[Archived] Next Manager

[Mani]

Stuart said there would be posts like this!(referring to J Biz above)

What is wrong with this post?

[JHRover]

How else can we be sustained then? For the club to be sustainable we need money, the fan base couldn't do it without doubling or even trebling ticket costs, and we'd still be miles behind even the Forests, Derbys, Brightons in this division never mind those on parachute payments.

GB was manager when the Academy had essentially been ignored for the years previous, sticking up in Slews on 10k a week, portugeezers and Miles for your money Anderson.

Southampton are an excellent example but for how useful of a foundation it can be to build on. They did sell some players also, Walcott, Bale etc. They also instigated (through cortese) a scouting system better than anyone else in the league, including the same approach for potential managers.

If we have any money to invest, I'm all for it going into these areas, keeping a grade 1 academy going. Someone said we can't get the best choice in the area and a level 2 would be better, but you've even less chance to get the better doing that.

There seems to be a general expectation from the fan base to invest in top class managers and players etc - I'd sooner they stopped putting 10/15m a year on the debt personally since they're doing it that way and not in a JW mould. It's been done to death but if we'd invested what we had in a manager and squad after Big Sam( or just kept him) we'd be far away from this crap.

We aren't Aston Villa, coming into this league with the wage structure of a premier league team. It would make zero sense for them to go for anyone but a properly qualified promotion manager!

We are Blackburn Rovers. 5 years down the road of first team failure in this division, without a pot to @#/? in and in need of a complete rebuild. I feel like if WJ was a John Williams choice, many here would be calling it the other way.

Every appointment is a risk, and I'm not stupid enough to think someone without experience of this league or level is more of a risk. By his reputation alone, Lambert should've ensured the play offs with 29 games but it's never that simple. Hughes was a huge risk and success and whilst obvious differences in scenario are stark, I'd be interested in hearing what Joyce has to say before writing this off as a cheap second rate solution.

Birmingham, Rotherham, Bristol City, Forest, Ipswich, Preston - none are receiving parachute money, yet none have transformed themselves into some sort of production facility for kids. They've found ways of assembling decent squads on limited budgets.

Charlton attempted the model of relying on youngsters and selling them for a profit and look where it took them.

Money needs to come from the owners to build a competitive team. If this lot aren't prepared to do it then they should sell up to someone who is.

We won't get promoted relying on a conveyor belt of youth and academy products. The only chance we have of getting promoted is to recruit a squad of quality players and a quality manager who know how to win games and grind out results in this league. Did Burnley get promoted under Dyche with a squad of kids? No, they recruited well by finding seasoned pro's who knew the division.

Its just an excuse for no spending on players and will see us decline further. Every club needs someone running it with money to invest and a serious, credible, sensible plan. We've got owners who want to stop investing serious money and certainly don't have a credible plan.

[G Somerset Rover]

List gone off to India to approval? More likely Switzerland or London, or wherever tantric and his cronies are based.

[Mattyblue]

It is very simple, if the owners want the club to be 'profitable', relying on 'up and coming' managers, academy graduates and free transfers, whilst selling off our top players (assuming we have any) we will be a League 1 club (at best) with our income.

[Waggy76]

As the job of Rovers manager been officially advertised ?

If not why not and see who actually wants ...

Its looking like another Venky balls up to me....

[Al]

For an alternate angle Nixon, who to be fair has been right on most things recently, is saying it won't be Joyce, as all the interviews planned have been done, with recommendations sent off to India for consideration.

Nixon seems unable or unwilling to disclose who is on the list of possibilities, but says the decision is now in the hands of those in India.

That's because he has no bloody idea!

[JBiz]

Birmingham, Rotherham, Bristol City, Forest, Ipswich, Preston - none are receiving parachute money, yet none have transformed themselves into some sort of production facility for kids. They've found ways of assembling decent squads on limited budgets.

Charlton attempted the model of relying on youngsters and selling them for a profit and look where it took them.

Money needs to come from the owners to build a competitive team. If this lot aren't prepared to do it then they should sell up to someone who is.

We won't get promoted relying on a conveyor belt of youth and academy products. The only chance we have of getting promoted is to recruit a squad of quality players and a quality manager who know how to win games and grind out results in this league. Did Burnley get promoted under Dyche with a squad of kids? No, they recruited well by finding seasoned pro's who knew the division.

Its just an excuse for no spending on players and will see us decline further. Every club needs someone running it with money to invest and a serious, credible, sensible plan. We've got owners who want to stop investing serious money and certainly don't have a credible plan.

Bristol city have spent millions, Rotherham have a "decent" squad that warnock got the most out of, Rowett was an unknown but has been helped by selling a few lads, namely the 5m for gray. Ipswich have kept a good core together without investing money such as the Cresswell, Mings etc.

Howe signed many players for cheap, younger unproven types to mould into his own. Done the same thing at Bournemouth, and Dyche continued that work. Whilst Bournemouth had investment, Burnley didn't - only through remnants of parachute payments from before and replacing key players with the money they took from sales.

We are in no way anywhere near this position JHR. Just how much would need to be invested to "guarantee" promotion or develop something that took both previously mentioned clubs 4/5 years or longer to build up.

