[Archived] Why Do Venky's Continue To Own Us?

[Stuart]

Mr Bank of India...

"..... and finally, agenda item 83. That silly football club again. Why Balaji bought it I'll never know, ha ha ha. Sorry to have to bring it up. Shall we Madame or if you'd rather leave it to next time?

Of course, not a problem, see you all in three months. But I do think at some stage in the next 20 years we might have to write that one off as a little mistake."

Gadzooks! What a thought.

It does make you wonder what their vision is of how this ends.

On the one hand: if they want their money back

£100m debt that they will only get back through promotion to the Premier League. It certainly won't be paid back with ticket/merchandise sales or even player sales. So they will have to continue with Plan (what are we up to now) M(oyes) after not being happy with Plan L(ambert) - and the epic failures since Plan K(ean) - having quickly dismissed Plan A(llardyce) and Plan (B)owner at respective junctures. So there's a certain symmetry there - keep your powder dry Gary Neville (they are coming for you).

On the other hand: if they don't get their money back

If they have no ambition to get promoted (exhibit A being Lambert's departure over it) then they have to write this off and at the same time stem the flow of further debt. This should reduce the losses but won't reduce the debt. We will lose more fans and make FFP-compliant player signings even more difficult. So at what point do they wrap this around Rovers' neck (as a Limited company I assume they can) and shut up shop? Or do they just cut our costs to the bone and accept a couple of relegations? But even if we end up in a position where we can wash our own face with 4000 diehards paying League Two player wages, they never get their money back. So why not just go now? Are they deliberately punishing the fans? They probably don't care enough. More likely we are now just the Balaji problem that the family don't like to talk about and for the most part ignore until something crops up.

[Baz]

Gadzooks! What a thought.

It does make you wonder what their vision is of how this ends.

On the one hand: if they want their money back

£100m debt that they will only get back through promotion to the Premier League. It certainly won't be paid back with ticket/merchandise sales or even player sales. So they will have to continue with Plan (what are we up to now) M(oyes) after not being happy with Plan L(ambert) - and the epic failures since Plan K(ean) - having quickly dismissed Plan A(llardyce) and Plan (B)owner at respective junctures. So there's a certain symmetry there - keep your powder dry Gary Neville (they are coming for you).

On the other hand: if they don't get their money back

If they have no ambition to get promoted (exhibit A being Lambert's departure over it) then they have to write this off and at the same time stem the flow of further debt. This should reduce the losses but won't reduce the debt. We will lose more fans and make FFP-compliant player signings even more difficult. So at what point do they wrap this around Rovers' neck (as a Limited company I assume they can) and shut up shop? Or do they just cut our costs to the bone and accept a couple of relegations? But even if we end up in a position where we can wash our own face with 4000 diehards paying League Two player wages, they never get their money back. So why not just go now? Are they deliberately punishing the fans? They probably don't care enough. More likely we are now just the Balaji problem that the family don't like to talk about and for the most part ignore until something crops up.

Promotion to the premier league would not clear the debts, you would need to be able to stay there for 2 or 3 seasons minimum, paying back 30-50m per season to clear the debt. It would however make the debt more viable for another buyer to potentially take on ( although I doubt that they would take on 100m). In my opinion they may find someone willing to take on the 20m we where in debt when they took over, if they sold for the £1 and where in the PL, however getting back to the PL is increasingly unlikely.

Unfortunately, I think, we need to be ready for the club to be put into administration in the next few seasons.

[Stuart]

Brilliant, if sobering, piece in today's Football League paper by Chris Dunlavy. If this isn't allowed then please delete and I'll share to anyone interested by PM. I couldn't find an online version to link.

[RoverCanada]

It's estimated that parachute payments will now amount to almost £75M over three years, so even one year of PL could put a significant dent in the debt, at the very least bringing it down to a manageable level.

[47er]

Brilliant, if sobering, piece in today's Football League paper by Chris Dunlavy. If this isn't allowed then please delete and I'll share to anyone interested by PM. I couldn't find an online version to link.

At last someone outside Blackburn gets it right!

[yoda]

Bugger you Yoda. I outbid and offer £3-50p for Rovers.

Top that if you can!

How about a joint bid £5.50 that should make their eyes water

[J*B]

How about a joint bid of 5 pounds 50 pence that should make their eyes water

You are over paying.

[DE.]

Brilliant, if sobering, piece in today's Football League paper by Chris Dunlavy. If this isn't allowed then please delete and I'll share to anyone interested by PM. I couldn't find an online version to link.

Nice to see our plight properly publicised, but what sad reading that makes. Yet certain people will still try to make Lambert out to be the bad guy

[booth]

Nice to see our plight properly publicised, but what sad reading that makes. Yet certain people will still try to make Lambert out to be the bad guy

He still may be. Him using the situation to his advantage doesn't excuse Venkys actions.

