[Archived] Protest Ideas...

[JBiz]

Wind back 12 months or so and you were posting ad nauseum about "let's not sack Bowyer cos nobody else will come"., "the next manager will be much worse" etc.

Now it's "the next owners could be much worse".

You obviously have a fear of change for some reason.

And your friend K-Hod did call you out as a WUM when you first started posting, said you were well known for it.

Who are you?

Do you want me to defend myself? I don't care. I've been through this before and cant be arsed doing it again.

You got a problem with people having an opinion?

Even when the poster's a well-known provocateur?

From you, that's rich.

[Gav]

Who are you?

Do you want me to defend myself? I don't care. I've been through this before and cant be arsed doing it again.

You got a problem with people having an opinion?

.

Calm down calm down...

Get protesting, we need that passion.

[tomphil]

With all due respect to the protestors, its not like the Venkys do not know that they are unpopular. I do not forsee an AD in the newspapers on sunday saying "BRFC for SALE. Will Sell to any bidder". You only have to analyze the difference between the Kean Out protests and the Venkys out protests to see why one worked and why the other wont. Get everyone on board and the protests will work, easier said then done though. I admit.

Let us assume the protests do work and Venky's put the club up for sale. The devil lies in the details.

1. Let us assume there are lots of potential buyers who can be lined up. Fair enough. Considering the way the chinese are buying all the west midlands clubs, this should not be a major problem at all.

2. Now comes the main point. Hummmmmmmm let see. Last time I checked, in a commercial transaction a buyer and a seller have to agree on a "price" as well as "terms". Now we have no clue as to how much the Venkys want. We need to know this first. Also, all fans are smart enough to understand that the "NOT FOR SALE" sign is used as a bargaining chip to get the price up. Surely nobody is naive enough to think that the Venkys are NOT selling for their immense LOVE of this club.

3. Although I have no clue about the actual details of the Seneca bid [if there was any] but according to the rumors it was in the range of 60 million for taking an executive role at the club. I am assuming that the debt was considered at 120 million and they were offering half the debt to run the club while Venkys had to sit back and enjoy the ride. [basically Venkys have a non executive role aka they do not call the shots in the way the club is run].

4. Now it is very naive to assume that the price and the terms are mutually independent of each other. The price could go higher or lower depending on the terms that are negotiated. For the buyer to have an upper hand, he has to spot a weakness in the seller. This will help him get the price down. Venkys simply wont put up a "club for sale" sign as it does not get them the bargaining power or leverage over a potential buyer.

5. it does not matter what the fans think of what is the value of the club unless they are a minority or a majority shareholder of the club. Heck Swansea fans had no say in the appointment of their recent manager even though they are shareholders of their club. It is well documented.

Having said that, a better way to get rid of the Venkys [if that is what everyone wants. I am not convinced yet and we will surely know by saturday] is.

1. Actively look for buyers. Do we have a list of potential candidates who are interested? Why cant we fans act as an agent in order to facilitate a deal for the betterment of the club? Heck we might even get a seat on the board or a minority share in the club.

2. You can protest all your life, but unless you find anything illegal, the owners cannot be kicked out for free. So put all the resources available on Glen or any of the support groups and pray that they can find something.

All well and good saying all that but they aren't to stupid to realise that this asset is fast depreciating and will be worth nothing before long. Smart business people, financial advisors etc will always advise cut your losses, take the best offer you can even if it means writing off a lot of money then move on to something else.

They aren't hanging on trying to drive the price up at all and I'm sure if they went out there themselves and did some research they'd find someone who'd take it off their hands at a rip off price if that's what they want.

There's more to it than that and by the way Saturdays protests won't show if the majority want them gone at all the gaps in the stands are cast iron proof of that everyweek. 12k turning up five minutes ago now 6 or 7k actually in the ground. What next season ?

Yeah they're really going to get 100 million for this now. Just do one and set yourselves and us free !

[47er]

Well said Tomphil. Apparently it's our job to find new owners now!

"the Seneca bid IF THERE WAS ONE"

Some Rovers fan that. The John Claret of BRFCS more like.

