[Archived] Possible Futures

[Proudtobeblue&white]

We're fooked whoever the idiots recruit. I don't see any of the top PL sides awash with their youth team stars. PL just buys players, because the Sky gold allows them to. We will probably get the dark lords son back on an improved contract!

[Stuart]

I've said it before Bob but the only thing that Venkys bring to this picture is money. If they can't or won't spend it then they are absolutely no use to us. If we have to go down to get back up, I'd rather that the philanthropists weren't around.

Our player recruitment policy needs to be up-and-coming PL loanees and experienced old pros on short term deals. This requires money.

If we are going down the make-do-and-mend and youth route then I'd rather Seneca and the Trust were the ones rolling up their sleeves.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Have to say as well its like a breath of fresh air hearing people savage the youth approach on the previous page. The promise of youth is the most over-rated thing in football since Eric Cantona. Get the youngsters in, they'll show some spirit, they won against some other 18 year olds the other day and such and suchabody had a field day against a lad who'll probably end up playing at blummin Darwen FC.

In getting on 25 years our academy has produced maybe 5 premier league standard players and about 10 Championship standard. One every 2 years at the very most who can contribute to our first team. I'm not knocking the academy, at youth level it competes with the top dogs. But I am knocking the significance of youth level, its not significant, there is an astronomical step up to be made and so few make it that its no way to plan a future.

Back in the Kean era and the latter days of Allardyce it was all the rage to "cut the deadwood" and bring youth in. Well you could give me the old stagers like Pedersen, Dunn, Nelsen, Emerton, Diouf, Roberts any day. They'd already come through the great filter into pro football, almost or every one of that semi-final team who played at Chelsea won't.

One every two years and it's costing 3million in wages to run, so perhaps we would be better closing it and buying a six million player every two years. Something we have done 3 or 4 times in the last 140 years

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

So with gates of 8000 tops next season and circa £100m in debt what do you think the policy should be regarding player recruitment?

And Keans approach to cutting the deadwood was to replace with inadequate rubbish whilst paying extortionate agents fees that obviously didn't get cut two or three ways.

Well I realise its personal opinion but in am ideal world for me (assuming severe budget constraints) we should be looking at an unfashionable Championship manager or a thriving League 1 manager. That manager would bring his own backroom staff with him and then recruit bargains from all leagues at all ages. Lambert managed reasonable success in the market in January on a shoestring, certainly with Graham.

The point in my opinion is if you put all your eggs in the historically barren youth basket, you're limiting yourself to a few tens of players. There's more success to be found out there at the tens of clubs (not to mention abroad) in discarded oldies, out of form quite oldies, pull some strings using the managers contacts middlies, overlooked quite youngies or just youngies that you can poach at every club from the Championship down.

Having youth at your own club as a blueprint for success is a lovely idea but thoroughly impractical.

[bob fleming]

We're fooked whoever the idiots recruit. I don't see any of the top PL sides awash with their youth team stars. PL just buys players, because the Sky gold allows them to.

We're not PL and aren't likely to be for some time.

I've deleted the bit about the useless fraud that was the Leyton Orient youth reject that ended up in the PL with us.

I've said it before Bob but the only thing that Venkys bring to this picture is money. If they can't or won't spend it then they are absolutely no use to us. If we have to go down to get back up, I'd rather that the philanthropists weren't around.

Our player recruitment policy needs to be up-and-coming PL loanees and experienced old pros on short term deals. This requires money.

If we are going down the make-do-and-mend and youth route then I'd rather Seneca and the Trust were the ones rolling up their sleeves.

They "service" £100m of debt. If there is a consortium or interest out there willing to take that on I'd be amazed. I did suggest that Venkys could pay off the debt as a gesture of good will. That ain't gonna happen. Whoever takes us over - administration is surely the most likely starting place.

So in the absence of a load of free money pouring into the club I'll meet you half way. Loanees, old pros, those not quite good enough for the top league (lest we forget some of our fans happiest memories were of the likes of Keeley, Faz, Miller, Garns etc etc) with Youth. The occasional Simon Barker / Franny Carr will go a long way.

Don't forget. No free money and no one turning up to watch = no quick fix.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

We're not PL and aren't likely to be for some time.

I've deleted the bit about the useless fraud that was the Leyton Orient youth reject that ended up in the PL with us.

