[Archived] No To Coyle

[Stuart]

If you want to believe that you can have an influence on things that's up to you Stuart. I've made my decision, as have my friends, and we shall continue watching the Rovers - home and away - as we have always done. A number of friends went to Austria at the weekend and enjoyed the trip. At the end of the day it's down to personal choice. I assume you have decided not to go to games which is fair enough, that's your choice.

No, I too have decided to carry on watching football (= watching Rovers) despite it being one big @#/? take. In the end the decision was mainly for family reasons but I feel it gives me a right to complain and an opportunity to be vocal in those complaints if necessary.

It's a pretty bleak view to think that you have no influence and, by extension, no control, Parson. It's because of that defeatist attitude that only three hundred or so people turned out to protest when we still had a potential positive future for the club, back when Kean was here. If we had seen 10,000 people protest then the club would have had no choice but to listen, instead were easy to dismiss. It is said that Venkys were hoodwinked by Kean and co - if you do not believe that Venkys are part of a conspiracy then this must be true. If we could have got him out sooner then they (and we) may not have been punished as severely.

Doing nothing, as the majority chose, is why we are in the position we now find ourselves. You've always had an influence; sadly, even if only consequencially, you used that influence to endorse what Kean was doing. It was so so easy for people to join a pre-match march from the Town Hall and make a statement. The police even helped to make sure it was safe. But you had other things to be doing - presumably mainly showing that you were 'the better fan'.

Why would you not consider boycotting the Blackpool friendly - and ask your friends to do the same? Even just to prove a point?

[Gav]

We'd be in real trouble if Venkys weren't paying the bills, don't forget that

I really don't think that the owners are going to be influenced by a few thousand fans not coming into the stadium.

Oh yes they will, they're all about saving face, if the fans don't turn up it hurts them Parson.

Its not financial, its about saving face with their friends and business partners.

But I would never ask anyone not to attend, thats a personal choice.

[1arC]

We'd be in real trouble if Venkys weren't paying the bills, don't forget that

Yep we have to remember that. Give me and you £350 Million over the next 5 years and we can also pay the bills.

[Gav]

Yep we have to remember that. Give me and you £350 Million over the next 5 years and we can also pay the bills.

and get us back into the Premiership.

[47er]

I have said repeatedly that if a match were scheduled for Ewood and no Rovers fans turned up, then Venkys would be gone as quick as they could arrange it. They would be a laughing stock worldwide.

[Amo]

I have said repeatedly that if a match were scheduled for Ewood and no overs fans turned up, then Venkys would be gone as quick as they could arrange it. They would be a laughing stock worldwide.

Even if it didn't work, wouldn't it at least be worth trying?

[Stuart]

But I would never ask anyone not to attend, thats a personal choice.

People need to be asked though, Gav. To be at all meaningful, a boycott needs to be organised and coordinated. Without Glen, Mark, Paul K, and others, forming a group, we may never have seen Shebby ride into town, the catalyst that ultimately started the rot of Kean.

A half-hearted 'people should choose individually whether to boycott' is not much better than 'there's no point in boycotting' - it's self-defeating.

However, this now needs to be led from within. A hardcore with respect from other hardcore, or a FF position. Imagine the outcry if Birdy or someone of similar standing said "it breaks my heart but I will no longer attend until Venkys go". Now that would capture peoples' attention.

[chaddyrovers]

Why would you not consider boycotting the Blackpool friendly - and ask your friends to do the same? Even just to prove a point?

Prove a point to who Stuart? Its not going to even have an impact on Venkys is it? They dont attend games over here or have any business interest in this country apart from Rovers.

I can understand people getting annoyed and angry about the lack of interest in the club they shown in 6 years and their abality to learn from their mistakes. But would they ever admit to this?

And yes I am attending the Blackpool friendly with family and friends. Kids are looking forward to it now. Going to have a day out there and have fish and chips for tea after the game

[arbitro]

I am not going because I care about the club. Maybe to some that sounds daft but I genuinely believe that another few years under this lot there might well not be a Blackburn Rovers in its current guise. Not going is what I really think will hurt them but it has to be the vast majority who are like minded. A near empty Ewood would almost certainly attract lots of negative media attention both here and in India and then maybe they would be embarrassed into some kind of action. I really understand that it would be an extremely difficult decision for a lot of Rovers fans and I really have no issue with anybody who has a different opinion and wants to go. I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think anybody could whatever they decide to do.

