[Archived] Summer Transfer/discussion Thread

[JBiz]

I can't help but suspect that rather than the club 'reluctantly' letting them go if they want to leave, that the club are actively attempting to get them sold as more assets to cash in on, and yet they are going to try and con us by leaving it a month or so, in the meantime allowing Coyle to bring in a large number of players, before pushing them through the exit door. I don't mind losing our best players, from time to time, but the policy appears to be deception and a deliberate plan of selling our star player every transfer window.

Sorry again JHR but the reason we have sold and will need to sell players is solely at the door of the 100m+ noose hanging round the neck of the club.

You talk a lot of sense but this deception is just the reality of business. The club spends more than it makes. We'd both agree on who is to blame but I'm slowly starting to lose my mind at the suggested conspiracy theory's. How would another club acting late in the window be an attempt to con us?

[JAL]

Anyone looking at the hoplessly weak non contributing Jason Lowe or does he fit right in with empty head Coyle's brand of loser football ?

[JHRover]

Sorry again JHR but the reason we have sold and will need to sell players is solely at the door of the 100m+ noose hanging round the neck of the club.

You talk a lot of sense but this deception is just the reality of business. The club spends more than it makes. We'd both agree on who is to blame but I'm slowly starting to lose my mind at the suggested conspiracy theory's. How would another club acting late in the window be an attempt to con us?

They conned us with the Cairney sale by pushing him through the exit door to Fulham against his wishes and against Bowyer's wishes and still to this day haven't explained what went on there. I'm not comfortable with the transfer 'strategy' of the club these last 12-18 months and I'm astonished that you really have faith that the business we've witnessed recently is normal or innocent.

Yes the club spends more than it makes. So does every club in the Championship. Do you really think the likes of Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday etc. make a £20 million profit so that every summer they can go out and spend millions on other clubs players? No. They lose money every year, to a similar level we do. They might pay for it differently, avoiding racking up a huge debt, but they still spend beyond their means. The difference is they have owners who want their clubs to do well and bankroll their clubs using their own money.

As I've already said, if a Premier League club came in at the 11th hour and signed Hanley then I'd accept it. I wouldn't be happy but its part of being a Championship club. But I don't think that's what will happen. I think the club is actively attempting to offload one or more of Hanley and Marshall, just like they offloaded Cairney last summer and Rhodes in January. A pattern is emerging here. They know full well that selling Hanley to a rival club now would cause uproar and impact on season ticket sales, so they will leave it a few weeks, but the 'plan' from the club is to get rid. I'm sure of it.

[Iceman]

If Hanley does go, as i said Blackett or Paddy McNair would be decent loan signings from United.

[J*B]

They conned us with the Cairney sale by pushing him through the exit door to Fulham against his wishes and against Bowyer's wishes and still to this day haven't explained what went on there. I'm not comfortable with the transfer 'strategy' of the club these last 12-18 months and I'm astonished that you really have faith that the business we've witnessed recently is normal or innocent.

Yes the club spends more than it makes. So does every club in the Championship. Do you really think the likes of Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday etc. make a £20 million profit so that every summer they can go out and spend millions on other clubs players? No. They lose money every year, to a similar level we do. They might pay for it differently, avoiding racking up a huge debt, but they still spend beyond their means. The difference is they have owners who want their clubs to do well and bankroll their clubs using their own money.

As I've already said, if a Premier League club came in at the 11th hour and signed Hanley then I'd accept it. I wouldn't be happy but its part of being a Championship club. But I don't think that's what will happen. I think the club is actively attempting to offload one or more of Hanley and Marshall, just like they offloaded Cairney last summer and Rhodes in January. A pattern is emerging here. They know full well that selling Hanley to a rival club now would cause uproar and impact on season ticket sales, so they will leave it a few weeks, but the 'plan' from the club is to get rid. I'm sure of it.

You've only just realised this..?

[ABBEY]

Sorry again JHR but the reason we have sold and will need to sell players is solely at the door of the 100m+ noose hanging round the neck of the club.

