[Archived] Boycott

[punerover]

Which I agree with and I did say...

Atleast you did try something. Credit where it is due.

[Paul]

Neal I wasn't thinking of you or anyone in particular with my post. I try hard, possibly unsuccesfully, to avoid making comments directed at an individual. Whether all of what you say above is correct or not I simply don't know. I agree it's likely very few would turn out to protest now.

My one problem though is the criticism across the messageboard of those who chose to attend. There are, at a rough count, 12 different posters who have done so in this thread. I was quite taken aback when I saw some of the names who made such comments. I'm simply tired of it and if we follow the only one in ten people will actually complain principle I imagine I'm not alone.

I'm expressing how I feel as a result of the criticism aimed at those, not me specifically, who chose to attend.

[Paul]

The very fact this post has 9 likes means I must be living in a parallel universe...

Having spent far to much time on here in recent months I couldn't disagree more with assertion that posters that are attending games are being targeted by posters that are not, in my opinion thats simply not true, divisive and frankly uncalled for.

Being both seasoned posters you learn to roll with the punches, not take things to seriously, and posters that court controversy on this very subject are usually the ones that nip in throw a hand grade and sod off for weeks, we can all see through them can't we?

The regular well respected posters have been very respectful of people attending or not attending in the main, thats why I feel that your claim simply isn't true.

As for "Something needs to be done" well we could argue about this all day long.....

We have The Trust that gets involved only when it suits, and we have BRAG, a group born out of protest that doesn't protest any longer. These are 2 well established supporters groups, that could if they chose to lead some sort of protest against on the owners that are killing the club, but no its down to individuals on a messageboad in your option to get the ball rolling which to my mind is just a cop out, another reason to do nothing.

Absolutely

GAV I have not asserted non-attenders are targetting those who do go - I don't think this is the case. I'm saying I'm tired of reading criticism of those, which includes myself, who chose to go to Ewood. There are at least 12 people who have done so on here and if you skim through, as I have done, some of the criticism comes from surprising directions. It is not only WUMs.

If my opinion is "divisive and frankly uncalled for" what words would you use to describe stating fans who continue to attend games are supporting Venkys, killing the club etc? For me suggesting I'm supporting Venkys is just about as divisive as it's possible to be.

I guess the cop out comment is also for me. BRAG grew out of individuals organising protests so why is it a cop out to ask when those who call for action will begin to take some?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Neal I wasn't thinking of you or anyone in particular with my post. I try hard, possibly unsuccesfully, to avoid making comments directed at an individual. Whether all of what you say above is correct or not I simply don't know. I agree it's likely very few would turn out to protest now.

My one problem though is the criticism across the messageboard of those who chose to attend. There are, at a rough count, 12 different posters who have done so in this thread. I was quite taken aback when I saw some of the names who made such comments. I'm simply tired of it and if we follow the only one in ten people will actually complain principle I imagine I'm not alone.

I'm expressing how I feel as a result of the criticism aimed at those, not me specifically, who chose to attend.

Couldn't agree with you more despite no longer attending matches myself. In the last couple of months the boycotters seem to have taken on an aggressive element towards those who disagree with them. Every time someone champions an alternative view on here, Chaddy, Alexanders, whoever, they are somewhat set upon. I'm pretty surprised nobody's been called a scab yet.

Its very counter-productive and undignified. At best it will drive the 2 groups further apart, at worst Rovers will permanently lose even more fans over it. Or maybe this board will just permanently lose more members.

[Neal]

Neal I wasn't thinking of you or anyone in particular with my post. I try hard, possibly unsuccesfully, to avoid making comments directed at an individual. Whether all of what you say above is correct or not I simply don't know. I agree it's likely very few would turn out to protest now.

My one problem though is the criticism across the messageboard of those who chose to attend. There are, at a rough count, 12 different posters who have done so in this thread. I was quite taken aback when I saw some of the names who made such comments. I'm simply tired of it and if we follow the only one in ten people will actually complain principle I imagine I'm not alone.