The only crumb of comfort I take by not going is that my £500 or so that I spend on a season ticket and merchandise will probably have to come out of their pockets.

[Gav]

People need to be asked though, Gav. To be at all meaningful, a boycott needs to be organised and coordinated. Without Glen, Mark, Paul K, and others, forming a group, we may never have seen Shebby ride into town, the catalyst that ultimately started the rot of Kean.

A half-hearted 'people should choose individually whether to boycott' is not much better than 'there's no point in boycotting' - it's self-defeating.

However, this now needs to be led from within. A hardcore with respect from other hardcore, or a FF position. Imagine the outcry if Birdy or someone of similar standing said "it breaks my heart but I will no longer attend until Venkys go". Now that would capture peoples' attention.

Just going round in circles Stuart I'm afraid.

I asked Mark directly if BRAG had any intention of balloting its members on whether the group should be looking at taking some form of action when Lambert walked, he said NO, so end of story unless BRAG members force the issue.

The FF and Trust are not part of this process and have no place in organising protests, its down to BRAG, the group born out of protests.

But quite frankly the fans don't have the heart for a fight, so I now lose no sleep over it, I'm not going to Ewood until they leave, thats the only protest I don't have to rely on anyone else to achieve.

[chaddyrovers]

Sorry to hear that Gav

[Parsonblue]

No, I too have decided to carry on watching football (= watching Rovers) despite it being one big @#/? take. In the end the decision was mainly for family reasons but I feel it gives me a right to complain and an opportunity to be vocal in those complaints if necessary.

It's a pretty bleak view to think that you have no influence and, by extension, no control, Parson. It's because of that defeatist attitude that only three hundred or so people turned out to protest when we still had a potential positive future for the club, back when Kean was here. If we had seen 10,000 people protest then the club would have had no choice but to listen, instead were easy to dismiss. It is said that Venkys were hoodwinked by Kean and co - if you do not believe that Venkys are part of a conspiracy then this must be true. If we could have got him out sooner then they (and we) may not have been punished as severely.

Doing nothing, as the majority chose, is why we are in the position we now find ourselves. You've always had an influence; sadly, even if only consequencially, you used that influence to endorse what Kean was doing. It was so so easy for people to join a pre-match march from the Town Hall and make a statement. The police even helped to make sure it was safe. But you had other things to be doing - presumably mainly showing that you were 'the better fan'.

Why would you not consider boycotting the Blackpool friendly - and ask your friends to do the same? Even just to prove a point?

So basically Stuart what you are saying is that everyone must think like you and act like you or they are part of the problem. Fair enough, if that's how you view things, I guess I won't be seeing you at Blackpool.

[Al]

It's a sorry state of affairs when you and Debs are not going to matches Gav and I really hope that you reconsider. It's been in your blood for too long to quit now.

[Stuart]

Just going round in circles Stuart I'm afraid.

I asked Mark directly if BRAG had any intention of balloting its members on whether the group should be looking at taking some form of action when Lambert walked, he said NO, so end of story unless BRAG members force the issue.

The FF and Trust are not part of this process and have no place in organising protests, its down to BRAG, the group born out of protests.

But quite frankly the fans don't have the heart for a fight, so I now lose no sleep over it, I'm not going to Ewood until they leave.

Woah, woah, woah. Only the Action Group should organise protests? Bunkum, what a cop out! Talk about hanging out problems around some bodies neck FFS.

I don't want to put words in Mark's mouth but you'd have to say that they had their go and nobody backed them (or the future of our club) when fans were being well and truly taken the @#/? out of, do you think anything has changed on that score?

So the FF get a free pass? Why's that? The only way anything changes here Gav is if those most supporting the regime stop doing. The only way - at least until Venkys put the club into admin.

Can't believe you've posted that to be quite honest, Gav.

[Stuart]

So basically Stuart what you are saying is that everyone must think like you and act like you or they are part of the problem. Fair enough, if that's how you view things, I guess I won't be seeing you at Blackpool.

Answer the question please. Why would you not even attempt to do something different and boycott the Blackpool game along with your friends?

It a really important question because it strikes at the heart of why the hardcore continue to say that 'nothing can change' but aren't even prepared to try to.