You talk a lot of sense but this deception is just the reality of business. The club spends more than it makes. We'd both agree on who is to blame but I'm slowly starting to lose my mind at the suggested conspiracy theory's. How would another club acting late in the window be an attempt to con us?

mr opposite strikes again.

They conned us with the Cairney sale by pushing him through the exit door to Fulham against his wishes and against Bowyer's wishes and still to this day haven't explained what went on there. I'm not comfortable with the transfer 'strategy' of the club these last 12-18 months and I'm astonished that you really have faith that the business we've witnessed recently is normal or innocent.

Yes the club spends more than it makes. So does every club in the Championship. Do you really think the likes of Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday etc. make a £20 million profit so that every summer they can go out and spend millions on other clubs players? No. They lose money every year, to a similar level we do. They might pay for it differently, avoiding racking up a huge debt, but they still spend beyond their means. The difference is they have owners who want their clubs to do well and bankroll their clubs using their own money.

As I've already said, if a Premier League club came in at the 11th hour and signed Hanley then I'd accept it. I wouldn't be happy but its part of being a Championship club. But I don't think that's what will happen. I think the club is actively attempting to offload one or more of Hanley and Marshall, just like they offloaded Cairney last summer and Rhodes in January. A pattern is emerging here. They know full well that selling Hanley to a rival club now would cause uproar and impact on season ticket sales, so they will leave it a few weeks, but the 'plan' from the club is to get rid. I'm sure of it.

FROM THE START

[Don Said]

Anyone looking at the hoplessly weak non contributing Jason Lowe or does he fit right in with empty head Coyle's brand of loser football ?

Would keep him as a back up rb/cm. Prefer him to Henley and Akpan.

Put in a quality ball for a Graham header on the last day of the season if I remember correctly, he's an okay second option at our level, 100% not first 11 though.

[47er]

But isn't that the transfer system in microcosm?

Surely we've just done the same to a couple of clubs regarding Stokes?

Still don't see what the point was but thanks for trying to help me out 47er....

Slooooooowly-----he WANTS to play for us but we have to match what anyone else offers him.

That's where it breaks down. Venkys = cheap.

[den]

They conned us with the Cairney sale by pushing him through the exit door to Fulham against his wishes and against Bowyer's wishes and still to this day haven't explained what went on there. I'm not comfortable with the transfer 'strategy' of the club these last 12-18 months and I'm astonished that you really have faith that the business we've witnessed recently is normal or innocent.

It's not recent JH, they've been pushing people out of the club from the day they arrived. From CEO's, to board members, to chairmen, to managers (starting with Allardyce), to groundsmen, to players - beginning with the likes of Neslen, Salgado, Emerton etc.

That's the way it's been and it appears that that is how they'll continue. The only thing we as fans can do, is consider our position amongst all this.

[JBiz]

They conned us with the Cairney sale by pushing him through the exit door to Fulham against his wishes and against Bowyer's wishes and still to this day haven't explained what went on there. I'm not comfortable with the transfer 'strategy' of the club these last 12-18 months and I'm astonished that you really have faith that the business we've witnessed recently is normal or innocent.

Yes the club spends more than it makes. So does every club in the Championship. Do you really think the likes of Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday etc. make a £20 million profit so that every summer they can go out and spend millions on other clubs players? No. They lose money every year, to a similar level we do. They might pay for it differently, avoiding racking up a huge debt, but they still spend beyond their means. The difference is they have owners who want their clubs to do well and bankroll their clubs using their own money.

As I've already said, if a Premier League club came in at the 11th hour and signed Hanley then I'd accept it. I wouldn't be happy but its part of being a Championship club. But I don't think that's what will happen. I think the club is actively attempting to offload one or more of Hanley and Marshall, just like they offloaded Cairney last summer and Rhodes in January. A pattern is emerging here. They know full well that selling Hanley to a rival club now would cause uproar and impact on season ticket sales, so they will leave it a few weeks, but the 'plan' from the club is to get rid. I'm sure of it.