I'm expressing how I feel as a result of the criticism aimed at those, not me specifically, who chose to attend.

Yeah i can understand how on the other side of the fence it would be frustrating to have the finger pointed at them, it should only be pointed one way. At times like these people are scratching round looking to blame someone because Venkys aren't present to direct anger towards, with emotions running high i'd take any comments with a pinch of salt.

[punerover]

To play the devil's advocate, I think the boycotters are trying to force the non boycotters to boycott hoping that the boycott will somehow magically make the Venky's boycott the club.

[DE.]

And whilst the fans continue squabbling with each other, Venky's go about their business undisturbed...

[Neal]

To play the devil's advocate, I think the boycotters are trying to force the non boycotters to boycott hoping that the boycott will somehow magically make the Venky's boycott the club.

They already have boycotted the club.

[punerover]

They already have boycotted the club.

Sorry should have worded it properly, i wanted it to rhyme Leave the club I meant

[AggyBlue]

Couldn't agree with you more despite no longer attending matches myself. In the last couple of months the boycotters seem to have taken on an aggressive element towards those who disagree with them. Every time someone champions an alternative view on here, Chaddy, Alexanders, whoever, they are somewhat set upon. I'm pretty surprised nobody's been called a scab yet.

Its very counter-productive and undignified. At best it will drive the 2 groups further apart, at worst Rovers will permanently lose even more fans over it. Or maybe this board will just permanently lose more members.

It's known as 'Withdrawal Symptoms'. Exasperated now the season has started

[Gav]

GAV I have not asserted non-attenders are targetting those who do go - I don't think this is the case. I'm saying I'm tired of reading criticism of those, which includes myself, who chose to go to Ewood. There are at least 12 people who have done so on here and if you skim through, as I have done, some of the criticism comes from surprising directions. It is not only WUMs.

If my opinion is "divisive and frankly uncalled for" what words would you use to describe stating fans who continue to attend games are supporting Venkys, killing the club etc? For me suggesting I'm supporting Venkys is just about as divisive as it's possible to be.

I guess the cop out comment is also for me. BRAG grew out of individuals organising protests so why is it a cop out to ask when those who call for action will begin to take some?

As I said I've been on here far to much of late and cannot agree that posters are being criticised and accused of killing the club by going to games.

It's absolutely ludicrous to make such a suggestion anyway and was probably said in the heat of the moment I'd wager, so I think your comments are uncalled for and just fan the flames, but hey ho.

I seem to recall you telling me that the trust didn't have a mandate to organise protests, I agreed with you, even though the Trusts chair was all over the media calling Venkys out not to long ago? Then we hear the Trust and other 'invited supporters' are entering into dialogue with Cheston and the club over communication? So it seems the trust will get involved regardless of remit when is suits?

You're asking individuals calling for action to take some, when we have supports groups that should be doing that job in my opinion, instead of sitting back and coping out. If a supporters group went public and started a campaign to get rid of Venkys I'd join today and be a part of that from day 1.

But we just slump from one disaster to another, It's a sad sad state of affairs.

[47er]

GAV I have not asserted non-attenders are targetting those who do go - I don't think this is the case. I'm saying I'm tired of reading criticism of those, which includes myself, who chose to go to Ewood. There are at least 12 people who have done so on here and if you skim through, as I have done, some of the criticism comes from surprising directions. It is not only WUMs.

If my opinion is "divisive and frankly uncalled for" what words would you use to describe stating fans who continue to attend games are supporting Venkys, killing the club etc? For me suggesting I'm supporting Venkys is just about as divisive as it's possible to be.

I guess the cop out comment is also for me. BRAG grew out of individuals organising protests so why is it a cop out to ask when those who call for action will begin to take some?

You seem to be over-egging the pudding to me. You go because you want to, why should you worry so much what anyone else thinks about it?

Pointless to go through life endlessly justifying yourself.

[onlyonejackwalker]

It is all getting a bit silly now.

Many, like me, continued going under Kean, Appleton, Berg, Black, Bowyer etc. I had my own personal reasons for going for much of that time, in much the same way many fans will have at this time.