[tomphil]

Well said Tomphil. Apparently it's our job to find new owners now!

All they have to do is phone Senaca and I'm sure even now something could be sorted. Just nonsense excuse making trying to deflect from protests. They ain't getting their money back in any great amounts by hanging on to the club and running up further debts and if they were hanging on for 100 million plus it just shows them to be even more stupid and greedy.

They are toxic for us and we are becoming toxic to them so there's an easy solution. Put it up for sale at a sensible price, if you want to drive the price up you start low and see where it goes you don't sit back and say offer us 100 million plus for something worth a fifth of that and hope to get more.

[JHRover]

Indeed. We're at the stage now where Venkys have to decide what they want. They can forget 'getting their money back'. £20 million for the club if debt free is one thing that is perhaps achievable, but only if the rest of the debt is wiped clear.

They can either hang on and lose millions more every year, or stop losing money by letting the club go. If that means giving it away then at least they've one less thing to worry about and £10 million a year they don't have to generate from somewhere to pay for it. There is no logical reason whatsoever for them to want to keep hold of the club. They've got what value they can out of it by flogging everyone of value. There's perhaps another £2 million of playing assets left on our books but then that's it. Nothing left.

This notion that a club of Rovers size, infrastructure and pedigree couldn't attract any sort of buyer is nothing more than a myth which seems to have been caused by the Walker Trust's failed searches for a buyer 6 years ago. To attach any sort of weight to the Walker Trust's failure we would need to know precisely on what terms they were attempting to sell the club. What we do know is that every season numerous Football League clubs are taken over by an assortment of businessmen for a range of prices and the vast majority make substantial annual losses. These range from Accy Stanley with Andy Holt to Wolves with the Chinese owners. They all want to get involved for a variety of reasons and all know when getting involved that their clubs are likely to lose money every season and that gap will need plugging from somewhere. It doesn't deter them and it wouldn't deter people looking at Rovers. What would deter people looking at Rovers is a ridiculously high debt level heaped on by dodgy owners who are daft enough to think that money is going back to them. It isn't. Perhaps when we're in League One and at least 2 promotion seasons away from the Premier League then that might start to sink in. Alternatively they might not even notice when we go down to League One so long as Cheston keeps annual losses down to the £5 million mark.

[tomphil]

It was only when the Trust lowered the asking price by 20 million that there was a sudden influx of interest. Also with the dodgy people in the background apparently eyeing it up for a good while before they became publically involved how do we know more suitable parties weren't being put off by the dark forces in the years it was for sale ?

The takeover and everything since stinks so the period between it going up for sale and it changing hands probably has a few skeletons as well. Also we are led to believe there was a lot of stipulations in Jacks will regarding the club so they were probably navigating a way through those for years before hand in order for it to become available to anyone who stumped the cash up.

Jack left it that way because he didn't want it sold unless it made sense i.e some big and worthy investors. He left provisions for it to continue to be run by the Trust he set up, maybe not to invest but certainly to keep it going. Shame on them all !

[Jock]

Any good songs for tomorrow?

Isn't there something about high up staff at Rovers shagging each other 😂

I tawt I taw a puddy cat

[tomphil]

Any good songs for tomorrow?

Isn't there something about high up staff at Rovers shagging each other

I've heard this mentioned a few times, any more info ?

[Jock]

I've heard this mentioned a few times, any more info ?

and something about some twins 😳

[JAL]

What sort of songs will you be singing other than Venkys out.

[broadsword]

Calm down calm down...

Get protesting, we need that passion.

Well said. Divide and conquer, we have no hope if we're too busy fighting ourselves to help get rid of Venky's.

The club tried to get the mural stopped, let's stick it right up 'em and hit them where it hurts.

No surrender.

RAM IT VENKY'S.

[punerover]

All they have to do is phone Senaca and I'm sure even now something could be sorted. Just nonsense excuse making trying to deflect from protests. They ain't getting their money back in any great amounts by hanging on to the club and running up further debts and if they were hanging on for 100 million plus it just shows them to be even more stupid and greedy.