Normal or innocent? Astonished? I said it was quite explainable by the reality of the scenario. The clubs you mentioned all spend more because of investment and that is ambitious, something our owners have lacked.

It's not a conspiracy to annoy the fans in my humble opinion. I find that paranoid to the extreme. I've explained before that it seems logical that we'd need to address the books in ways, hence why JR went in January too. I also believe the owners may have had another famous subtle "changes of heart" between hiring PL and seeing us no nearer to promotion, since they genuinely are clueless as well as unambitious and probably believed some advisor on PL = immediate PL.

Does that mean they are fiddling the operation or just don't have a clue why or how to run us properly? I know what I believe.

Financially, we are stricken JHR, it's clear as day for me. How on earth wages, orders, etc are still being paid on time is beyond me. The big difference between us and Forest, Wednesday, Derby, Boro is not just one thing, but they all had big crowds - something which would enable us to probably keep the likes of Cairney.

I would suggest you take rumours on here with more of a pinch of salt, last night GH had been sold to Palalce, only to be on his way to Boro 5 minutes later. It's also only twelve months since terms had been agreed between Burnley and Rovers for GH and plenty on here had already offered to drive him down t'ut turf.

mr opposite strikes again.

Wow, I'm speechless. Didn't see the discussion ending like such, I bow to your almighty debate skills.

[eddy11d]

Unless it's because of injury, doesn't that just add more weight the argument that he's not very good?

I don't know, there's multiple possible explanations as to why he only played 5 games. You certainly can't say he was poor all year though can you?

[Lancaster Rover]

I don't know, there's multiple possible explanations as to why he only played 5 games. You certainly can't say he was poor all year though can you?

My mistake, I thought he'd been there longer but my point still stands. He should be going to a league 1 team and looking a cut above if he is to be a starter for us, surely? The game I saw him play and the opinion of others is that he looked average in league 1 and I feel we should be looking at better players than that. Spurr is a better option if that's the case.

[JHRover]

Normal or innocent? Astonished? I said it was quite explainable by the reality of the scenario. The clubs you mentioned all spend more because of investment and that is ambitious, something our owners have lacked.

It's not a conspiracy to annoy the fans in my humble opinion. I find that paranoid to the extreme. I've explained before that it seems logical that we'd need to address the books in ways, hence why JR went in January too. I also believe the owners may have had another famous subtle "changes of heart" between hiring PL and seeing us no nearer to promotion, since they genuinely are clueless as well as unambitious and probably believed some advisor on PL = immediate PL.

Does that mean they are fiddling the operation or just don't have a clue why or how to run us properly? I know what I believe.

Financially, we are stricken JHR, it's clear as day for me. How on earth wages, orders, etc are still being paid on time is beyond me. The big difference between us and Forest, Wednesday, Derby, Boro is not just one thing, but they all had big crowds - something which would enable us to probably keep the likes of Cairney.

I would suggest you take rumours on here with more of a pinch of salt, last night GH had been sold to Palalce, only to be on his way to Boro 5 minutes later. It's also only twelve months since terms had been agreed between Burnley and Rovers for GH and plenty on here had already offered to drive him down t'ut turf.

Wow, I'm speechless. Didn't see the discussion ending like such, I bow to your almighty debate skills.

I'm not suggesting they are conspiring to sell Hanley and Marshall just to wind up or annoy the fans, infact the opposite. They are conspiring to sell them, but are mindful of a fan backlash and instead will sell them only once Coyle has brought in a raft of free signings. Therefore when they do get sold they won't be accused of not backing the manager. It doesn't really matter where he ends up - Palace, Middlesbrough, Wednesday, Burnley. We're willing sellers and they will sell him when it suits them this summer, just like the last 4 good ones.