I genuinely wouldn't dream of telling anyone not to go. In fact I hope the team wins 5-0 each and every week and they full value for any monies and time spent.

My stance, having protested at the outset, acting like a total plank chanting @#/? out down Bolton Road, is that I am not lowering myself to that again when the vast majority of our fans were happy to celebrate the sacking of Sam and the arrival of the Scottish keaner as an exciting new dawn.

Go, don't go. But don't criticise either group. The miniscule monies being parted with to attend are irrelevant in the wider contect of 100 million debt, as are the season ticket monies lost with me not attending this season.

[Dunnfc]

I for one believe in tandem with Andy's post that our factored supporter base is not insurmountable to being reunited again. It is however going to remain largely like this until these owners go for good. The concept whether football is a religion to some is probably appropriate because despite what ever happens to this club it will still have a core group attending. In any other relationship other than a club and fans if something isn't working you walk away from it in life but football is clearly very different to some. When i think of earlier this summer and Cheston's connotations i.e where he implied the fans were to blame than personally i'd find that difficult to attend and swallow.

My comments concerning killing the club perhaps were not the most appropriate form of wording however there is a proportionate amount of fans who i believe no matter what happens at this club they would still not take any form of action and would continue to always look at the glass half full. On the other hand some good points have been raised about families spending time together watching the team play but when you break it down it's the enjoyment of the company your with and not the actual product on show which is heavily tainted and is not accurately reflective of watching Rovers and gaining any enjoyment itself. This is where i think Owen Coyle came out with PR statements like building a team to be proud of and enjoy watching etc links.

In contrast to the clubs mentioned further up namely Leeds and Blackpool then you have supporter bases roughly similar in style to our own of good honest hard working sets of fans however the differences are far from negligible when you read there forums like BHS and MOT where they take a more concentrated approach of going against there club and organising demonstrations and revolting against the clubs owners whom in the case of the Oystons are up there with Venkys for honors. They literally are more united in this approach and rightly or wrongly it is something that we should be able to draw conclusions from and possibly adopt in some way to gain more exposure to our situation something which i feel has been very much under reported in various media streams. We had the #venkysout campaign which i felt was an excellent idea, however the momentum within our fan base struggles to maintain itself.

In answer to Paul's post then no boycotting fan has ever really implied any form of questioning to any level of self-perceived intelligence/motivation of supporters still attending, more so people will always have opinions whether you agree or not with those. The questioning in relation to the boycotting was something what appears rather disingenuous where i think Neal has alluded to where the was a thread on a joint demonstration with Blackpool fans, the #out campaign etc. I think we can all conclude that better organisation and more particular planning needs to be done for future demonstrations i.e picking a tv game for maximum media exposure however the boycotters and out campaigners will require the level of backing from those attending.

Lastly by withdrawing both vocal and financial support of which merchandise, ST's and anything match day related comes from then hopefully this continues as various forms of boycotting and confirms to you Paul what other avenues are happening other than just a perception over a lack of visual demonstrations.

[Neal]

In answer to Paul's post then no boycotting fan has ever really implied any form of questioning to any level of self-perceived intelligence/motivation of supporters still attending, more so people will always have opinions whether you agree or not with those. The questioning in relation to the boycotting was something what appears rather disingenuous where i think Neal has alluded to where the was a thread on a joint demonstration with Blackpool fans, the #out campaign etc. I think we can all conclude that better organisation and more particular planning needs to be done for future demonstrations i.e picking a tv game for maximum media exposure however the boycotters and out campaigners will require the level of backing from those attending.

Like I say, i'm firmly behind taking almost any action against Venkys. Whilst the organisation and planning for the Blackpool protest could have been better, being there to witness how it went gave me an insight to how it might have gone had it been a cup or league game with the way the fans reacted to it etc... There were roughly 1000 Rovers fans, very few of them were interested in the small protest taking place, it sparked zero interest. A protest of just Rovers fans I don't think is going to work anymore but a joint protest with clubs like Leeds under #justiceforfans would be a whole lot more affective I think and would create a lot more media attention. As a lot of people keep saying, the media is not interested in our little world being ruined so if fans come together from different clubs I think it would generate a lot more interest.