We need a "credible" long term plan similar in my opinion, I think we've crossed wires a bit - I see development of the youth as a way to save money for a decent first team and give a chance to invest should any sell - not pay the bills selling a player every season.

We sold our best player and even if every penny of his contract and fee went to the debt, would it touch 10% of it? Investing more is just building more pressure from a finance point of view IMO.

Charlton are owned by a guy who has a few clubs I think, moving players between to make profits. I don't know enough to give an opinion on them but there's a serious difference in debt levels.

Investing the bits we have in academy, scouting, building up affiliations or cheap unknown players with potential is going to be the way out IMO.

I can't deny I wouldn't prefer a Pearson, Martinez, Moyes etc but I don't think anyone trying to rebuild their reputation would take this job on without serious investment on a short term basis!

[gumboots]

I just cant see who we have in our academy U21 set up that is a nailed in first team player at this level so even if the plan could work urd be a few years down the line by which time if we still exist well be in league 2

In the mean time, no manager news?

[DE.]

Ipswich are in essentially the same position as us debt wise. I think they're pushing £90m, if not higher, with the vast majority owed to Marcus Evans.

The difference is that they have a proper board structure, long-term aims and a manager with experience and credibility. Since dropping into the Championship we've never had 2 of those 3, and only 1 of the 3 for half a year. Looks like we'll be back at 0 for the upcoming season, which will almost certainly end in relegation if a proper manager is not appointed.

Still... dem youth players.

[JHRover]

Ipswich are in essentially the same position as us debt wise. I think they're pushing £90m, if not higher, with the vast majority owed to Marcus Evans.

The difference is that they have a proper board structure, long-term aims and a manager with experience and credibility. Since dropping into the Championship we've never had 2 of those 3, and only 1 of the 3 for half a year. Looks like we'll be back at 0 for the upcoming season, which will almost certainly end in relegation if a proper manager is not appointed.

Still... dem youth players.

This is exactly it.

We don't need to be a youth production facility. Ipswich aren't. Yes they've sold the odd up and coming player when the time has been right in Cresswell and Mings and made good money out of it, which will always be the case for every Championship club if a Premier League side comes along, but their function and purpose as a club isn't to produce kids and then sell them. That is a by product of their academy success and good management. Ipswich have recognised the importance of appointing proper, experienced managers who have worked to a tight budget, McCarthy is the expert at it. They haven't approached a youth coach to be their manager, and they don't try to build their team around kids.

Then there's the fact that Ipswich are a professional football club, which we are not. Professional in that they have a chairman, a chief exectutive, a board, communication with their supporters, some sort of plan whilst accepting they have overspent and can't splash the cash. In a way everything we should be in this division and proof that despite limited resources the play-offs can be achieved with a CLUED UP EXPERIENCED MANAGER (which we seem determined to avoid appointing).

Its only us. Nobody else in the league does it, so why should we? Its an excuse to not spend any money and people are buying it as some romantic or needs must situation.

[Blue blood]

Then he won't get those assurances. Lambert didn't and Warnock didn't I'd suggest.

In any case the lying barstewards will reneg whenever they feel like it.

We are off on another Venky adventure and they are always short-lived.

Weep for the club.

Spot. On.

We've had lots of reassurances from our owners. ALL have been reneged on. Joyce only has to look at our history in the last 6 months, never mind the last 5 years to see this.

Oh, then there's all the times they won't communicate.

Build the club from the ground up? It needs it, but given they can't even get a proper board in place, what evidence is there that they'll give us a whole (positive) revamp? None whatsoever.

No, Joyce has to be pretty naive and stupid to think Venkys will give him the resources to make this a successful project. They've gone back on every promise they've made - there is no evidence to suggest they'll do anything other than for the next guy. Unless he's desperate and fools himself, discussions with, and examining Venkys actions only leads managers one way - steering clear of Rovers.

[koi]

More people are saying that the cost of running a class 1 academy is a waste of money for club like Rovers because we can't attract the best youngsters. The big city clubs take the pick of the best. Better value for money to run a class 2 academy.

A class 1 academy is a major benefit when it comes to FFP accounting, downgrade that and we'd have absolutely no chance of meeting the rules.

[JHRover]

Joyce can sit tight at United on his very good salary in a safe and secure job until retirement. If he's desperate to be a manager in his own right and he's that much of a good un then surely he will have other opportunities in future. If we're the only opportunity he's had or likely to get then I think that says it all about our managerial 'search' and about how 'highly rated' he really is as a potential manager in the making.

If he had any sense he'd hold back and wait for a better club to become manager at. He can probably hold United to ransom for an improved contract and will probably get better paid for them as u21 boss than he would here as manager. Plus he could be left to do his job to the best of his abilities rather than be left out on a limb by the disgraceful people running this club like Bowyer and Lambert were.

[RibbleValleyRover]

He will be sacked by Christmas.

Yep when Rovers are adrift from safety most likely.

If you are a Premier League club that has a solid squad and is pretty successful then you have the time and resources to develop your youth program and focus perhaps on utilizing it more. You can't say the same for a club that is in massive debt doesn't have the resources and at the same time is fighting to stay in the Championship.

