[Archived] Joint Blackpool Protests. Venkys Out, Oyston Out, Fans United.

[arbitro]

With the benefit of the exact science that is hindsight I would have liked to keep Bowyer despite being vociferous about what I believed were his shortcomings. When he was sacked and Lambert appointed it raised the hopes for the majority of fans that we were going to go all out for promotion this season and spend a decent amount of money in trying to achieve this. We have now regressed to such a degree by appointing Coyle that in most fans honest opinions we will do well to finish outside the bottom three, we will have the lowest number is season tickets sold for the best part of thirty years and our playing assets are have been massively depleted. At least Bowyer has a track record of doing what the Indians and Cheston now appear to want i.e. buy cheap and sell on. And Bowyer is an honest man. Coyle has no track record to speak of with making money on sales and is a liar.

The Indians have dug themselves another big hole in the last few weeks and this time I don't believe there is a way out for them.

[blueboy3333]

You are a very dogmatic poster. Try to remember what you have posted above is merely your opinion. I believe we would have been relegated had Bowyer continued, I believe our best chance of promotion would have been if Lambert had been backed.

I can't prove it and I won't be posting it four or five times.

In the end it's all irrelevant anyway. We will never prosper under Venkys and I wish all fans could see that.

It may appear dogmatic but that is not my intention. I just try to back up my opinions with reason. Nowt wrong with that on an MB surely?

If someone respond's to my posts or ask questions i normally do them the courtesy of a reply. That's not the same as repeating something 'four or five times'.

Like you say though it is irrelevant in the context of prospering under Venky's. We never will. I've yet to meet a fan who thinks otherwise. Some just think we'll plummet to the depths if they do one and leave us with all the debt.

[adsfortheblues]

Rekik and Stewart were signed by Michael Appleton on loans not Bowyer. Bowyer never signed them in the summer permanent.

Bowyer did a good job but should have done alot better in his second season.

34 then

[RoverCanada]

34 then

So, is that a lot? How much did other Championship clubs bring in over the same time period? How much did they have outgoing? How many were permanent signings vs short-term loans? Free transfers vs. fees? Youth signings? I'm actually curious.

(Numbers without context are a pet peeve of mine...)

[chaddyrovers]

So, is that a lot? How much did other Championship clubs bring in over the same time period? How much did they have outgoing? How many were permanent signings vs short-term loans? Free transfers vs. fees? Youth signings? I'm actually curious.

(Numbers without context are a pet peeve of mine...)

No its pretty standard in championship

[den]

So, is that a lot? How much did other Championship clubs bring in over the same time period?

Strewth. Yes it's a lot. It's three complete teams. It's irrelevant what other clubs do.

[blueboy3333]

Strewth. Yes it's a lot. It's three complete teams. It's irrelevant what other clubs do.

It's really not. The high turnover of players is a reflection of the nature of the Championship (and lower) where clubs are financially unable to commit to longer than 1 and 2 year contracts. Clubs also rely on quite a few loans every year.

The vast majority of Bowyer's deals were made up of the above. Same at most clubs outside the Prem

[BlooBoy]

So, is that a lot? How much did other Championship clubs bring in over the same time period? How much did they have outgoing? How many were permanent signings vs short-term loans? Free transfers vs. fees? Youth signings? I'm actually curious.

(Numbers without context are a pet peeve of mine...)

The bottom line is Bowyer brought all those players in his own belief that they would strengthen the team.They didnt so he failed .

[Dunnfc]

I think this is the most depressing period of recent years and as such is reflected by the mood on this board.

So who signed the original NDA's surely they are up for expiry now?

Not just the strange weapons who still sing the Venkys hymns but where are the array of people from our past, they are just as much to blame as Venkys for this dissent for not voicing what was happening at the time.

One of the biggest unreported (truthfully) travesties of football to date.

[Gav]

I believe Bowyer was given a mandate by the owners to try as many players on free transfers as he liked, in the hope he'd find the next Gestede or Cairney. That for me is the reason why he went through so many players.

Gary Bowyer did a good job here in difficult circumstances, the majority on here wanted him gone, I understand why, but he was a man of integrity, hardly ever moaned and certainly didn't tell fibs.

[mustard]

It's no surprise to me Bowyer was acknowledged by our fans at the friendly. I'd have chanted for him too if I was there, and I was very critical of him as a manager during his time here. A good chap who did his best, but ultimately wasn't good enough. I appreciate GB and what he did, but let's not rewrite history. Whilst he did a decent job and brought in some good players, he blew our last real shot at promotion and had he remained in charge, I think we could have seriously flirted with relegation, if not succumbed. I don't necessarily blame him for this as the the Venky's were the ones who kept him in charge too long before tightening the purse strings, but the wheels started to fall off and he needed sacking. Bowyer enjoyed relative freedom in the transfer market (certainly in comparison to PL) and we can only speculate on what a more talented manager would have done, but after our great defensive efforts last season under Lambert, I'd have loved to see what he'd have achieved with the squad GB had a couple years back. I think we'd have almost certainly made play-offs, if not the automatic spots.

