Just on the renew or not renew:

I'm so frustrated with the situation that I'm considering buying a season ticket at Rangers next season. I'm not a massive Rangers fan, in fact I'm not a Rangers fan at all, but if i had to choose between Celtic and Rangers it would be Rangers every time.

I might be wrong about this Gav but I suspect there'll be some sort of waiting list for an Ibrox season ticket for next season? I'm not sure you'd simply be able to buy one without having some sort of prior purchase history/connection to the club. They even pulled in 50,000 v Alloa the other day!

[JHRover]

I think you sum things up very well Pedro, times have changed, society has changed and for the better in most cases.

I will just say one thing, why can Blackpool fans protest against that prat Oyston and get a game abandoned, yet our fans can't even turn up to walk down Bolton Road to protest against the manager? or owners? or directors robbing a living? or agents robbing the club?

Some of the excuses on here were embarrassing, the whole sorry affair is embarrassing and the fans did nothing, still do nothing.

Just on the renew or not renew:

I'm so frustrated with the situation that I'm considering buying a season ticket at Rangers next season. I'm not a massive Rangers fan, in fact I'm not a Rangers fan at all, but if i had to choose between Celtic and Rangers it would be Rangers every time.

One of the biggest pulls is the Old Firm games, I've only ever been to 1 back in 80's and it was a fantastic experience that I'd like to do again. I'd not get to many games, but its an option and not impacting on Rovers other than my absence from games. I've also considered egg chasing at Worcester Warriors but it'll be full of posh folk that drive Range Rovers so that'll get on my t1ts right away, or St Helen's Rugby league.

I'll probably not bother in the end, but for me to even be considering such steps shows how disillusioned i am with the whole @#/? situation and if Lambert walks thats it for me until those rats leave anyway.

Keeps me awake at night this, that can't be good....

I think there is a major difference between ourselves and Blackpool and that is why the difference in fan reactions.

Firstly our troubles under Venkys began in 2010 when they disposed of Sam Allardyce and replaced him with Steve Kean. Blackpool's suffering has been much more recent. Infact as recently as 2012 Blackpool were playing in the play-off final against West Ham. They have known good times under the Oystons with numerous promotions. Its only in the last 18-24 months that things have really unravelled there with them heading towards back to back relegations. Their fury and anger is much fresher and they have more energy for it. Believe me if nothing changes at Blackpool, like nothing changed here, then in 2-3 years time Blackpool fans will have the same weary resignation that we appear to have.

Secondly we have attempted the whole protest approach. It didn't work. All it achieved was negative publicity for the club as the media mafia sided with Kean and his cronies and blamed the fans for our demise. There's no reason whatsoever to think it would work this time.

Another reason some people are reluctant to do it is the realisation that we need Venkys, and it is actually a risky game to play to start protesting against them or trying to force them out. It would be very easy for them to turn around and stop funding the club completely. Our very existence at this moment in time depends on their input. I don't like that, but its where we are. If they turn off the money tap like Davies did at Bolton last year and chances are we'd be going down to the High Court facing winding up petitions. As bad as things are at the moment that is something I want to avoid at all costs. Neither Blackpool nor Charlton are losing £15 million a year or are £100 million in debt, so the consequences of their owners suddenly clearing off with no back up plan are much less severe.

Actually one of Blackpool and Charlton fans' biggest sources of anger is the way in which their owners have attempted to take money out of their clubs and use them as money makers. There's no way Venkys can have done that here in the last few years.

Another reason is that Blackpool and Charlton fans have a target for their anger and frustration. We used to have that with Steve Kean who was the public face of the rotten regime and was therefore the target of our fury. Nowadays there is nobody at Ewood who can be the focus of anger. Karl Oyston sits in the stand at Bloomfield Road with a smirk on his face and his business interests are based in the town. There are many, many ways of targeting him to try and force him to change his ways. With our mob there are no such options. The only suggestion I've heard is some form of advert in an Indian newspaper. We can't harm their business and even if we did it would probably be of greater detriment to BRFC.

[den]

I think you sum things up very well Pedro, times have changed, society has changed and for the better in most cases.

I will just say one thing, why can Blackpool fans protest against that prat Oyston and get a game abandoned, yet our fans can't even turn up to walk down Bolton Road to protest against the manager? or owners? or directors robbing a living? or agents robbing the club?

Some of the excuses on here were embarrassing, the whole sorry affair is embarrassing and the fans did nothing, still do nothing.

Just on the renew or not renew:

I'm so frustrated with the situation that I'm considering buying a season ticket at Rangers next season. I'm not a massive Rangers fan, in fact I'm not a Rangers fan at all, but if i had to choose between Celtic and Rangers it would be Rangers every time.

