[Archived] Next Manager

[Leonard Venkhater]

Still waiting for someone to find out his agent!

Me too...but no smiley face!

[MCMC1875]

We wouldn't get first dibs on utd youngsters if we couldn't pay their undoubtedly high loan fees anyway. Appointing Joyce is a ridiculous option to take. It's true that all managerial appointments are a risk but some are more risky than others. This idea of bringing through youth works if you're a highly successful club already but we'd be starting almost from scratch as very few of our youngsters, if any, are good enough to bring in fees worth mentioning, fees that would be worth more than the cost of their training. The first team squad is what needs investment in terms of time money and quality then you can start thinking about bringing young lads through. Get one right and, in the right hands, the other takes care of itself

More people are saying that the cost of running a class 1 academy is a waste of money for club like Rovers because we can't attract the best youngsters. The big city clubs take the pick of the best. Better value for money to run a class 2 academy.

[bluefred]

So are we to be the new CREWE ?

[tomphil]

Haha mate, the guy manages everything under the first team at United and is ridiculously well thought of. Takes no crap off anyone. The assurances he's seeking are more in relation to running and control than cash (opposite to PL)

I doubt he'll see the season out then but if it is actually finally a plan to rebuild from bottom to top then IF he's left to get on with it there's a chance it might work. Problem is what happens to the first team whilst all this is going on because quite simply without investment it will drop again, end of.

We can look at the Kidd situation and although different time, backing and levels there were parallels with GB's time. Both worked hard with individuals on the training ground, both accommodated players in their sides when there were better alternatives and both brought a few really good players in. However neither could translate that to a decent consistent first team on matchdays and neither had a real style of play.

Because they were nothing more than coaches applying coaching methods to first team matchday management. It's a huge risk.

[OJRovers]

Joyce has GB MkII written all over it.

[Tricky]

Joyce joins us, Mourinho brings in Gary Neville as assistant & Giggs u21 manager

[dallydally]

Joyce was interviewed yesterday. Package agreed. He's asked for certain things re whole set up of the club etc. Wants to build the club from top to bottom. If he gets the right answer, the deal is done!

FYI - tough, tough guy. No messing and certainly no puppet.

Your source?

[tomphil]

We wouldn't get first dibs on utd youngsters if we couldn't pay their undoubtedly high loan fees anyway. Appointing Joyce is a ridiculous option to take. It's true that all managerial appointments are a risk but some are more risky than others. This idea of bringing through youth works if you're a highly successful club already but we'd be starting almost from scratch as very few of our youngsters, if any, are good enough to bring in fees worth mentioning, fees that would be worth more than the cost of their training. The first team squad is what needs investment in terms of time money and quality then you can start thinking about bringing young lads through. Get one right and, in the right hands, the other takes care of itself

Nope we wouldn't get fist dibs on any decent Utd youngsters but you could bet it would work the other way ! Also we'll end up giving air time to some they want shut of probably like the shop window agents like to use clubs like us for. Football works like that and for the V's they'd get some nice publicity back home with any close ties with a club like Utd.

[JHRover]

The 'bringing through youth' ideal is a myth. It doesn't exist in practice, only in theory for the romantics who envisage Rovers as some sort of self-sustainable club that can survive and thrive long term relying on academy products.

At best the academy will produce 1-2 people every couple of years who are capable of breaking into the first team and establishing themselves there. We were managed by Bowyer for 2.5 years who knew the academy inside out from his lengthy spell as a youth coach yet time after time he looked outside the club rather than into the academy when he needed new players.

There is no club in the top 2 divisions that relies on the fruits of their academy. The closest we can get is Southampton, and they have a fantastic mixture of academy products who they keep long term rather than sell off combined with expensive quality foreign signings.

All this theory is is an excuse for no money to be spent on new players, which in time will ensure ongoing decline on the pitch. Maybe one day we'll reach the Venky way when we're in League Two and our Category A academy produces a League One/Championship standard player to sell off every season to help meet running costs. Exciting times.