Anyways, thanks again for all your efforts Gary, but you've found your level now.

[Gav]

It's no surprise to me Bowyer was acknowledged by our fans at the friendly. I'd have chanted for him too if I was there, and I was very critical of him as a manager during his time here. A good chap who did his best, but ultimately wasn't good enough. I appreciate GB and what he did, but let's not rewrite history. Whilst he did a decent job and brought in some good players, he blew our last real shot at promotion and had he remained in charge, I think we could have seriously flirted with relegation, if not succumbed. I don't necessarily blame him for this as the the Venky's were the ones who kept him in charge too long before tightening the purse strings, but the wheels started to fall off and he needed sacking. Bowyer enjoyed relative freedom in the transfer market (certainly in comparison to PL) and we can only speculate on what a more talented manager would have done, but after our great defensive efforts last season under Lambert, I'd have loved to see what he'd have achieved with the squad GB had a couple years back. I think we'd have almost certainly made play-offs, if not the automatic spots.

Anyways, thanks again for all your efforts Gary, but you've found your level now.

Its a very real possibility that we'll be playing at that level next season mustard.

[AggyBlue]

Its a very real possibility that we'll be playing at that level next season mustard.

Yeah but we'll have the best academy in that division

[mustard]

Its a very real possibility that we'll be playing at that level next season mustard.

Don't worry, Gav. Failing we get some kind of double relegation next season, we still have at least two to go before we can drop to League Two!

If you meant we could be playing at their level next season (if they go up of course), then yes I worry it's a real possibility!

[RoverCanada]

The bottom line is Bowyer brought all those players in his own belief that they would strengthen the team.They didnt so he failed .

I'm not really arguing whether Bowyer was a success or not (I mean, ultimately, he wasn't). But, I see this 34-36 number thrown around a lot as if it alone serves as a rebuttal to arguments in favour of his transfer successes. It's really a meaningless number when it counts signing Gestede and, for example, loaning in Tunnicliffe, who was then recalled, as the exact same.

Strewth. Yes it's a lot. It's three complete teams. It's irrelevant what other clubs do.

So it was 34 permanent signings? With no outgoings or injuries in consideration?

Every club in the Championship (check that, in professional football) churns through players at a pretty damn high rate. Hence, you need to look into the context before pointing at the plain number and declaring it too high.

This really isn't a complicated or controversial point I'm trying to make...

[adsfortheblues]

No its pretty standard in championship

An average of 13.6 (round up to nearest decimal, 14) per season (based on his 2.5 seasons as our permanent manger) is standard?

Yours an others arguments in respect of how good they were or how much money he was given are fair enough pal, as that's opinion, well partly. However saying 14 players incoming a season is standard is pretty rubbish, if you want to be a successful team. Well then again we are never going to be that under this lot so I suppose it's all irrelevant.

My initial point though wasn't in respect of the numbers, it was in respect of how much money will have gone into those signings. Decent amount. Obviously nothing compared to your Newcastles mind, Kean and Shebby @#/? that down the toilet.

It's funny, we are all bickering, but really it's the owners, bowyer did what he could, venkys should have employed a proper manager 3 years ago and not given the job to Bowyer.

[den]

I'm not really arguing whether Bowyer was a success or not (I mean, ultimately, he wasn't). But, I see this 34-36 number thrown around a lot as if it alone serves as a rebuttal to arguments in favour of his transfer successes. It's really a meaningless number when it counts signing Gestede and, for example, loaning in Tunnicliffe, who was then recalled, as the exact same.

So it was 34 permanent signings? With no outgoings or injuries in consideration?

Every club in the Championship (check that, in professional football) churns through players at a pretty damn high rate. Hence, you need to look into the context before pointing at the plain number and declaring it too high.

This really isn't a complicated or controversial point I'm trying to make...

The discussion wasn't about whether 34 signings is too high, it was about whether he was hard done by in the owners backing to bring in players - which some of his supporters believe he was. 34 players, is 34 players, some loaned, some free transfers, some carried transfer fees as well as signing on fees, agents fees etc. That, on top of not having to sell any player that he wanted to keep apart from Dann, that's tremendous backing in the Championship. Bet Coyle wished he had that.