[punerover]

Like I say, i'm firmly behind taking almost any action against Venkys. Whilst the organisation and planning for the Blackpool protest could have been better, being there to witness how it went gave me an insight to how it might have gone had it been a cup or league game with the way the fans reacted to it etc... There were roughly 1000 Rovers fans, very few of them were interested in the small protest taking place, it sparked zero interest. A protest of just Rovers fans I don't think is going to work anymore but a joint protest with clubs like Leeds under #justiceforfans would be a whole lot more affective I think and would create a lot more media attention.

I was discussing this point with a friend on boycott and he made some interesting points. Neal lets say you did protests and even managed to get some media attention. They ran a story on how fans are unhappy with the way Venkys are running the club. etc etc. Then what? Do you genuinely believe someone will do a story on how club owners should be kicked out of their existing ownership? Lets assume you even managed to get that. I huge story on how some clubs are run poorly and what needs to be done about that. What next? You think there will be a new legislation regarding club ownership? You think there will be a referendum on who should own clubs and who should not? What next? Lets say you got someone who gave the ultimatum to Venky's to quit. They should be morally obliged to do so. But should they be legally? As long as the answer to that is NO, you cant get them out until and unless they want to get out themselves. Simple. So from a perspective of a person who is looking in from the outside, I think you are not getting enough support because

a) Some people question the point of having a boycott <------ as mentioned above

Some people do not want to boycott. <------ We have to accept this as a fact.

For a movement to work, a critical mass has to get affected. Else it just does not work. Some people do not like to hear the second option but as you learnt from your experience, I think that is really the case.

[tomphil]

People staying away in droves again should send a clear message if nothing else. It might not be enough to force an immediate action but the red warning signs should be flashing loud and clear that this continued downgrade will only end one way if it carries on.

Eventually the shcitpile will end up on Venkys door step whether they like it or not because as Kamy pointed out the need for almost total funding by the owners isn't far away.

[punerover]

People staying away in droves again should send a clear message if nothing else. It might not be enough to force an immediate action but the red warning signs should be flashing loud and clear that this continued downgrade will only end one way if it carries on.

Eventually the shcitpile will end up on Venkys door step whether they like it or not because as Kamy pointed out the need for almost total funding by the owners isn't far away.

1. U will never be able to convince everyone to stay away

2. Have you considered the option of Rovers being in Non league where it does not require total/any funding of the owners?

[Neal]

I was discussing this point with a friend on boycott and he made some interesting points. Neal lets say you did protests and even managed to get some media attention. They ran a story on how fans are unhappy with the way Venkys are running the club. etc etc. Then what? Do you genuinely believe someone will do a story on how club owners should be kicked out of their existing ownership? Lets assume you even managed to get that. I huge story on how some clubs are run poorly and what needs to be done about that. What next? You think there will be a new legislation regarding club ownership? You think there will be a referendum on who should own clubs and who should not? What next? Lets say you got someone who gave the ultimatum to Venky's to quit. They should be morally obliged to do so. But should they be legally? As long as the answer to that is NO, you cant get them out until and unless they want to get out themselves. Simple. So from a perspective of a person who is looking in from the outside, I think you are not getting enough support because

a) Some people question the point of having a boycott <------ as mentioned above

Some people do not want to boycott. <------ We have to accept this as a fact.

For a movement to work, a critical mass has to get affected. Else it just does not work. Some people do not like to hear the second option but as you learnt from your experience, I think that is really the case.

Asking me but how could I give the answers when I don't work at the F.A.? All we can do is stand up for ourselves out of principle. We as fans could only bring this issue to light. In my eyes the best case scenario would following sustained protests together it would result in the F.A. to making it mandatory within a certain amount of years that EVERY club has fan representation at board room level, someone voted for by the fans that has the interests of the club at heart that can fight their corner and speak directly to the fans.