Meanwhile every other Championship club understands the need for immediate results and success on the pitch as they chase the promised land and riches of the Premier League. Ambition, what a wonderful thing. Try and imagine Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest bringing in a youth coach this summer to manage them. It doesn't happen anywhere else but here.

[Mani]

More people are saying that the cost of running a class 1 academy is a waste of money for club like Rovers because we can't attract the best youngsters. The big city clubs take the pick of the best. Better value for money to run a class 2 academy.

That is one of the most odd things I've ever heard!? Downgrade the academy? Wow

Your source?

Haha come off it....you'll have an idea of which side it's come from.

[T J Hooker]

[

[dallydally]

Not surprised that Joyce looks like the hot favourite now but very disappointed that this is the route we are going. I hope I'm wrong but I cannot see this leading to anything other than League One

[booth]

Joyce was interviewed yesterday. Package agreed. He's asked for certain things re whole set up of the club etc. Wants to build the club from top to bottom. If he gets the right answer, the deal is done!

FYI - tough, tough guy. No messing and certainly no puppet.

He will be sacked by Christmas.

[Tricky]

billy davies gone from 12/1 to 4/1 on sky bet since last night...

[tomphil]

The 'bringing through youth' ideal is a myth. It doesn't exist in practice, only in theory for the romantics who envisage Rovers as some sort of self-sustainable club that can survive and thrive long term relying on academy products.

At best the academy will produce 1-2 people every couple of years who are capable of breaking into the first team and establishing themselves there. We were managed by Bowyer for 2.5 years who knew the academy inside out from his lengthy spell as a youth coach yet time after time he looked outside the club rather than into the academy when he needed new players.

There is no club in the top 2 divisions that relies on the fruits of their academy. The closest we can get is Southampton, and they have a fantastic mixture of academy products who they keep long term rather than sell off combined with expensive quality foreign signings.

All this theory is is an excuse for no money to be spent on new players, which in time will ensure ongoing decline on the pitch. Maybe one day we'll reach the Venky way when we're in League Two and our Category A academy produces a League One/Championship standard player to sell off every season to help meet running costs. Exciting times.

Meanwhile every other Championship club understands the need for immediate results and success on the pitch as they chase the promised land and riches of the Premier League. Ambition, what a wonderful thing. Try and imagine Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest bringing in a youth coach this summer to manage them. It doesn't happen anywhere else but here.

Aye and Soton went down to league 1 before they began the rebuild. Difference being there they got a decent owner in with a real plan and investment. Also helped by the fact they could pull big crowds in.

Never happen here under this ownership because they'll never build the proper infracstructre and then back it. They seem to like keeping a turnover of staff and having huge 'book' losses year in year out for some very dark reasons.

[JHRover]

billy davies gone from 12/1 to 4/1 on sky bet since last night...

As much as I'd like it to, it isn't going to happen. The fact that Davies is keen to get back to work and has basically offered his services to the club, before we ignore him and appoint some no-mark coach just rubs salt in the wounds.

[47er]

Not surprised that Joyce looks like the hot favourite now but very disappointed that this is the route we are going. I hope I'm wrong but I cannot see this leading to anything other than League One

The most astonishing question in Glen's long list of astonishing questions (Meeting thread page 1) was about Kean allegedly having provision in his contract for what happened if we were relegated to Div 1!!

That is utterly lncredible. The prospect was apparently clear to all of the potential consequences of what they were doing.

So why do it? Not to get us Champions League football was it?

[Gav]

He will be sacked by Christmas.

Absolutely

He's probably the worst appointment out of the bunch, very little managerial experience and not prepared for whats on offer here.

But I doubt he's even been interviewed yet, so lets not get ahead of ourselves.

[JHRover]

For an alternate angle Nixon, who to be fair has been right on most things recently, is saying it won't be Joyce, as all the interviews planned have been done, with recommendations sent off to India for consideration.

Nixon seems unable or unwilling to disclose who is on the list of possibilities, but says the decision is now in the hands of those in India.

[Commondore]

Joyce was interviewed yesterday. Package agreed. He's asked for certain things re whole set up of the club etc. Wants to build the club from top to bottom. If he gets the right answer, the deal is done!

