[Archived] Summer Transfer/discussion Thread

[MCMC1875]

Think people need remember no bid accept by us.

If he injured hes injured

Quality post!

[Gav]

I like how as soon as one of our players are linked with move away their is a band wagon of people who blame Venky's of looking to strip all the assets of the club, and deem it as the end of the world.

You would have thought that this window would have brought some clarity that you don't have to spend millions to make good signing so long as you have the right strategy in place. So far with the addition of Stokes, Graham, Feeney on a Free Transfer has shown their is plenty on offer in the market of today. If Hanley leaves sure I will be gutted as I think he has really developed well this last year. However if we get 6 or 7M for him will I complain? Hell No! Great deal, sign Steven Taylor, and use the 2m to find some other good affordable signings out there.

Will say fair play to Mr.Coyle not a fan of his yet but he has made a good start.

I'm all for different opinions and alternative views but my god this is so far off the scale it must be a windup.

[patrickvalery]

To be fair (and yes that's an awful expression in the circumstances) venkys possibly could argue their investment has been ploughed back in to the academy (I'm thinking the category A status and the funding required to meet that) and this is their long term aim in getting the club back on an evenish keel. There certainly seems to be more noise about our youth teams in recent history. The trouble is I'm not sure they're doing this properly either. You can't just invest in facilities and expect to produce the next generation of superstars. Despite category A status we never recruit young talent from abroad and rarely poach other clubs good young talent. It won't just fall into our laps.

[Gav]

To be fair (and yes that's an awful expression in the circumstances) venkys possibly could argue their investment has been ploughed back in to the academy (I'm thinking the category A status and the funding required to meet that) and this is their long term aim in getting the club back on an evenish keel. There certainly seems to be more noise about our youth teams in recent history. The trouble is I'm not sure they're doing this properly either. You can't just invest in facilities and expect to produce the next generation of superstars. Despite category A status we never recruit young talent from abroad and rarely poach other clubs good young talent. It won't just fall into our laps.

You've actually made a point and dispelled it in the same post PV

[mustard]

To be fair (and yes that's an awful expression in the circumstances) venkys possibly could argue their investment has been ploughed back in to the academy (I'm thinking the category A status and the funding required to meet that) and this is their long term aim in getting the club back on an evenish keel. There certainly seems to be more noise about our youth teams in recent history. The trouble is I'm not sure they're doing this properly either. You can't just invest in facilities and expect to produce the next generation of superstars. Despite category A status we never recruit young talent from abroad and rarely poach other clubs good young talent. It won't just fall into our laps.

It's a nice idea in principal but doesn't work beyond the realms of Football Manager. I think they've been sold this idea from someone and they'll be in for a nasty surprise when it fails. This isn't Barca and La Masia. We might bring through some decent youths here and there but expecting more than a couple to make it to Champ level each year is hopeful at best.

When I read about more academy players signing pro terms this year, and them being praised as a great bunch, I took it with a pinch of salt. Some were praising Venky's, but the likelihood that these players will actually make it at this level is slim. I hope they do, of course, but I saw this larger intake as less of a positive than some. Are these players actually good enough or is it just another means of downgrading/cost-cutting?

In other news, our former academy prospect Jack O'Connell has moved from Brentford to Sheff Utd (as of a few days ago).

[roverstdt]

Steven Taylor is a decent player regardless of his injury history. My preference out of all the defenders out there would be someone like Adrian Mariappa who i rate quite highly.

With regards to asset stripping I agree with patrickvalery that with the money put into the Academy it would seem like an odd decision to Asset Strip will investing in an academy. I think like with all things to do with Venky's it is often miss managed and hence money is wasted on a regular basis. Hanley hasn't gone anywhere yet, and I hope it remains that way, but we have shown time and time and time again there is life after a star player leaving and Hanley will be no different. Lets wait and see what happens rather than believing on conspiracy theories.

[tomphil]

I suppose if they start fast tracking a few and giving them games it increases their value even if they don't cut it at Champ level. Selling players which cost nowt in fees to league 1 or 2 clubs for a few hundred grand may well appeal to those running it.