They might be unwilling to give him any money because they haven't a clue, he could be using the lack of knowledge about a summer budget to get out because a better job is round the corner. He also won't want his reputation tarnished further because to the outside world he hasn't really hit the ground running as he probably thought, but he wouldn't want to publicly admit that. As yet there's been nothing published to say how much the club has got to spend and until that happens we won't know. If he did ask for "£20m or I'm leaving" he will have known that was an unrealistic amount, or at least an amount that would get knocked back by Venkys in their and the clubs current financial state.

The thing that makes me a tad suspicious of Lambert is that as I posted on another thread, in all his interviews regarding his resignation it's like he's talking about an unspectacular holiday he once had. His frustration doesn't show at all, it's like he's talking about a new signing. His praise of the owners is a bit strange too as he didn't need to say those things. I can't help feeling it was a mutual decision dressed up as something else because both parties want out. Again, in this scenario Venky's would still be villains. But, and this is a stretch I know, they may not believe in his ability to take the club further with money and would rather cut their ties to bring someone else in. It's well known they know sweet fa about football, continuity, giving a manager time in the job before judging them, so would that really be a surprise to anyone?

Don't get me wrong I'm fully expecting Venkys to be the villains in all this but I remain open minded.

[DE.]

It doesn't look good for any manager to come into a club and then leave after six months. He has to have a good reason and I think it's pretty obvious he has one.

[Hasta]

In all of this , Lambert is being careful to preserve his employability as a manager following his criticism of Villa. Continually slagging off clubs he worked for won't do him any favours for the future.

However it's blatantly obvious what the problems have been and he is the first senior person to confirm what we already know in public. I don't care if he turns up at Celtic tomorrow, he's done his best whilst at the club and has revealed the owners as the clueless incompetents we already knew they were to a wider audiance IF they bother or want to pick up on it.

The guy in the article above obviously does. I doubt many mainstream media will give a toss though.

[yoda]

You are over paying.

Yeah I know but it's in your blood

[booth]

In all of this , Lambert is being careful to preserve his employability as a manager following his criticism of Villa. Continually slagging off clubs he worked for won't do him any favours for the future.

However it's blatantly obvious what the problems have been and he is the first senior person to confirm what we already know in public. I don't care if he turns up at Celtic tomorrow, he's done his best whilst at the club and has revealed the owners as the clueless incompetents we already knew they were to a wider audiance IF they bother or want to pick up on it.

The guy in the article above obviously does. I doubt many mainstream media will give a toss though.

But why say anything about the owners in that case. It's odd that he'd do that if he's hacked off with them.

[Hasta]

So that he doesn't appear to be criticising the owners directly. Read the "off camera" quote in the article.

He's basically saying "thanks for the opportunity, however you're ambition isn't hone same as mine. In fact I don't know what your ambition is because you don't speak to me."

[booth]

I see that but he needn't have mentioned them at all if he didn't want to look like he was offending anyone. Seemed a bit too nicey nice for me considering the circumstances.

[West Yorks Rover]

In all of this , Lambert is being careful to preserve his employability as a manager following his criticism of Villa. Continually slagging off clubs he worked for won't do him any favours for the future.

However it's blatantly obvious what the problems have been and he is the first senior person to confirm what we already know in public. I don't care if he turns up at Celtic tomorrow, he's done his best whilst at the club and has revealed the owners as the clueless incompetents we already knew they were to a wider audiance IF they bother or want to pick up on it.

The guy in the article above obviously does. I doubt many mainstream media will give a toss though.

They did get some stick on Ch; 5 Highlights show last night, Chris Iwelumo talked very well about the absent owners' and non existent board.

[K-Hod]

They did get some stick on Ch; 5 Highlights show last night, Chris Iwelumo talked very well about the absent owners' and non existent board.

I thought that as well. He talked a lot of sense for an ex-dingle!

[Blue blood]

If they wrote off the debt and passed the club to someone who really cares that surely that isn't losing face. They could actually get some positive PR from it outside of Blackburn.

To them and that culture it would be classed as a failure. A massive one.

The 2 problems we are facing are 1 it's a totally different culture and way of thinking and 2 they're utterly incompetent. It's a very dangerous mix.

[BlueMonday]

To them and that culture it would be classed as a failure. A massive one.

The 2 problems we are facing are 1 it's a totally different culture and way of thinking and 2 they're utterly incompetent. It's a very dangerous mix.

They are a failure if they stick, twist or fold. They are just delaying the inevitable.

[Amo]

Don't buy all this talk about them wanting to 'save face'. No one cares about football in India, let alone second division football.

[Riverside67]

I can only put it down to a loss of face.

They keep clinging on in denial about the real outcome of their own stupidity. The club has been in decline for 6 years and now with the loss of the parachute payments faces financial meltdown.