One of the biggest pulls is the Old Firm games, I've only ever been to 1 back in 80's and it was a fantastic experience that I'd like to do again. I'd not get to many games, but its an option and not impacting on Rovers other than my absence from games. I've also considered egg chasing at Worcester Warriors but it'll be full of posh folk that drive Range Rovers so that'll get on my t1ts right away, or St Helen's Rugby league.

I'll probably not bother in the end, but for me to even be considering such steps shows how disillusioned i am with the whole @#/? situation and if Lambert walks thats it for me until those rats leave anyway.

Keeps me awake at night this, that can't be good....

Why do Blackpool fans protest against Oyston, yet rovers fans do nothing about Venkys Gav?

It's a good question and the only answers I can see are these.......

Firstly, every demo at different clubs are done - or not done - under different circumstances. If you really want to delve deep into this, then you also have to look at all the clubs where the fans could have reason to demonstrate, but don't. I'm sure Rovers fans aren't on their own.

Secondly, Blackpool are in a position where Oyston could leave, be replaced by another local businessman and the club could continue virtually as it is now. For Rovers, that isn't the situation. If Venkys decided to leave, none of us know what situation the club would be in.

So there is a big difference between Blackpools situation and ours - not forgetting of course that there have been demonstrations at Ewood and it changed nothing. I'm not about to start organising protests, nor is anyone else on here. The facts. Are that the fans have two options really. Either start protesting/chanting spontaneously on match days as CLB says we used to do, or make the ultimate protest and walk away from the club. The majority will take the second option.

[ABBEY]

We need venkys ? Why ? So the debts pile up ? So we drop to oblivion ? How much will it take for the like of JH to have enough of the idiots and rebuild.

You know what will happen they will at some point go and what is left will be blamed on fans wanting them out and not the dodge pots in Pune

[Mattyblue]

I don't like to use the word 'spoilt', as I never was, I appreciated how well the club was run and how we were only a bad decision away from it all unravelling.

However, a lot of Rovers fans do seem to struggle with our new reality- that we are appallingly run and are on the verge of disaster. In the Good Old Days they were happy to turn up knowing that the board and management wanted the best for the club and every thing they did was for the cause of getting the best possible team on the pitch.

Those years have without doubt taken the 'edge' off a lot of the fanbase.

[CAPT KAYOS]

We need venkys ? Why ? So the debts pile up ? So we drop to oblivion ? How much will it take for the like of JH to have enough of the idiots and rebuild.

You know what will happen they will at some point go and what is left will be blamed on fans wanting them out and not the dodge pots in Pune

Agree Abbey

As I have posted on the 'OPEN LETTER' thread - for me too many people seem to think we are going to get back to our heady P/L days overnight which ain't going to happen with the loons funds or no funds

It needs the disease stopping - giving us a chance to rebuild from whatever level

[den]

I don't like to use the word 'spoilt', as I never was, I appreciated how well the club was run and how we were only a bad decision away from it all unravelling.

However, a lot of Rovers fans do seem to struggle with our new reality- that we are appallingly run and are on the verge of disaster. In the Good Old Days they were happy to turn up knowing that the board and management wanted the best for the club and every thing they did was for the cause of getting the best possible team on the pitch.

Those years have without doubt taken the 'edge' off a lot of the fanbase.

Do you really think a lot of fans don't see how badly we are run, Matty?

[Mattyblue]

Of course they do, but they just seem to just shrug and 'say well what can you do?'. Years of being part of a fantastic run club seems to have gelded them.

[ABBEY]

Do you really think a lot of fans don't see how badly we are run, Matty?

There are a lot of ostriches den

[tomphil]

Of course they do, but they just seem to just shrug and 'say well what can you do?'. Years of being part of a fantastic run club seems to have gelded them.

That's exactly what a lot do. There's the air of resignation and grim acceptance, you can feel it in Ewood over the past few seasons. The anger was there but stability abaited that, now we are going backwards again people just don't seem to want the aggro of it anymore.

'We've had our good times, these lot have ruined it, I'm not going again till they do something proper or feck off' and they stay at home, plenty footy on the box after all.

[den]

Of course they do, but they just seem to just shrug and 'say well what can you do?'. Years of being part of a fantastic run club seems to have gelded them.

Well I'm not sure what you can do.

There's a lot of huffing and puffing on here - don't mean you Matty, but that's all it is. Yes it's crap, yes it's mind blowing how the owners are running the club, everyone agrees on that, but just coming on here and wanting the owners out without knowing where that will leave us, or even if there will be a Blackburn Rovers FC, doesn't appeal to me.

[ABBEY]

And if they stay ... The end is nigh , with or without the chicken chokers .

[den]

And if they stay ... The end is nigh , with or without the chicken chokers .

So what do you want from this thread Abbey? What do you want the fans to do?

[ABBEY]

Not up to me to say if fans renew or not .