[Speedie Dived]

Steven Taylor is a decent player regardless of his injury history. My preference out of all the defenders out there would be someone like Adrian Mariappa who i rate quite highly.

With regards to asset stripping I agree with patrickvalery that with the money put into the Academy it would seem like an odd decision to Asset Strip will investing in an academy. I think like with all things to do with Venky's it is often miss managed and hence money is wasted on a regular basis. Hanley hasn't gone anywhere yet, and I hope it remains that way, but we have shown time and time and time again there is life after a star player leaving and Hanley will be no different. Lets wait and see what happens rather than believing on conspiracy theories.

It's nothing to do with conspiracy theories. We have NEVER sold a player and replaced with a better player in their tenure here.

It's why we are a lower championship team.

[47er]

I suppose if they start fast tracking a few and giving them games it increases their value even if they don't cut it at Champ level. Selling players which cost nowt in fees to league 1 or 2 clubs for a few hundred grand may well appeal to those running it.

So if we are to be a never-ending sausge factory, churning out players for everybody else, what is the left to believe in? What's the point from a supporter's point of view?

PB might argue that this is how it's always been, but it isn't.

[had.e.nuff]

He's also a massive crock who's only made more than 14 appearances once (25apps) in the last 6 seasons. He's now 30 and will only get more frequently injured as time goes on.

I know it wasn't your idea but as far as ideas go, its dreadful.

I Agree he has only averaged 19 games a season for is whole career

[47er]

I like how as soon as one of our players are linked with move away their is a band wagon of people who blame Venky's of looking to strip all the assets of the club, and deem it as the end of the world.

You would have thought that this window would have brought some clarity that you don't have to spend millions to make good signing so long as you have the right strategy in place. So far with the addition of Stokes, Graham, Feeney on a Free Transfer has shown their is plenty on offer in the market of today. If Hanley leaves sure I will be gutted as I think he has really developed well this last year. However if we get 6 or 7M for him will I complain? Hell No! Great deal, sign Steven Taylor, and use the 2m to find some other good affordable signings out there.

Will say fair play to Mr.Coyle not a fan of his yet but he has made a good start.

Thanks for that! Another one!

[davulsukur]

Steven Taylor is a decent player regardless of his injury history. My preference out of all the defenders out there would be someone like Adrian Mariappa who i rate quite highly.

He could be the best defender in the league but if he only plays 10 games, whats the point? You then have to replace him for the majority of the campaign with someone else, presumably a youth team player, which puts you right back to square one.

[tomphil]

So if we are to be a never-ending sausge factory, churning out players for everybody else, what is the left to believe in? What's the point from a supporter's point of view?

PB might argue that this is how it's always been, but it isn't.

Nothing because we just exist then and it's the least amount of fuss and expense for the V's and handy for the agents. Yes like you say we'll be told other clubs do it and we've always been a selling club and the rest of it nut it's under a different agenda now.

Thing is we didn't sell good players to clubs directly in competition with or us below us so it's completely different these days. Everyone has a price but it doesn't matter where they are shunted off to and we are looking to sell every window and have been since Vs pitched up.

[Dreams of 1995]

To be fair (and yes that's an awful expression in the circumstances) venkys possibly could argue their investment has been ploughed back in to the academy (I'm thinking the category A status and the funding required to meet that) and this is their long term aim in getting the club back on an evenish keel. There certainly seems to be more noise about our youth teams in recent history. The trouble is I'm not sure they're doing this properly either. You can't just invest in facilities and expect to produce the next generation of superstars. Despite category A status we never recruit young talent from abroad and rarely poach other clubs good young talent. It won't just fall into our laps.

This is true. They do seem to be throwing money at the academy. I think maybe the added noise around our youth is partly due to our lack of quality in the senior side, so maybe we're all being thrown a bone in saying our academy is as good as it has ever been. However it is true to say we do have some quality in there, with Scott Wharton being one. He is by no means ready yet, he shown his immaturity as a player during a recent loss to Chelsea youth if I remember correctly. I've been thinking about what I would possibly do in Coyle's shoes and due to the lack of CBs on offer at the moment, at least with the quality of Hanley, I'd be thinking maybe push Lenihan further back and invest in a CM. There's a lot more of them about and they are a lot cheaper than centre halves.

