[Archived] Takeover / Part Takeover ?

[47er]

I have my former 'pension pot' invested with a company similar to Seneca, rather than simply taking out an annuity which was the 'old way' prior to the recent government changes on the way you can access your pension monies.

In the lead up to putting your 'pot' with them, they run a series of psychometric type tests on you which determine your risk tolerance, ie. do you wish your monies to be invested in low, medium or high risk companies/shares etc. These can be tweaked at any time but essentially, if you were low risk for example, they would put your monies in ISAs, government bonds, building society accounts and say shares in blue chip companies like ICI and M & S. Right the way through to high risk which may well be shares in new but exciting companies with high potential but also uncertainty.

Well, in my opinion, investing in a football club would fall into the category of extremely high risk. Let's be honest, how many clubs up and down the country make a profit? How many clubs make a profit say one year in five or how many make a profit year after year? Virtually none unless you're Manchester United. That aside, if your risk strategy was in fact high, there would be no reason why a company like Seneca could not invest their clients' monies in a football club.

As I said yesterday, it's the best thing to happen at BRFC for five and a half years, even though at this stage there's still only a glimmer of hope due to Venky's track record of remaining silent. I am sure the two Ians will have done their homework and obviously wish them all the best. If they get a foot in the door there will surely be exciting times ahead.

I have a pension pot too and if my financial adviser thinks some part of it should be changed, he gives me a ring and we discuss it. Sometimes I take his advice, sometimes I don't.

This is the ONLY basis on which I operate and I would consider no other.

Anyone who allows someone else to put their money in a football club without their permission is an idiot.

I wasn't aware this was an area in which Seneca operates but I believe my original statement stands.

I am assuming this is a discrete project with a conglomerate of sympathetic people operating outside and on top of their normal business -----till I hear otherwise!

[Paul]

Two questions struck me :

1. I wonder why the two Ian's didn't leak the proposal prior to the final match - Venky out chants may have had more effect if people felt there was a genuine alternative

I don't have any more knowledge of the deal than Kamy posted. I do though have personal knowledge unrelated to the club which leads me to believe it is highly unlikely this was the source of the leak.

Add to this what little we know of Venky's and their likely reaction to a leak and I'd suggest for the potential deal makers to leak the information would be an extraordinary high risk strategy, one which could impact the deal from the offset.

I think your barking up the wrong tree.

[MCMC1875]

It isn't hard to find out

I'll leave the rest up to sarcys like yourself

That's not a sarcastic post. I'm challenging your statement.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I have been on several training courses on hedge funds and still struggle to understand them but in simple terms they gamble on stock movements. Seneca are more about investing in failing businesses to try and move on at a profit aren't they?

I thought Alan Myers was working for a hedge fund, when he said he was on gardening leave!

[BigUts]

I thought Alan Myers was working for a hedge fund, when he said he was on gardening leave!

Ha ha!

[punerover]

It is encouraging to see Wheelock tweeting that Seneca received encouragement from India

I am still confused as to whether that should be considered good news or bad, specially if you consider a hedge fund receiving "encouragements" from India

[koi]

I thought Alan Myers was working for a hedge fund, when he said he was on gardening leave!

Please tell me you're on all week?

[Glosrover]

Not at all against the takeover of the Club by a suitable party or parties but as far as I can see the 2 Ians didn't have the funds to buy and fund running the Club last time this was mooted some 3 years ago and they still don't.

Talk of part ownership is nonsensical I'm o. It needs to be a complete take over by someone who can afford it.

The trick with most of the football ownership [and probably most big business acquisitions] consortia seems to be access to business loans and working capital. The better a client business performs, the better its access to loan facilities and the cheaper its costs of capital. Successful businessmen get better quality loans and more assets to offer as loan collateral, or trust for partial investment from bond finance providers.

My guess is that very few football club owner have total exposure to the true cost or full cost of ownership. My other guess is that there must be accounting rules and/or tax allowances for losses from sports franchises, otherwise there is no defining logic to the queue of otherwise respected and savvy businessmen buying football clubs, In conventional measures of business, Jack Walker, Alan Sugar, Simon Jordan, Steve Gibson, Mike Ashley, Mohammed Fayed, Gold/Sullivan, Madjeski, Whelan, Davies, Bates, etc etc are all considered successful and sensible business people with good [if not the best] advisors. They all go for football club ownership, they aren't stupid, it cant be an ego trip for all of them and it keeps happening, there is something none of us are privvy to.

[J*B]

Hedge fund or no hedge fund, if someone offered me Vinjay and ABBEY on the board id take it in current circumstances. Having fans on the board is imperative as they'll do what's right for the club. Having two local successful Rovers fans running the show is dream land compared to what we've got now.

I spoke to someone trusted by Venkys last week and their words on Pasha would strike fear into most Rovers fans hearts.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Please tell me you're on all week?

Got made redundant, so idle hands etc...

