[Archived] Next Manager

[A cup of beans]

That remains very much to be seen. The longer it drags on without a resolution, the stronger a possibility Irvine becomes I'd have thought.

And remarkably, becomes more and more preferable ~(even considering his horrific managerial record).

[47er]

So Lambert walked into it with his eyes wide open. He knew by repute that he couldn't trust them.

What's wrong with that?He was correct wasn't he? At least he didn't concoct an unfair dismissal case or hang on for the money long after his committment had gone.

Seems admirable behaviour to me Rev.

[RevidgeBlue]

I didn't liken him to Kendall, I simply said that the experienced Iley failed whilst the inexperienced Kendall was a major success. The point being that every managerial appointment is a gamble and doesn't always work out as you might expect. It seems clear that the owners don't want to sell the club and don't want to spend much on transfer fees. Until someone can come up with an offer large enough to tempt them to sell we are where we are. If the aim is to work and develop younger players - either from within the club or from without - and bring in cheap or free signings to work with them then the manager will need to one who is well versed in coaching and developing that type of player. Whilst I admit that Joyce is a gamble it may well be one that pays off. One suspects that someone like Davies would become very frustrated by the lack of money in the same way that Lambert did.

Well argued Parson, I still don't think it's the way to go. As regards your last point a new man might find the communication and money is a little more forthcoming if they're actually producing performances and results in the meantime.

[West Yorks Rover]

Or he thought there was nothing to be lost having a well paid quick stab at getting us into the play offs with the security of the get out clause if it didn't happen.

Or, he didn't like working for owners who wouldn't even communicate with him, and their board of directors had all done runners.

[rog of the rovers]

Leeds going for Bristol Rovers manager Darrell Clarke?

The new trend on scouring the lower leagues for managers......

[K-Hod]

Well argued Parson, I still don't think it's the way to go. As regards your last point a new man might find the communication and money is a little more forthcoming if they're actually producing performances and results in the meantime.

Based on what has happened since Lambert announced he was leaving, it's very doubtful that Venky's would loosen the purse strings for anyone any more imo. Unless their wife is well in with Mrs Desai of course.....

[JBiz]

Or more fairly;

According to your own post no-one trying to rebuild their reputation would take on the job without short-term investment.

Since Lambert did take the job on, he must have been led to believe there would be investment which did not materialise.

The same will happen to any other manager. Only the desperate should apply.

By the same token - doesn't that mean it would make at least a modicum of sense to hire someone with a long term plan under the proviso they'd have to raise their own squad investment through development? If we can't spend any money - it's not going to be worth the risk to those managers is it?

There is a difference between being "ok" with something and thinking its a good idea. I'm just as downtrodden with the scenario as anyone, I was angry when PL left because it obviously meant another process of reliance on the daft system we have running the club.

What would be my initial decision if I found myself owning the club right now? Hire a chairman whose proven and understands the club and let him make all the decisions.

Since I'm not in a position, and we are under the impression that Venkys aren't going to do that, (and this is the manager thread) considering the pros and cons of suggested or rumoured appointments should be par for the course.

Instead, many posters keep bringing out the "apologist" sentiment. Tiresome.

If you had me at gun point, from what I've read - I'd take WJ over Hill, Dunn, Redfearn etc. Doesn't mean I'm chuffed to bits or demanding that any other fan should get behind the manager. That's your decision to make.

If WJ comes without support and the communications position is given to some yes man or complete idiot again... My prediction would be the same as anyone else's. Sacked within months.

[JHRover]

Lambert is a victim of this regime just like we are. The difference is he could walk away as a professional having earned a fortune and will not lose any sleep over it. We can't.

Was he misled? Possibly. Did he only ever approach it as a short term fix to get his reputation improved after Villa? Possibly.

I admire the decision he made to walk away when he could have stuck at it and pocketed his cash. I admire the transparency of his interviews when he showed us all once and for all what a set of clowns there are running this club. We won't get that level of honesty and transparency from the next bloke in the dugout, that I am sure of.

Lambert was a one-off freak occurrence as a manager with a track record, impressive CV that could find a job elsewhere in the Championship if he wanted. The rest of the people we've appointed are unlikely to ever work in the Championship again, and our next manager will almost certainly not be a Championship standard manager.

Fun times...

[G Somerset Rover]

The only explanation IMO for Venkys continued ownership of Rovers, is that we are now a vehicle for speculative investment in players in the hope of hitting the jackpot.

I think it's that and for fear of somebody coming in and sticking their nose through their books and exposing the whole sordid Kentaro affair.

Praying for a way out of this mess, but struggle to see how it will happen.

[alexanders]

Has Giggs been discussed ? Might not have a place at United after LVG has been sacked.

[K-Hod]

Lambert is a victim of this regime just like we are. The difference is he could walk away as a professional having earned a fortune and will not lose any sleep over it. We can't.