They are toxic for us and we are becoming toxic to them so there's an easy solution. Put it up for sale at a sensible price, if you want to drive the price up you start low and see where it goes you don't sit back and say offer us 100 million plus for something worth a fifth of that and hope to get more.

1. I wrongly presumed that the Venky's were allegedly making money left, right and center by having deals will dodgy agents by back channels using player sales and transfers [maybe I just imagined those things]. If they got kick backs, how much money do you think they lost? All the 102.4 million which is the official debt figure? mmmmmm In the present situation considering the player sales, how much do you think that debt would have come down to? And how much have they saved in wages this year?. The debt should have been theoretically reduced to 60 million or less considering the recent and last year's sale of players.......Also next year in League 1, with another round of sales and wage cuts that debt will come down to 20 million or less... ofcourse my figures can be completely off since I am no accountant.... Then we go lower to league 2 and whence we will surely make some profits. Point is they are cutting their losses alright... over time and not by selling the club but by selling the players and wages.

2. Maybe I am wrong and Venkys are just poor blokes who are loosing a lot of money courtesy or some "smart" agents. A agent told them buy this, buy that, spend here, spend there, and they have been happily [or unhappily] complying with them all these 6 years. Maybe they are innocent and they are just incompetent after all.

[tomphil]

I don't quite know what your getting at there but regardless of any bleeding out or not there is virtually nowt left to bleed. Debt won't be coming down if the cash is used to fund the club although it may temporarily stop it escalating. At the very least the external debt should have reduced somewhat, if it hasn't they are on the bleed or take back.

Accounts out soon so there'll be a better picture although I bet there is some serious book cooking going on with this set more than every one before. If the picture has hardly changed from the last lot them something very wrong is clearly going on with the flow of money through BRFC.

[Jock]

What sort of songs will you be singing other than Venkys out.

Singing about Martin Buchan. He's still Ba5tards manager isn't he?

[punerover]

I don't quite know what your getting at there but regardless of any bleeding out or not there is virtually nowt left to bleed. Debt won't be coming down if the cash is used to fund the club although it may temporarily stop it escalating. At the very least the external debt should have reduced somewhat, if it hasn't they are on the bleed or take back.

Accounts out soon so there'll be a better picture although I bet there is some serious book cooking going on with this set more than every one before. If the picture has hardly changed from the last lot them something very wrong is clearly going on with the flow of money through BRFC.

Let me simplify. Do you think

a) They are loosing money head over fist which is increasing the debt? Being ill advised by agents.

They are making money through back channels, [either by player sales or betting] while increasing the debt on paper while earning millions for themselves.

Pick One.

[JAL]

Singing about Martin Buchan. He's still Ba5tards manager isn't he?

You've lost me Jock what's that got to do with the protests.

Anything about The FA.? Who knew but did nothing.

Anything tomorrow regarding the manager or the players agents.

Third party ownership.

Sky sports itself ?

[tomphil]

Let me simplify. Do you think

a) They are loosing money head over fist which is increasing the debt? Being ill advised by agents.

They are making money through back channels, [either by player sales or betting] while increasing the debt on paper while earning millions for themselves.

Pick One.

B of course, or at least a version of it all day and everyday although I remain open to the possibility it's the partners who are behind this !

Either way the game is up

[Jock]

Let me simplify. Do you think

a) They are loosing money head over fist which is increasing the debt? Being ill advised by agents.

They are making money through back channels, [either by player sales or betting] while increasing the debt on paper while earning millions for themselves.

Pick One.

I'll answer for him.

@#/? off Pune Rover

[Claytons Left Boot]

The debt should have been theoretically reduced to 60 million or less considering the recent and last year's sale of players.......Also next year in League 1, with another round of sales and wage cuts that debt will come down to 20 million or less... ofcourse my figures can be completely off since I am no accountant.... Then we go lower to league 2 and whence we will surely make some profits.