In their culture it is hugely important not to lose face or reputation. This is the only rational explanation I can think of as to why they do not leave. All relations with the fan base have been fractured long ago.

The cost now of servicing the debt alone must be getting on for several millions a year. As the gate and TV income levels fall there is going to be a tipping point when the debt costs outweigh the income. At that stage they would surely be trading illegally. So far the standard modus operandi has been to go into non communication with anybody. This I can only explain as self denial and hoping that the problem does not really exist and will somehow go away.

They appear now not have the stomach, the intellect or the cash to dig themselves out the pit they are in but continue to make decisions that only worsen their plight. They stand to face a humiliating end to their tenure, I am sure they will do everything they can to keep all the incompetence out of the public eye but this has got a momentum now. The fan base is being obliterated and therefore so is their cash. I doubt the budget plan for next year is set at 8000 but I guess that is where it will be. That can only mean more asset sales and a declining team standard. Their only get out of jail card is promotion back to the premier league but next season relegation is the most likely outcome. The finances are going to be a wreckage now on for them and their answer is to cut their way to prosperity and hope for a miracle.

Well they can reflect for eternity on their initial ignorance of the fans who saw this outcome when they got rid of some of the best in football and replaced them with the worst. That is all playing out in agony before their eyes. So much for the spearhead of the brand into Europe. The brand they have created has hugely negative connotations and is broadcast on Sky every week for all the world to see. Even their own manager has sacked them and you can understand why. It is one constant stream of bad press on a daily basis now.

The only trouble is the death by a thousand cuts is felt by every real Rovers fan and I suspect few in Pune even understand the emotion of seeing the heritage of your grandfather, father's and sons football team being systematically dismantled in this way.

The ultimate outcome of their tenure has resulted in the humiliation of the decent folk of Blackburn and all Rovers fans worldwide.

[yoda]

Why Do Venky's Continue To Own Us?

because THEY CAN'T SELL US

[Norbert Rassragr]

If we did implode I hope it takes all their businesses with it.

[Stuart]

I can only put it down to a loss of face.

They keep clinging on in denial about the real outcome of their own stupidity. The club has been in decline for 6 years and now with the loss of the parachute payments faces financial meltdown.

In their culture it is hugely important not to lose face or reputation. This is the only rational explanation I can think of as to why they do not leave. All relations with the fan base have been fractured long ago.

The cost now of servicing the debt alone must be getting on for several millions a year. As the gate and TV income levels fall there is going to be a tipping point when the debt costs outweigh the income. At that stage they would surely be trading illegally. So far the standard modus operandi has been to go into non communication with anybody. This I can only explain as self denial and hoping that the problem does not really exist and will somehow go away.

They appear now not have the stomach, the intellect or the cash to dig themselves out the pit they are in but continue to make decisions that only worsen their plight. They stand to face a humiliating end to their tenure, I am sure they will do everything they can to keep all the incompetence out of the public eye but this has got a momentum now. The fan base is being obliterated and therefore so is their cash. I doubt the budget plan for next year is set at 8000 but I guess that is where it will be. That can only mean more asset sales and a declining team standard. Their only get out of jail card is promotion back to the premier league but next season relegation is the most likely outcome. The finances are going to be a wreckage now on for them and their answer is to cut their way to prosperity and hope for a miracle.

Well they can reflect for eternity on their initial ignorance of the fans who saw this outcome when they got rid of some of the best in football and replaced them with the worst. That is all playing out in agony before their eyes. So much for the spearhead of the brand into Europe. The brand they have created has hugely negative connotations and is broadcast on Sky every week for all the world to see. Even their own manager has sacked them and you can understand why. It is one constant stream of bad press on a daily basis now.

The only trouble is the death by a thousand cuts is felt by every real Rovers fan and I suspect few in Pune even understand the emotion of seeing the heritage of your grandfather, father's and sons football team being systematically dismantled in this way.

The ultimate outcome of their tenure has resulted in the humiliation of the decent folk of Blackburn and all Rovers fans worldwide.

Sobering stuff. The costs of servicing the debt are the main enemy now, which is self-consuming. Large debt works (a la Man Utd) if you make enough money to fund the repayments. It ceases to work when you don't.

Even if we sell Marshall, Hanley and Duffy, it will only cover another years's payments (at a guess) there is nothing left to bring in new players. There is then nobody to sell for next year's repayments. This debt will never be paid unless Venkys foot the bill.

We will be throwing the U21 team into the first team at this rate. No pressure lads. If we did then Johnson and Dunn being promoted would surprise. We could do worse than bringing in Holloway and hoping he can squeeze something out of them like he did with Blackpool.

It would be interesting to know what they really think of all this. Are they losing any sleep?

[Spalding Rover]

You would think a good salesman sent round Qatar or some other stupid rich oil country would easily be able to sell Rovers, on its rich history and cracking facilities.