Back to the academy though, we have recently purchased a player from Utd called Rankin-Costello. I have heard from numerous people involved in the youth of different clubs he was a highly coveted player and is on for good things with the right development. Let's hope it pays off.

It will be interesting to see if Mahoney gets more of a run out with Coyle being known to like wingers. He's tricky, can beat a man and put in a decent ball. A natural out and out winger. With his emergence we may even see Marshall given his favoured number 10 role. We definitely need to start looking at our academy and producing some players, if only for resale, to justify the Venky's putting money into it otherwise they may think it's not worth it and stop the money altogether. You know how these crooks thinks.

We've also got Nyambe that can play RB and CB. He's a good young player. There are a few beginning to come through.

[roverstdt]

It's nothing to do with conspiracy theories. We have NEVER sold a player and replaced with a better player in their tenure here.

It's why we are a lower championship team.

Really? I would argue against that.

Just have to look at the Season 13/14

Out:

Pedersen

McLaren

Givet

Edinho

Fabio Nunes

In:

Rudy Gestede (You are right McClaren is better)

Tom Cairney (Give me Nunes anyday!)

Craig Conway (Better Addiition than Pedersen at the time who was 33)

[OJRovers]

Selling the club's main asset, captain and player of the year?

Shows how far we've come that it hardly registers anymore. Downwards we go.

[47er]

This is true. They do seem to be throwing money at the academy. I think maybe the added noise around our youth is partly due to our lack of quality in the senior side, so maybe we're all being thrown a bone in saying our academy is as good as it has ever been. However it is true to say we do have some quality in there, with Scott Wharton being one. He is by no means ready yet, he shown his immaturity as a player during a recent loss to Chelsea youth if I remember correctly. I've been thinking about what I would possibly do in Coyle's shoes and due to the lack of CBs on offer at the moment, at least with the quality of Hanley, I'd be thinking maybe push Lenihan further back and invest in a CM. There's a lot more of them about and they are a lot cheaper than centre halves.

Back to the academy though, we have recently purchased a player from Utd called Rankin-Costello. I have heard from numerous people involved in the youth of different clubs he was a highly coveted player and is on for good things with the right development. Let's hope it pays off.

It will be interesting to see if Mahoney gets more of a run out with Coyle being known to like wingers. He's tricky, can beat a man and put in a decent ball. A natural out and out winger. With his emergence we may even see Marshall given his favoured number 10 role. We definitely need to start looking at our academy and producing some players, if only for resale, to justify the Venky's putting money into it otherwise they may think it's not worth it and stop the money altogether. You know how these crooks thinks.

We've also got Nyambe that can play RB and CB. He's a good young player. There are a few beginning to come through.

Stockholm Syndrome.

[tomphil]

Marshall favoured no 10 ? Where has that come from ? Played there last year early on and in pre season and was next to useless. He also didn't look comfortable nor happy. And no it wasn't all Rhodes fault either.

I'm surprised you didn't pick up on this.....

[Speedie Dived]

Really? I would argue against that.

Just have to look at the Season 13/14

Out:

Pedersen

McLaren

Givet

Edinho

Fabio Nunes

In:

Rudy Gestede (You are right McClaren is better)

Tom Cairney (Give me Nunes anyday!)

Craig Conway (Better Addiition than Pedersen at the time who was 33)

Give me strength

[Dreams of 1995]

Marshall favoured no 10 ? Where has that come from ? Played there last year early on and in pre season and was next to useless. He also didn't look comfortable nor happy. And no it wasn't all Rhodes fault either.

I'm surprised you didn't pick up on this.....