They "service" £100m of debt. If there is a consortium or interest out there willing to take that on I'd be amazed. I did suggest that Venkys could pay off the debt as a gesture of good will. That ain't gonna happen. Whoever takes us over - administration is surely the most likely starting place.

So in the absence of a load of free money pouring into the club I'll meet you half way. Loanees, old pros, those not quite good enough for the top league (lest we forget some of our fans happiest memories were of the likes of Keeley, Faz, Miller, Garns etc etc) with Youth. The occasional Simon Barker / Franny Carr will go a long way.

Don't forget. No free money and no one turning up to watch = no quick fix.

I'm in despair come what may, bleak, delete as applicable.

[Stuart]

We're not PL and aren't likely to be for some time.

I've deleted the bit about the useless fraud that was the Leyton Orient youth reject that ended up in the PL with us.

They "service" £100m of debt. If there is a consortium or interest out there willing to take that on I'd be amazed. I did suggest that Venkys could pay off the debt as a gesture of good will. That ain't gonna happen. Whoever takes us over - administration is surely the most likely starting place.

So in the absence of a load of free money pouring into the club I'll meet you half way. Loanees, old pros, those not quite good enough for the top league (lest we forget some of our fans happiest memories were of the likes of Keeley, Faz, Miller, Garns etc etc) with Youth. The occasional Simon Barker / Franny Carr will go a long way.

Don't forget. No free money and no one turning up to watch = no quick fix.

We aren't going to return to the top league in my lifetime, I don't think Bob. I just home we do in my kids' lifetime. They've completely @#/? us over and now the parachute payments have ceased - coincidentally - so has Venkys backing. (Odd that).

Plymouth, Portsmouth, Leeds are still the same clubs post-administration. If administration is what it takes then we have to accept that it might be the only way to move this club forward again. Servicing a debt - which continues - to grow isn't indefinite. The philanthropists will eventually pack us up on their own terms. I'd rather it was on the club's terms.

[bob fleming]

We aren't going to return to the top league in my lifetime, I don't think Bob. I just home we do in my kids' lifetime. They've completely @#/? us over and now the parachute payments have ceased - coincidentally - so has Venkys backing. (Odd that).

Plymouth, Portsmouth, Leeds are still the same clubs post-administration. If administration is what it takes then we have to accept that it might be the only way to move this club forward again. Servicing a debt - which continues - to grow isn't indefinite. The philanthropists will eventually pack us up on their own terms. I'd rather it was on the club's terms.

I thought we'd never get to the PL after Palace. Thought it would never happen. 6 years later...

I'd take administration. Seems a fine line between that and liquidation with this amount of debt though.

What scares the hell out of me is how many fans we'll have when it happens - how many will come back? Thousands were supposed to return when Kean left after all. All found better things to do.

[roverandout]

It's been hard to pin you down on this thread for your ideas for the future .... your contribution seems limited to personal digs. But I'm going to assume that you fall in the camp of 'get rid at any cost' .... that makes you a 3. because that is the apocalyptic scenario ... it also makes you an enemy of the club.

Nob!!!

[bob fleming]

Nob!!!

Thanks for your contribution to the debate.

[roverandout]

Y w

[Stuart]

I thought we'd never get to the PL after Palace. Thought it would never happen. 6 years later...

I'd take administration. Seems a fine line between that and liquidation with this amount of debt though.

What scares the hell out of me is how many fans we'll have when it happens - how many will come back? Thousands were supposed to return when Kean left after all. All found better things to do.

Six years and a Jack Walker later...

We have to face up to having 6-7000 ST holders on after Venkys leave is and we are in League One. That would make us a decent League One club.

Every season that goes by with Venkys taking the @#/? out of fans you can knock another 500 off that figure. I think we have about 4000 hardcore fans which would still keep us as a decent L1 side.

It all hinges on what an administrator decides - after speaking with Seneca and the Trust - about that £100m (and still rising) debt.

[bob fleming]

Y w

There's no need for that language!!

[Stuart]

Thanks for your contribution to the debate.

To be fair, that was pretty succinctly summed up.

[bob fleming]

Six years and a Jack Walker later...

We have to face up to having 6-7000 ST holders on after Venkys leave is and we are in League One. That would make us a decent League One club.

Every season that goes by with Venkys taking the @#/? out of fans you can knock another 500 off that figure. I think we have about 4000 hardcore fans which would still keep us as a decent L1 side.