[punerover]

Asking me but how could I give the answers when I don't work at the F.A.? All we can do is stand up for ourselves out of principle. We as fans could only bring this issue to light. In my eyes the best case scenario would following sustained protests together it would result in the F.A. to making it mandatory within a certain amount of years that EVERY club has fan representation at board room level, someone voted for by the fans that has the interests of the club at heart that can fight their corner and speak directly to the fans.

No, I am not asking you what FA will do or wont do. I am saying everybody might not and does not want fan representation at the board room level.

[tomphil]

1. U will never be able to convince everyone to stay away

2. Have you considered the option of Rovers being in Non league where it does not require total/any funding of the owners?

I'm talking about the crowds now being down and the fact people are staying away not an organised boycott as such. The downward trend will continue and that alone should have them concerned.

Yes believe me I've thought about them continuing to own a downgraded version in the lower leagues but beyond a certain point it's completely pointless for them. There'd be no publicity, no big player sales and no fans at all really.

Also for the next few years at least the contracted outgoings, running costs and owings will still way outstrip the income as others have said. Once the next few of the better players are sold it would be down to the owners to meet those obligations themselves or it would be taken out of their hands. Continuing the downgrade is still going to cost them millions that's why there is no sense to it.

It's like buying a Rolls Royce then selling off bits of it to meet the HP payments. Your still left with a shell and an engine and to run it still massive costs fuel, tax and insurance. Might as well give it back, sell it and take the hit or have it repossessed. If you run it till it stops you still have to pay someone to take it away.

Plain stupid.

[Neal]

No, I am not asking you what FA will do or wont do. I am saying everybody might not and does not want fan representation at the board room level.

Well then it would be surely voted for? Can you honestly tell me that fans wouldn't vote to have their interests represented at board room level? I highly doubt it.

[punerover]

Well then it would be surely voted for? Can you honestly tell me that fans wouldn't vote to have their interests represented at board room level? I highly doubt it.

Then there would and should have been more standing with you when you protested outside the grounds

[Neal]

Then there would and should have been more standing with you when you protested outside the grounds

I'm sorry I'm not really sure where this debate is going. All I'm saying is that if fans united protested and managed to push for the option of fan representation at board room level then fans would take it. Liverpool, Arsenal, United al certainly would.

[Claytons Left Boot]

People staying away in droves again should send a clear message if nothing else.

I think this is the only way that Rovers fans can, and will, protest. That is, by simply staying away.

The initial protests in the Kean era were embarrassing in terms of numbers as a percentage of our fan base. The Rovers Trust and Brag do not now seem fit for purpose as either action groups or bodies prepared to do something on behalf of the fans. The lack of any protest by Rovers fans at the recent Blackpool away game, as evidenced by tomphil, again appears to have been embarrassing. If, indeed, Rovers fans managed to form some sort of alliance with say Leeds fans and agreed to protest at any Rovers home game, we would probably be faced with only a handful of Rovers fans turning out and being heavily outnumbered by several hundred Leeds fans. We give the impression to fans of other clubs that we do not give a damn. Fiddling while Rome burns and all that.

The only way, therefore, is to simply stay away, relegations, further crowd reductions and Venky's finally throwing in the towel as any status they once had evaporates fully and they offload us.

Rovers' rise through the ranks, culminating in being champions and still having many successful seasons thereafter, was superb. No one can take that away. Those years, however, softened us. Years of corporate customers, the prawn sandwich brigade, subsidised away travel at times, cheap (extremely cheap) season tickets, a brand new, all seater stadium with mod cons. All handed to us on a plate. All this must have softened us. Blackburn used to be a solid, hard working, gritty northern town with no airs and graces. A place where if anyone took the p!ss, they would suffer the consequences. For the life of me I can't see how Venky's antics have been met with such passiveness from our support.

It's pointless having a thread on boycotts, taking action and so on. Nothing will happen. That has been proved over the last six years. The only thing to be done is to stay away. Shouldn't be the case. Very sad.