Unless you say otherwise, I can only infer from your posts that you are comfortable to continue supporting what Venkys are doing to our club and will do nothing, such as boycott a meaningless friendly, to change it.

[No Nay Never]

Answer the question please. Why would you not even attempt to do something different and boycott the Blackpool game along with your friends?

It a really important question because it strikes at the heart of why the hardcore continue to say that 'nothing can change' but aren't even prepared to try to.

Unless you say otherwise, I can only infer from your posts that you are comfortable to continue supporting what Venkys are doing to our club and will do nothing, such as boycott a meaningless friendly, to change it.

First paragraph of this post sums up this messageboard at the moment. It's completely upto the individual, if they want to boycott then do so, if not then attend as much or as little as you like, there really is no right or wrong answer. People attend games for all sorts of different reasons some out of a sense of loyalty, some as a social event and some to avoid afternoons in asda.

[Gav]

It's a sorry state of affairs when you and Debs are not going to matches Gav and I really hope that you reconsider. It's been in your blood for too long to quit now.

The popular view is that I don't go anymore because I live in Midlands, but frankly living away from the area makes the heart grow fonder Al, its even tougher when you're not surrounded by your fellow fans on a daily basis, I love going, but we've had enough, and like most of last season it'll be radio and iplayer.

Not sure about away games yet, we'll see.

[Gav]

Woah, woah, woah. Only the Action Group should organise protests? Bunkum, what a cop out! Talk about hanging out problems around some bodies neck FFS.

I don't want to put words in Mark's mouth but you'd have to say that they had their go and nobody backed them (or the future of our club) when fans were being well and truly taken the @#/? out of, do you think anything has changed on that score?

So the FF get a free pass? Why's that? The only way anything changes here Gav is if those most supporting the regime stop doing. The only way - at least until Venkys put the club into admin.

Can't believe you've posted that to be quite honest, Gav.

You clearly don't understand what the remit of each group is Stuart, once you understand that you'll get what I posted.

Fans forum discuss non footballing matters with the club, or did last time I asked, beer, pies, ticket prices, season ticket dates, new shirts, etc.

BRAG born to protest against Kean, a protest group, for protesting, now does some great work for charity and offers away travel.

Its as simple as that.

[Mike E]

You clearly don't understand what the remit of each group is Stuart, once you understand that you'll get what I posted.

Fans forum discuss non footballing matters with the club, or did last time I asked, beer, pies, ticket prices, season ticket dates, new shirts, etc.

BRAG born to protest against Kean, a protest group, for protesting, now does some great work for charity and offers away travel.

Its as simple as that.

Plus Rovers Trust: Charity initiatives, attempts to protect club assets, and there in the background should we go into admin.

[Stuart]

First paragraph of this post sums up this messageboard at the moment. It's completely upto the individual, if they want to boycott then do so, if not then attend as much or as little as you like, there really is no right or wrong answer. People attend games for all sorts of different reasons some out of a sense of loyalty, some as a social event and some to avoid afternoons in asda.

This post sums up a section of the messageboard also: if you don't like the way the debate is going try to kill the debate by saying 'everyone's right, let's all just get along'.

We have got to the point where some say 'there is no point in boycotting because it won't make a difference and not enough people will boycott'.

For the sake of debate I'd like to know the reasoning that the hardcore do not want to challenge this, and why they believe they have no influence. I'll assert that this is because they just don't want the hassle and would rather ignore these problems than confront them - let alone try to change them.

Such a simple way to show the club their displeasure at the way the club is being run, such as boycotting a friendly, yet they steadfastly refuse to do so. This means that they are comfortable with the way that the club is being run. That makes them part of the problem - EVEN IF that's their individual choice to be.

It's unpalatable for some, and confrontational for others, but that's the way of it. If we collectively cannot do the bare minimum to register our displeasure then we have no voice at all, and the in-fighting will continue.

Yet some find it more comforting to blame the Action Group for not wiping everyone's noses for them. Even though, as soon as the Action Group stand up, they will be told to sit down and stopping rocking the boat, because the 'true fans' (as the club likes to badge them) would rather enjoy the ride in peace, even if the boat is already sinking.

You clearly don't understand what the remit of each group is Stuart, once you understand that you'll get what I posted.

Fans forum discuss non footballing matters with the club, or did last time I asked, beer, pies, ticket prices, season ticket dates, new shirts, etc.