The debt will not come down to £60m. Even if it did, relegation to League 1 would not reduce it by a further £40m or more! You're living in cloud cuckoo land. The words 'football clubs' and 'profits' do not go hand in hand. It has taken Manchester City all these years to just about turn out a profit, even with their massive income streams and backing from their owners. They will be just one of a tiny number of clubs posting profits in the entire football pyramid in England. Virtually every other club in the Premier League, Championship, League 1 and League 2 will be either losing money or, at best, breaking even.

You're right about one thing. We will be playing in League 1 fairly soon. With about 5-7k rattling around in a 31k capacity stadium we will be posting further losses as the cost of maintaining both Ewood Park and Brockhall takes hold. The overall debt should come down slightly but by the time we are playing in League 1, it will still be north of £100m. I don't even want to consider League 2.

[bob fleming]

1. I wrongly presumed that the Venky's were allegedly making money left, right and center by having deals will dodgy agents by back channels using player sales and transfers [maybe I just imagined those things]. If they got kick backs, how much money do you think they lost? All the 102.4 million which is the official debt figure? mmmmmm In the present situation considering the player sales, how much do you think that debt would have come down to? And how much have they saved in wages this year?. The debt should have been theoretically reduced to 60 million or less considering the recent and last year's sale of players.......Also next year in League 1, with another round of sales and wage cuts that debt will come down to 20 million or less... ofcourse my figures can be completely off since I am no accountant.... Then we go lower to league 2 and whence we will surely make some profits. Point is they are cutting their losses alright... over time and not by selling the club but by selling the players and wages.

2. Maybe I am wrong and Venkys are just poor blokes who are loosing a lot of money courtesy or some "smart" agents. A agent told them buy this, buy that, spend here, spend there, and they have been happily [or unhappily] complying with them all these 6 years. Maybe they are innocent and they are just incompetent after all.

"Just a bit more time. Pleeeeasssee. We promise we'll get it right this time pleeeasssseee, please."

What a load of guff. Yes, theoretically the debt will have been reduced through player sales. Do you honestly believe that will be the case? As you correctly point out, it's been 6 years. 6 long years of unfathomable decision making. 99% of decisions have been completely wrong. There is no structure. There is no management. They don't attend matches. They haven't invested money in players for nigh on 2 years. They've taken out £40m in sales in that time I read on here.

As for "also next year in League 1, with another round of sales and wage cuts that debt will come down to 20 million or less....." Sorry mate. You haven't a clue. Read this slowly. Are you ready...?

There are no players left to sell of any value! We're going to save £40m by relegation to league one. Please, stop it, my sides!! Comedy Gold! Not an accountant - not a clue more like. Tell me your just being silly? Please.

The players by and large are not good enough, they've all been brought into the club by managers who aren't good enough, paper work completed by complete no bodies who aren't up to the job, and the ultimate decisions have been taken by Venkys. Who, yep, you've guessed it, aren't good enough either.

Great, they get the debt down to £60m. Then what? Again read this slowly... There is only one conceivable way that they'll ever get their money back...

Promotion to the Premier League. That'll take money, it'll take a new manager, and that means we'll need Venky's to appoint one... and that process invariably goes like this...

"Um er, um, er, I'm confused again, it hurts my head, er, I'll ring a football agent, they'll help me with my money, just like last time, they'll promise and everything. I like football agents and they like me."

Not fit for purpose. They should have taken the offer that was apparently on the table in the summer. Idiots.

[MCMC1875]

[Stuart]

I like the part about how we will make profits in League 2.

And everyone happily ever after...

Punerover is either a dingle, a plant, a WUM or a child.

[windymiller7]

I like the part about how we will make profits in League 2.

And everyone happily ever after...

Punerover is either a dingle, a plant, a WUM or a child.

Personally I reckon all 4!

[punerover]

I am confused even more now. Are the Venky's making money? I am not asking of the club is making any money or not, i am asking if the Venkys are making any money or not out of BRFC. 1. If they [Venkys and NOT BRFC]are making money [Through back channels], why should they sell BRFC?

2. if they [Venkys and BRFC]are loosing money as you intelligent folks claim, then they can only be accused of incompetence and not corruption. In which case, it makes it difficult to protest. Unless you are saying, we are protesting incompetence. Is it?