[PeteJD13]

I am still confused as to whether that should be considered good news or bad, specially if you consider a hedge fund receiving "encouragements" from India

tbh punerover our current owners are killing the club, I would much rather trust two local men who are rovers fans to act in the clubs best interests, as it stands the club is dieing a slow death.

[Mani]

I welcome the interest....but I do wonder what happens when / if we don't get promoted in the agreed period. Because investors always want their money back and they are not scared of asset stripping.

[Bucksrover]

I welcome the interest....but I do wonder what happens when / if we don't get promoted in the agreed period. Because investors always want their money back and they are not scared of asset stripping.

If they are clever they will realise that the most return will come from keeping us in the prem and taking money back over the long-term

[Athlete]

That's not a sarcastic post. I'm challenging your statement.

I personally don't know either of the two but know people who have done business via the Haydock based business and praise them and that's what I am going off

Having worked in that kind of environmental It's high pressure to perform for the rewards for the clients

What if anything do you know about any form of business never mind financial business or are you just looking for an argument

[McClarky]

I thought Alan Myers was working for a hedge fund, when he said he was on gardening leave!

The club has already been dragged through a hedge.

[Don Said]

Two questions struck me :

1. I wonder why the two Ian's didn't leak the proposal prior to the final match - Venky out chants may have had more effect if people felt there was a genuine alternative

I personally think it's a good time for the news to come out, coming off the back of a doom and gloom season, just after the manager announced he's walking. It's forcing Venkys in to making a big decision just as the spotlight is turning back on to them.

Would like to emphasize the point surrounding Season Tickets. There are a lot of fans that have probably walked away from this season unsure of whether they'll renew next year. Also, there are fans that have made a decision on buying/not buying, a loose decision that could be easily swayed to buy/not buy based on this summer.

If the V's don't engage with/accept these proposals, it'll be detrimental to Season Ticket sales. It'd send out a clear negative message to the supporters regarding intentions and the future. I believe this would run deeper than many past events as the proposal as we know it could be a one off lifeline - a clear attempt to save our club by professional people who care.

They've shown sheer incompetence when making big decisions since being at the club, if they stay true to form they're actively promoting the loss of even more money and fans.

[Al]

I read it as if he was one of the investors who back the Ian's... so he put up some of the money that the Ians then use to go and make investments and then pass a return back.

Don't think Simon is. I think he was just suggesting a scenario for an un-named Seneca investor.

[unsall]

Think the most interesting aspect of proposed takeover is Richadr Mathewman involved with Seneca,wonder if he is one of the backers..

[Al]

Not at all against the takeover of the Club by a suitable party or parties but as far as I can see the 2 Ians didn't have the funds to buy and fund running the Club last time this was mooted some 3 years ago and they still don't.

Talk of part ownership is nonsensical I'm o. It needs to be a complete take over by someone who can afford it.

Not going to happen Rev. The Ian's proposal is the best (if not the only) deal in town.

[Gav]

I welcome the interest....but I do wonder what happens when / if we don't get promoted in the agreed period. Because investors always want their money back and they are not scared of asset stripping.

Nobody with an ounce of business acumen would ever invest in a football club looking for a return.

They're money pits that in 95% of cases never show profit for shareholders.

[Al]

If they are clever they will realise that the most return will come from keeping us in the prem and taking money back over the long-term

Sounds like Venture Capital to me. They make their money when they exit and sell the shares when the value increases, probably by being in the Premier league. Or they could just run it and charge a management charge.

[otto man]

He's already said so longs as Venky's have the minority stake he'll be less angry, he even offered to go over and service Madam Venky if she accepts the deal.

Oil change, air filter, new brake pads, that kind of thing?

[koi]

Think the most interesting aspect of proposed takeover is Richadr Mathewman involved with Seneca,wonder if he is one of the backers..

You'd think he'd be in there somewhere plus I think him and his missus (Jack's daughter) are the only family members who take even a remote interest. Doing a check on him would suggest his business interests aren't doing so well but that wont take into account personal wealth and off course dad-in-law was worth a few quid..

Oil change, air filter, new brake pads, that kind of thing?

I think he was thinking of a more 'personal' service but it does involve lubrication and slide pins etc.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Anyone who allows someone else to put their money in a football club without their permission is an idiot.

I quite agree with you there pal.

That's why If I had to make a guess as to how this would be brokered, I would say a consortium with those putting the money in knowing full well that, should BRFC not make the PL, they stand to lose all of their stake. I use the word stake because, to me, it's more like a gamble than an investment.

[Al]

I quite agree with you there pal.

That's why If I had to make a guess as to how this would be brokered, I would say a consortium with those putting the money in knowing full well that, should BRFC not make the PL, they stand to lose all of their stake. I use the word stake because, to me, it's more like a gamble than an investment.

Gamble is what the Venture Capital people do. They just hope that they get more winners than losers.