Was he misled? Possibly. Did he only ever approach it as a short term fix to get his reputation improved after Villa? Possibly.

I admire the decision he made to walk away when he could have stuck at it and pocketed his cash. I admire the transparency of his interviews when he showed us all once and for all what a set of clowns there are running this club. We won't get that level of honesty and transparency from the next bloke in the dugout, that I am sure of.

Lambert was a one-off freak occurrence as a manager with a track record, impressive CV that could find a job elsewhere in the Championship if he wanted. The rest of the people we've appointed are unlikely to ever work in the Championship again, and our next manager will almost certainly not be a Championship standard manager.

Fun times...

Nail, meet head. It spoke volumes for me just how unusual it was for a manager to walk away from a post, when usually they wait until the bitter end for the golden handshake once they get their marching orders.

[BlueMonday]

I think it's that and for fear of somebody coming in and sticking their nose through their books and exposing the whole sordid Kentaro affair.

Praying for a way out of this mess, but struggle to see how it will happen.

Agree GSR but as well as not wanting the books scrutinised I don't think they want to relinquish day to day running of the Club of the Club as they would be handing over control of their Transfer Income.

I don't think Venkys are worried about the increasing debt as They will just let the Club collapse and walk away when they are bored with it.

When you look at it in that context, it explains why they blanked Seneca.

[T J Hooker]

No matter how hopeless the appointment will be there will always be those who say "give him a chance, don't judge him yet, give him till Christmas etc etc"

Heard it all and sick of it.

So then shut up and log off then.

[Tricky]

Has Giggs been discussed ? Might not have a place at United after LVG has been sacked.

yeah giggs will take joyce's role

[A cup of beans]

Has Giggs been discussed ? Might not have a place at United after LVG has been sacked.

Yesterday, someone on here posted they'd heard Giggs will be the new manager (from someone in the stands at the Reading game).

As logical as any other choice.

[A cup of beans]

Nail, meet head. It spoke volumes for me just how unusual it was for a manager to walk away from a post, when usually they wait until the bitter end for the golden handshake once they get their marching orders.

Lambert was honest and very smart. His reputation was already on the slide (even with Rovers fans). He saw the difficulties and decided to get out unscathed.

One thing I would maybe question him over it, is this : Football is littered with out of work Managers, and he chose to walk away from a job, didn't back himself to achieve/ improve with Rovers.

Whether or not he thought he'd be in Glasgow by now, is another matter.

It may be a while til he gets the chance again. That's a risk to be taken.

I don't blame him, he's better off out of Rovers.

[tomphil]

Given what Glenn M was discussing last night Im now more convinced than ever, that the choice of manager has nothing to do with football philosophy or even success. It is entirely about having someone who can be controlled and have the transfer policy dictated to them in order to generate income for the syndicate. Hence the succession of inexperienced novice managers. And why we now appear to be going down the same route.

I believe that they deviated from this policy with Lambert believing, even though he was experienced, that he would be pliable, having been out of work and his stock low after the Villa events. However, being a proper manager, he started communicating his squad plans, ambition and spending requirements to Venkys. This IMO made Venkys get cold feet, realising they had a manager who they wouldn't be able to dictate transfer policy to for their own/syndicates benefit. So they cut him off.

The only explanation IMO for Venkys continued ownership of Rovers, is that we are now a vehicle for speculative investment in players in the hope of hitting the jackpot. It explains the high turn over of players since Venkys/Syndicate took over, especially the recruitment of unheard of Portuguese players. Someone previously posted a figure for transfer fees earned, which was something like £30m+ (guessing the actual figure, so happy to be corrected). The question was where the hell did that money go, certainly not on reducing the £100m+ debt!.

It should also be pointed out that this syndicate Transfer policy can operate in any division, so success on the field isn't crucial. If we drop down the leagues they just have to reduce operating costs accordingly (sound familiar?) But players can till be bought cheaply and young players developed to be sold for profit in the hope of hitting the jackpot with a high fee sale.

A nice arrangement for Venkys and the syndicate to earn an income and In the meantime, the BOI overdraft keeps the Club ticking along and the debt growing with Venkys knowing they will never have to pay it back, because they can bankrupt the Club and walk away.

Can that theory be proved? At, the moment no. But Im more convinced than ever that this is the case and best explains Venkys continued ownership of a Football Club in turmoil and with no coherent plan to turn things around.

We must have sold in the region of 60 mill worth of players under the Vs, that's some going. The sheer amount of players in general in and out of the doors along with coaching staff, managers and directors etc is staggering.

The words syndicate and vehicle are very apt because that is all this club is for to a lot of those involved in running it. God knows who or how many actually have fingers in it but it certainly isn't just 4 rich Indians.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven but then again so does football.