[BlooBoy]

The discussion wasn't about whether 34 signings is too high, it was about whether he was hard done by in the owners backing to bring in players - which some of his supporters believe he was. 34 players, is 34 players, some loaned, some free transfers, some carried transfer fees as well as signing on fees, agents fees etc. That, on top of not having to sell any player that he wanted to keep apart from Dann, that's tremendous backing in the Championship. Bet Coyle wished he had that.

Spot on Den ...he was allowed to bring in so many ..yet failed to push us up to higher places .

[tomphil]

Problem with GB was he had no real plan with the incomings and had what's been described as a scatter gun approach to recruitment at times. Despite doing a decent job rebuilding the squad he didn't really reshape and he did contribute to the probs we have now by not getting in any right back or back up strikers yet over loading us with midfield or number 10 types then never playing like that until we'd no other options at the start of last season and it didn't work.

All those keepers as well, he managed the first team like it was a development squad and that held back a lot of his other good work. Maybe under remit to do that or maybe because he knew no other way and that was his comfort zone. If he's learned anything we'll see at Blackpool and he could turn into a good boss for them. Oystons will want a conveyor belt of freebies filling out their squad and be happy just doing enough I would think.

[Iceman]

so were there any pics of this joint protest?

[Neal]

so were there any pics of this joint protest?

Think the Tangerine knights have poated some on twitter, there was a reporter there and someone press taking photos... Whether it gets any press i have no idea but given the small numbers I doubt it.

[JHRover]

Well Coyle has already brought in 5 in the short time he's been at Rovers, and I dearly hope he brings in at least another 5 otherwise we'll be in serious trouble next season. We've only got 16 senior players at the club, and that number needs to be in the 20s to survive a 46 game Championship season. That would be at least 10 signings in his first transfer window. Then if we lose Duffy and Marshall that would mean we would need to bring in another couple to replace them. So quite possibly 12 new signings before the end of his first transfer window. Many of those will be season long loan gambles.

Then in January it is highly likely that Coyle will want to bring in another one or two to fill any gaps or improve in areas we've struggled in over the first half of the season.

The point being that by the end of January I'll be surprised and disappointed if Coyle hasn't brought at least 10-12 new players into the club. And if he hasn't, given the number of outgoings, we are going to be in real trouble.

Is it Coyle's fault that he's had to bring in so many? No. He inherited a situation where 10+ first team players weren't good enough and were out of contract and has been forced to quickly go into the transfer market. Will all his signings be successful? Almost certainly not. Same situation with Bowyer. He inherited a situation where he had to bring in high numbers of players quickly and replace departures. Some of his signings were outstanding successes, some were ok, some were poor. His cash purchases have nearly all increased in value and have made or will make this club/these owners a lot of money, in contrast to his predecessor. Even today we're living off the fruits of Bowyer's work. Marshall and Duffy will be off before long, that will be another £4-5 million for the coffers, from two players Bowyer signed for about £1.4 million combined a couple of years ago. If they were under contract long term (thanks to inept running of the club they aren't) then they could probably command £10 million between them.

[Gav]

The discussion wasn't about whether 34 signings is too high, it was about whether he was hard done by in the owners backing to bring in players - which some of his supporters believe he was. 34 players, is 34 players, some loaned, some free transfers, some carried transfer fees as well as signing on fees, agents fees etc. That, on top of not having to sell any player that he wanted to keep apart from Dann, that's tremendous backing in the Championship. Bet Coyle wished he had that.

You say its not about numbers he brought in then go on about how 34 players is 34 players

I think Blackpool brought in 50 players in 2015 alone, doesn't mean Oyston supported his manager, quite the opposite actually.

Bowyer did well here, had to sell his best players (Gestede, Ollson and Cairney) and mainly shopped in the bargain basement due to FFP, to claim he had 'tremendous backing' is quite simply bunkum

[AllRoverAsia]

Good photo of Rovers fans at Post: 23

Goals at Post: 30

Bowyer interview at Post 31. Weirdly called ''Blackburn Reacton: Gary Bowyer'' Its from the Tangerine TV. Ok I suppose it means the game v Rovers but reads odd.

http://www.backhenrystreet.co.uk/thread-30212.html#.V5XwHhKDcVA

[Neal]

Good photo of Rovers fans at Post: 23

Goals at Post: 30

Bowyer interview at Post 31. Weirdly called ''Blackburn Reacton: Gary Bowyer'' Its from the Tangerine TV. Ok I suppose it means the game v Rovers but reads odd.

http://www.backhenrystreet.co.uk/thread-30212.html#.V5XwHhKDcVA

I am stood next to the 'T' of the 'Oyston Out' banner of the 3rd photo down just above some guys head who's wearing glasses.