Marshall played there for Leicester quite regularly. I have always assumed he enjoys being there and out wide right. Nowadays the number 10 drifts either wing allowing him far more freedom. It's just something I assumed. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. Coyle played him there in the friendly in Austria if I'm right. I also guessed with the addition of Feeney, a right winger, and the emergence of Mahoney, Marshall would be better suited to fitting in there. Coyle plays a 4-2-3-1 formation and so far, at least in my head, I see it as:

Steele

Lowe/Hanley(Horror) Duffy Hanley Hendrie

Lenihan/Bryne Evans

Feeney Marshall Conway/Stokes

Graham

Again I may be wrong. I didn't get the chance to see him play there last year. However I would just think his style of play and his ability to hit a long range shot would suit that role.

[roverstdt]

Give me strength

I knew it was the best answer you would be able to give, regardless as to how you look it you convince yourself of facts and details that don't exist you sound like Rafa Benitez and his list of Fact speech

[tomphil]

Well we had hopes of him there last season and it didn't work out but it was under Bowyer so maybe Coyle can get it working. On the young players whilst I'd like to see a few get a chance they are by no means shoe ins to take up positions yet.

It's likely they are going to get in just to save money when maybe they should be cutting their teeth on loans lower in the leagues at this stage. I like Mahoney but he's struggled to make an impression at U21 recently and Lenihen as a CB is also a no no from me.

He's proved he can't be a no flairs adequate midfielder in a poor team but often struggled when moved to CB.

[Dreams of 1995]

Stockholm Syndrome.

What from that would you consider 'Stockholm Syndrome'? I'm just curious as, with most things now, I don't quite think you understand the meaning of it. There's no love shown there for Venky's whatsoever. No compassion either. Labelled them, rightly so too, as crooks and have spoke nothing but fact and opinion. They HAVE put money into the academy; we HAVE seen players emerging; we HAVE got Costello. There was nothing in that post to point towards what you are accusing me of, again.

Stop going around these boards acting like judge, jury and executioner just because people contribute more than your monotonous anti-anything that isn't a direct slang on the Venky's.

[arbitro]

Steven Taylor is a decent player regardless of his injury history. My preference out of all the defenders out there would be someone like Adrian Mariappa who i rate quite highly.

With regards to asset stripping I agree with patrickvalery that with the money put into the Academy it would seem like an odd decision to Asset Strip will investing in an academy. I think like with all things to do with Venky's it is often miss managed and hence money is wasted on a regular basis. Hanley hasn't gone anywhere yet, and I hope it remains that way, but we have shown time and time and time again there is life after a star player leaving and Hanley will be no different. Lets wait and see what happens rather than believing on conspiracy theories.

As a matter of interest how much have they put into the Academy?

What conspiracy theory is there in the speculation about Hanley leaving? As you say we have seen plenty of our better players leaving down the years. Until the idiots arrived though the club have done their utmost to replace them.

[Dreams of 1995]

Well we had hopes of him there last season and it didn't work out but it was under Bowyer so maybe Coyle can get it working. On the young players whilst I'd like to see a few get a chance they are by no means shoe ins to take up positions yet.

It's likely they are going to get in just to save money when maybe they should be cutting their teeth on loans lower in the leagues at this stage. I like Mahoney but he's struggled to make an impression at U21 recently and Lenihen as a CB is also a no no from me.

He's proved he can't be a no flairs adequate midfielder in a poor team but often struggled when moved to CB.

True. I also think Graham is a player more adapted to having a number 10 behind him. Whereas Rhodes wanted the ball put into an area in the box he could score from, Graham is more adept at holding the ball, flicking it on and giving other players the space in which to roam. But, as said, we can't blame Marshall's bad performances there entirely on Rhodes.

I have genuinely been wracking my brain on a replacement for Hanley since the news came out he may be off and I honestly can't find a solution. That said I'm not a manager and don't have the contacts to let me know who's available. There seems to be no real quick fix short of patching a defence together and Coyle is renowned for leaking goals even with a solid back four. Let alone a back 4 without a capable right back, established left back and the heart and captain of it sold close to the start of the season.

Needs to be over soon so we can either move on from it with Grant Hanley still here or get a replacement in and let him have the entire pre-season with Duffy to gel.