It all hinges on what an administrator decides - after speaking with Seneca and the Trust - about that £100m (and still rising) debt.

Pretty much on the same page there Stuart. Apart from for some on here "hardcore" is replaced by the disparaging term "super".

To be fair, that was pretty succinctly summed up.

Really? How dare he have a different opinion to anyone else eh? Call him a "nob" - that'll put him straight. If that doesn't work kick him in the shins and pull his hair.

[Stuart]

Pretty much on the same page there Stuart. Apart from for some on here "hardcore" is replaced by the disparaging term "super".

The 'super' are a subset of the 'hardcore'.

Really? How dare he have a different opinion to anyone else eh? Call him a "nob" - that'll put him straight. If that doesn't work kick him in the shins and pull his hair.

Let's call a spade a spade on this one. Nothing to do with opinions. His post was that of a nob.

[tomphil]

ES makes his points well and that's fair enough but it still doesn't explain why they don't learn from their mistakes, are willing to communicate properly either themselves of via someone who isn't an idiot. Also why they don't run the club correctly with the correct staff and why they continue to create mountains more debt with silly decisions.

They've had chance after chance to get it right particularly after GB had steadied things down the first time but they again just did nothing. Add in all the other stuff and sorry but for me and thousands of others non of it adds up.

Something was very wrong in the centre of all this right from the beginning and it remains the case today !

[bob fleming]

The 'super' are a subset of the 'hardcore'.

Let's call a spade a spade on this one. Nothing to do with opinions. His post was that of a nob.

So is he entitled to his opinion on here or not? Or can we just call everyone we don't agree with "nobs"? It would save a lot of typing I must admit.

[Stuart]

So is he entitled to his opinion on here or not? Or can we just call everyone we don't agree with "nobs"? It would save a lot of typing I must admit.

Bob. He called me (personally, not a generalisation) 'an enemy of the club' because I believe Venkys are killing the club and need to go.

Sorry if you don't like it but if that's his 'opinion' then I'm damned if I'm just going to accept it. I stand by my comment.

[bob fleming]

Bob. He called me (personally, not a generalisation) 'an enemy of the club' because I believe Venkys are killing the club and need to go.

Sorry if you don't like it but if that's his 'opinion' then I'm damned if I'm just going to accept it. I stand by my comment.

Aye, he did, just read it. Bit heavy that. No need.

Ill get me coat...

[Gav]

So is he entitled to his opinion on here or not? Or can we just call everyone we don't agree with "nobs"? It would save a lot of typing I must admit.

ES's comments last night did him no favours bob, his pompous know it all attitude and name calling was right out of the playground and designed to antagonise.

I wouldn't normally support anyone calling a fellow poster a knob, but Ewood Spark was a complete knob last night and deserves everything he gets.

[47er]

The difference between ES and just about any other poster on here is that he goads other fans and enjoys it.

What they need now is a lucky break with an appointment of a quality manager and advisor.

All together now "All You Need Is Luck"!!

FFS! 5 and a half years of bad luck! You really believe this?

[Kettledrum]

The difference between ES and just about any other poster on here is that he goads other fans and enjoys it.

All together now "All You Need Is Luck"!!

FFS! 5 and a half years of bad luck! You really believe this?

you need to make your own luck

[47er]

Not a particularly bad post over all but I have to single this line out because personally I've reached the point where I want to snap my phone in half upon hearing it.

Be it anything in life, there are 2 reasons why something that you want to do well keeps on being done terribly:

1. You are thoroughly and utterly incompetent and incapable in the whole area you want to do well in. However the longer the time you continue doing terribly, the more your motives have to be questioned, as surely nobody is quite that bleeding awful?

2. Your commitment to doing well is zero. Practically no money, time or interest is invested. You say you want it to do well and then for years at a time leave it in the hands of someone else. This is my opinion of Venkys, their claims of genuine benevolence to the club are only worthy of being used to wipe one's backside.

A third factor you might have included is carrying on in the same old way and totally failing to learn from your mistakes.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Bob. He called me (personally, not a generalisation) 'an enemy of the club' because I believe Venkys are killing the club and need to go.

Sorry if you don't like it but if that's his 'opinion' then I'm damned if I'm just going to accept it. I stand by my comment.

Wouldn't worry too much Stuart,as for the vast majority of Rovers fans were Venkys are concerned....

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.