FYI - tough, tough guy. No messing and certainly no puppet.

How many times has a manager achieved something like that in English football in modern times? Ferguson, Wenger, Gradi at Crewe... Am I missing someone?

[JBiz]

The 'bringing through youth' ideal is a myth. It doesn't exist in practice, only in theory for the romantics who envisage Rovers as some sort of self-sustainable club that can survive and thrive long term relying on academy products.

At best the academy will produce 1-2 people every couple of years who are capable of breaking into the first team and establishing themselves there. We were managed by Bowyer for 2.5 years who knew the academy inside out from his lengthy spell as a youth coach yet time after time he looked outside the club rather than into the academy when he needed new players.

There is no club in the top 2 divisions that relies on the fruits of their academy. The closest we can get is Southampton, and they have a fantastic mixture of academy products who they keep long term rather than sell off combined with expensive quality foreign signings.

All this theory is is an excuse for no money to be spent on new players, which in time will ensure ongoing decline on the pitch. Maybe one day we'll reach the Venky way when we're in League Two and our Category A academy produces a League One/Championship standard player to sell off every season to help meet running costs. Exciting times.

Meanwhile every other Championship club understands the need for immediate results and success on the pitch as they chase the promised land and riches of the Premier League. Ambition, what a wonderful thing. Try and imagine Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest bringing in a youth coach this summer to manage them. It doesn't happen anywhere else but here.

How else can we be sustained then? For the club to be sustainable we need money, the fan base couldn't do it without doubling or even trebling ticket costs, and we'd still be miles behind even the Forests, Derbys, Brightons in this division never mind those on parachute payments.

GB was manager when the Academy had essentially been ignored for the years previous, sticking up in Slews on 10k a week, portugeezers and Miles for your money Anderson.

Southampton are an excellent example but for how useful of a foundation it can be to build on. They did sell some players also, Walcott, Bale etc. They also instigated (through cortese) a scouting system better than anyone else in the league, including the same approach for potential managers.

If we have any money to invest, I'm all for it going into these areas, keeping a grade 1 academy going. Someone said we can't get the best choice in the area and a level 2 would be better, but you've even less chance to get the better doing that.

There seems to be a general expectation from the fan base to invest in top class managers and players etc - I'd sooner they stopped putting 10/15m a year on the debt personally since they're doing it that way and not in a JW mould. It's been done to death but if we'd invested what we had in a manager and squad after Big Sam( or just kept him) we'd be far away from this crap.

We aren't Aston Villa, coming into this league with the wage structure of a premier league team. It would make zero sense for them to go for anyone but a properly qualified promotion manager!

We are Blackburn Rovers. 5 years down the road of first team failure in this division, without a pot to @#/? in and in need of a complete rebuild. I feel like if WJ was a John Williams choice, many here would be calling it the other way.

Every appointment is a risk, and I'm not stupid enough to think someone without experience of this league or level is more of a risk. By his reputation alone, Lambert should've ensured the play offs with 29 games but it's never that simple. Hughes was a huge risk and success and whilst obvious differences in scenario are stark, I'd be interested in hearing what Joyce has to say before writing this off as a cheap second rate solution.

[Tricky]

For an alternate angle Nixon, who to be fair has been right on most things recently, is saying it won't be Joyce, as all the interviews planned have been done, with recommendations sent off to India for consideration.

Nixon seems unable or unwilling to disclose who is on the list of possibilities, but says the decision is now in the hands of those in India.

PHIL PARKINSON is on four clubs’ radar.

Bradford’s German owners want Uwe Rosler as boss.

This has alerted Nottingham Forest, Blackburn, Bolton, and Derby.

[47er]

Stuart said there would be posts like this!(referring to J Biz above)

[Mani]

He will be sacked by Christmas.

Probably. Not saying I want him to get it. Just passing on the facts.

How many times has a manager achieved something like that in English football in modern times? Ferguson, Wenger, Gradi at Crewe... Am I missing someone?

Howe? Maybe....tough gig

[JBiz]

Stuart said there would be posts like this!(referring to J Biz above)

What, insightful and articulate discussion? Tell him thanks from me