[Mani]

Given what Glenn M was discussing last night Im now more convinced than ever, that the choice of manager has nothing to do with football philosophy or even success. It is entirely about having someone who can be controlled and have the transfer policy dictated to them in order to generate income for the syndicate. Hence the succession of inexperienced novice managers. And why we now appear to be going down the same route.

I believe that they deviated from this policy with Lambert believing, even though he was experienced, that he would be pliable, having been out of work and his stock low after the Villa events. However, being a proper manager, he started communicating his squad plans, ambition and spending requirements to Venkys. This IMO made Venkys get cold feet, realising they had a manager who they wouldn't be able to dictate transfer policy to for their own/syndicates benefit. So they cut him off.

The only explanation IMO for Venkys continued ownership of Rovers, is that we are now a vehicle for speculative investment in players in the hope of hitting the jackpot. It explains the high turn over of players since Venkys/Syndicate took over, especially the recruitment of unheard of Portuguese players. Someone previously posted a figure for transfer fees earned, which was something like £30m+ (guessing the actual figure, so happy to be corrected). The question was where the hell did that money go, certainly not on reducing the £100m+ debt!.

It should also be pointed out that this syndicate Transfer policy can operate in any division, so success on the field isn't crucial. If we drop down the leagues they just have to reduce operating costs accordingly (sound familiar?) But players can till be bought cheaply and young players developed to be sold for profit in the hope of hitting the jackpot with a high fee sale.

A nice arrangement for Venkys and the syndicate to earn an income and In the meantime, the BOI overdraft keeps the Club ticking along and the debt growing with Venkys knowing they will never have to pay it back, because they can bankrupt the Club and walk away.

Can that theory be proved? At, the moment no. But Im more convinced than ever that this is the case and best explains Venkys continued ownership of a Football Club in turmoil and with no coherent plan to turn things around.

One small problem with this intricate theory....I can tell you categorically with as much faith possible that EVERY player signed during Bowyers reign was Bowyers choice. Bar none.

Of course there were times when they had to move to the z list because of financial constraints etc...but he was never dictated to.

[T J Hooker]

Or where they?????

[K-Hod]

Lambert was honest and very smart. His reputation was already on the slide (even with Rovers fans). He saw the difficulties and decided to get out unscathed.

One thing I would maybe question him over it, is this : Football is littered with out of work Managers, and he chose to walk away from a job, didn't back himself to achieve/ improve with Rovers.

Whether or not he thought he'd be in Glasgow by now, is another matter.

It may be a while til he gets the chance again. That's a risk to be taken.

I don't blame him, he's better off out of Rovers.

My best guess would be he was promised the funds from the Rhodes transfer, then the V's went quiet and then denied him these funds, so he quit in frustration. (Though I expect only Paul Lambert knows the truth of that!). I guess it depends how badly he wants it, if I were him I'd honestly not bother being a manager, it's a lot easier and considerably less stressful being a pundit!

[BlueMonday]

We must have sold in the region of 60 mill worth of players under the Vs, that's some going. The sheer amount of players in general in and out of the doors along with coaching staff, managers and directors etc is staggering.

The words syndicate and vehicle are very apt because that is all this club is for to a lot of those involved in running it. God knows who or how many actually have fingers in it but it certainly isn't just 4 rich Indians.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven but then again so does football.

It reminds me of a syndicate that owns a Race horse. There will be a group of backers who share in the winnings, but only a few who are involved day to day training the horse and taking it to Races.

[JBiz]

One small problem with this intricate theory....I can tell you categorically with as much faith possible that EVERY player signed during Bowyers reign was Bowyers choice. Bar none.

Of course there were times when they had to move to the z list because of financial constraints etc...but he was never dictated to.

I think many would say Graham, Ward, Bennet, Jackson et al where also PLs choices and not that of some umbrella agency dictating transfer business.

I'm not disputing that we've had some dodgy stuff going on particularly at the beginning with the NDA bonanza.

[tomphil]

Who was presenting the lists for him to pick from though ? Besides he fell on his sword just before the exited the embargo yet he was a guy who proved with a couple of quid to spend he could come up trumps in terms of increasing value ?

Why ? Because they didn't want to be under pressure to spend a bean on fees. Just look what happened with Lambert, short terms loans yes, cash signings NO chance, even after selling big.

@#/? take and now it's scrabbling around for someone to do it with youth so it costs nowt. Bank have slammed the door and these lot won't pay with their cash they never have really. It's how they do business back home.

[BlueMonday]

One small problem with this intricate theory....I can tell you categorically with as much faith possible that EVERY player signed during Bowyers reign was Bowyers choice. Bar none.

Of course there were times when they had to move to the z list because of financial constraints etc...but he was never dictated to.

When you have someone on the inside you can trust...

And how much Transfer profit did he generate?

[JBiz]

When you have someone on the inside you can trust...

And how much Transfer profit did he generate?

Enough to pay rhodes wages for another 2 seasons?