BRAG born to protest against Kean, a protest group, for protesting, now does some great work for charity and offers away travel.

Its as simple as that.

"Remit of each group".

Apart from being a ridiculous notion, what a sad indictment of our fanbase. We are all Rovers fans. Why should the group that have the ear of the club only care about cold pies when there are much more pressing matters?

A new mantra for the FF: "Sod the pies, confront the lies".

[No Nay Never]

This post sums up a section of the messageboard also: if you don't like the way the debate is going try to kill the debate by saying 'everyone's right, let's all just get along'.

We have got to the point where some say 'there is no point in boycotting because it won't make a difference and not enough people will boycott'.

For the sake of debate I'd like to know the reasoning that the hardcore do not want to challenge this, and why they believe they have no influence. I'll assert that this is because they just don't want the hassle and would rather ignore these problems than confront them - let alone try to change them.

Such a simple way to show the club their displeasure at the way the club is being run, such as boycotting a friendly, yet they steadfastly refuse to do so. This means that they are comfortable with the way that the club is being run. That makes them part of the problem - EVEN IF that's their individual choice to be.

It's unpalatable for some, and confrontational for others, but that's the way of it. If we collectively cannot do the bare minimum to register our displeasure then we have no voice at all, and the in-fighting will continue.

Yet some find it more comforting to blame the Action Group for not wiping everyone's noses for them. Even though, as soon as the Action Group stand up, they will be told to sit down and stopping rocking the boat, because the 'true fans' (as the club likes to badge them) would rather enjoy the ride in peace, even if the boat is already sinking.

Debates fine Stuart, im pretty sure the people or person you were questioning regarding the Blackpool game (ParsonBlue i think) have given reasons they will still be attending many times over.

[Gav]

It's unpalatable for some, and confrontational for others, but that's the way of it. If we collectively cannot do the bare minimum to register our displeasure then we have no voice at all, and the in-fighting will continue.

Yet some find it more comforting to blame the Action Group for not wiping everyone's noses for them. Even though, as soon as the Action Group stand up, they will be told to sit down and stopping rocking the boat, because the 'true fans' (as the club likes to badge them) would rather enjoy the ride in peace, even if the boat is already sinking.

"Remit of each group".

Apart from being a ridiculous notion, what a sad indictment of our fanbase. We are all Rovers fans. Why should the group that have the ear of the club only care about cold pies when there are much more pressing matters?

A new mantra for the FF: "Sod the pies, confront the lies".

Its an absolutely ridiculous suggestion to ask a group thats mission is to discuss non footballing matters, and has been for almost 20yrs, to start organising protests, especially when we have BRAG, a protest group that organise protests, running away travel and charity events.

People joined BRAG to protest and I'm not having a pop at them, just making the point.

[Stuart]

Its an absolutely ridiculous suggestion to ask a group thats mission is to discuss non footballing matters, and has been for almost 20yrs, to start organising protests, especially when we have BRAG, a protest group that organise protests, running away travel and charity events.

People joined BRAG to protest and I'm not having a pop at them, just making the point.

It is not ridiculous to ask the ONLY club endorsed fan group, who have an audience with the club, to be the first group of fans to react to a situation like ours.

It's like asking people to check in their brains along with their coats and hats on the way in.

"Right gentleman. As you know, no questions about the state of the club, its finances or its long term viability. Ok, what would you like to talk about?"

"Pies are too cold" "Riverside roof continues to leak"

"We'll arrange for the appropriate people to provide a response in time for next month's meeting"

What a pointless meeting format under the circumstances. No wonder there is a pretender that all is well. Apart from the pies of course.

[Amo]

Not a lot you can do about a small-time mentality.

[Gav]

It is not ridiculous to ask the ONLY club endorsed fan group, who have an audience with the club, to be the first group of fans to react to a situation like ours.

It's like asking people to check in their brains along with their coats and hats on the way in.

"Right gentleman. As you know, no questions about the state of the club, its finances or its long term viability. Ok, what would you like to talk about?"

"Pies are too cold" "Riverside roof continues to leak"

"We'll arrange for the appropriate people to provide a response in time for next month's meeting"

What a pointless meeting format under the circumstances. No wonder there is a pretender that all is well. Apart from the pies of course.

Whats the protest group BRAGS part in all of this?