We will be making the same mistake as we did with Bowyer, someone without the experience of being a first team coach, assistant manager or manager. Results and tactical knowledge isn't a priority for a youth manager it's all about developing the talent for the first team coaching setup and manager to use if they should need it or choose to use it.

John Williams by the way would never make this sort of hire if he was here and Rovers are in the situation they are in. He would know that money would be needed to be spent and that Rovers have to find a way to get out of this division and into the Premier League, not stagnate and regress even further into the Championship/League One.

[Gav]

Blackburn Rovers is clearly still seen as a very good job because people outside of the Blackburn & Darwen bubble know nothing about whats gone on here over the past 6yrs, they think its just been bad luck and bad advice like Lambert did, but he was soon off when he realised.

Joyce probably can't believe his luck,

"this lot won the Premiership in 95 and league cup in 2002"

Its a dream job for a 3rd rate coach!

But an absolute nightmare for the fans.

[Stuart]

It is very simple, if the owners want the club to be 'profitable', relying on 'up and coming' managers, academy graduates and free transfers, whilst selling off our top players (assuming we have any) we will be a League 1 club (at best) with our income.

Maybe so but how long would it take to pay off the debt on that basis? After we have covered loan repayments, of course.

[tomphil]

Yep when Rovers are adrift from safety most likely.

If you are a Premier League club that has a solid squad and is pretty successful then you have the time and resources to develop your youth program and focus perhaps on utilizing it more. You can't say the same for a club that is in massive debt doesn't have the resources and at the same time is fighting to stay in the Championship.

We will be making the same mistake as we did with Bowyer, someone without the experience of being a first team coach, assistant manager or manager. Results and tactical knowledge isn't a priority for a youth manager it's all about developing the talent for the first team coaching setup and manager to use if they should need it or choose to use it.

John Williams by the way would never make this sort of hire if he was here and Rovers are in the situation they are in. He would know that money would be needed to be spent and that Rovers have to find a way to get out of this division and into the Premier League, not stagnate and regress even further into the Championship/League One.

These lot now want to run everything on a shoestring though. One guy running the whole football side as well as managing the first team whilst they run everything else from India when they feel like it, meanwhile we have an accountant passing on the cheques for the bills.

It's franchise fc and you'd presume they now just want to spend the next 100 yrs turning out youth in quantity for all unsundry whilst servicing the gargantuan debt.

Their bank might have slapped a lid on them keep extending the debt but they won't be too worried if it's covered by assets in India and they are getting interest on it. There'll be no rush either side to pay it off because look Mr Banker we've sold 20 mill pounds worth of players recently and aim to do that every 2 or 3 yrs, there's no problem. We'll keep the club now running within it's limited means so everything else is a bonus.

They're all daft enough to believe this will work.

[JHRover]

Latest odds:

Warnock 6/4

Slade 10/1

Davies 12/1

Hignett 12/1

Hill 12/1

Redfearn 12/1

Stubbs 14/1

Ainsworth 16/1

Jewell 33/1

In other words, the bookies haven't got the slightest clue, and probably are past caring. For Joyce to not even be in the betting despite strong rumours of an approach yesterday suggests they've given up on the market and attempting to make money out of this.

When the 2nd favourite is at odds of 10/1 after almost a month of 'searching' for a manager there is something seriously wrong.

[martonrover]

Latest odds:

Warnock 6/4

Slade 10/1

Davies 12/1

Hignett 12/1

Hill 12/1

Redfearn 12/1

Stubbs 14/1

Ainsworth 16/1

Jewell 33/1

In other words, the bookies haven't got the slightest clue, and probably are past caring. For Joyce to not even be in the betting despite strong rumours of an approach yesterday suggests they've given up on the market and attempting to make money out of this.

When the 2nd favourite is at odds of 10/1 after almost a month of 'searching' for a manager there is something seriously wrong.

Joyce 7/4 on Skybet, (Warnock also 6/4 with them).

[Mercer]

Joyce is 7/4 with Sky Bet and a colleague of mine in Manchester understands he has been granted permission to speak with Rovers. IF this is the case then I think the job is his.

[oldjamfan1]

Joyce is 7/4 with Sky Bet and a colleague of mine in Manchester understands he has been granted permission to speak with Rovers. IF this is the case then I think the job is his.

According to another poster those talks have already taken place???

[47er]

What is wrong with this post?

No matter how hopeless the appointment will be there will always be those who say "give him a chance, don't judge him yet, give him till Christmas etc etc"

Heard it all and sick of it.

[Iceman]

Joyce is 7/4 with Sky Bet and a colleague of mine in Manchester understands he has been granted permission to speak with Rovers. IF this is the case then I think the job is his.

Pfft crazy

[47er]

I can't deny I wouldn't prefer a Pearson, Martinez, Moyes etc but I don't think anyone trying to rebuild their reputation would take this job on without serious investment on a short term basis!

Like Lambert then?

[Mercer]

According to another poster those talks have already taken place???

May well be the case given what my colleague understands is the position. Only posting what I've been told.