I don't want to get back onto the crowd debate but if you look back at Fulham last season or the season before for Middlesbrough their gates were mid-teens. So whilst their gate receipts might have been higher than ours they certainly weren't to a game changing level. Certainly not enough to enable the purchases of Rhodes, Cairney and McCormack and the wages they command. The difference is they have owners that put their money on the table, not that they are bigger or naturally richer clubs than we are. All clubs in this league are losing money hand over fist. This notion that we should aim for self-sufficiency is fantasy stuff. As is relying on cashing in on our best players every window. It can't work in this day and age. You either invest to succeed or fail. Blackpool and Charlton tried the self-sufficient route by selling their best players and look how they went.

[JAL]

Would keep him as a back up rb/cm. Prefer him to Henley and Akpan.

Put in a quality ball for a Graham header on the last day of the season if I remember correctly, he's an okay second option at our level, 100% not first 11 though.

Fair point think the lad needs lots and lots of corrective coaching to be more proactive rather than reactive during games.

An accurate forward pass can do more damage than a backward one for sure.

But then again he's got dummy Owen managing ffs !

[davulsukur]

I don't know, there's multiple possible explanations as to why he only played 5 games. You certainly can't say he was poor all year though can you?

Well no, because he only signed in January.

Could be many reasons but on the face of it, he wasn't able to dislodge a league 1 player from his position.

If he signs, he'll get a clean slate from me and i will judge him on his time in a blue and white shirt.

[LDRover]

Anyone looking at the hoplessly weak non contributing Jason Lowe or does he fit right in with empty head Coyle's brand of loser football ?

Not only that Jal but, with the captain nearing the exit door, he's odds on for the armband!!

Strewth.

[JBiz]

I'm not suggesting they are conspiring to sell Hanley and Marshall just to wind up or annoy the fans, infact the opposite.

Apologies but "but the policy appears to be deception and a deliberate plan of selling our star player every transfer window" came across to me as such.

I agree with much else of what you say but the expectation of investment is not a reality we can really have a say in. We've been a club in recent history who purchase other teams best players to win things, we've also been successful in signing cheaper unknowns and forging a quality team together.

Whilst I agree with you on the "need" to invest in any hope of an "easier" return, I can't ignore the ever growing financial cloud growing over the club. The long term solution has to be a new ownership and that's an easier scenario all round with less debt involved.

The last thing we need is more money going in the wrong direction. We shouldn't forget that the owners have invested that money and the disconnect between them and the club allowed wolves in the door.

[JHRover]

Apologies but "but the policy appears to be deception and a deliberate plan of selling our star player every transfer window" came across to me as such.

I agree with much else of what you say but the expectation of investment is not a reality we can really have a say in. We've been a club in recent history who purchase other teams best players to win things, we've also been successful in signing cheaper unknowns and forging a quality team together.

Whilst I agree with you on the "need" to invest in any hope of an "easier" return, I can't ignore the ever growing financial cloud growing over the club. The long term solution has to be a new ownership and that's an easier scenario all round with less debt involved.

The last thing we need is more money going in the wrong direction. We shouldn't forget that the owners have invested that money and the disconnect between them and the club allowed wolves in the door.

My belief is that they are banking on selling Hanley and Marshall, and it is this anticipated windfall that has allowed Coyle to sign Stokes and offer Graham a contract, among others. They are deliberately offloading our best player(s) every window. They had a brief cessation between relegation and last summer when they resisted offers for our best players, presumably as part of some misguided belief that retaining them would automatically translate into promotion. By last summer it had become clear, even to them, that it hadn't worked and they reverted back to Plan A of attempting to make the club sustainable by cashing in on our assets. Cairney, Gestede, Rhodes. Hanley and Marshall next. Its deliberate.

The deception part is that they are still attempting to dress it all up. They 'got away' with the Gestede and Cairney sales by convincing people that they were necessary sales to escape the FFP embargo. They 'got away' with the Rhodes sale by dressing it up as part of the Lambert revolution which was then derailed before it even started. They will now wait until Coyle has done the bulk of his deals for the summer before 'reluctantly' selling Hanley and make out as though it was unavoidable

All the while they claim, through Cheston, to still be investing and still be ambitious and still want promotion (Premier Pledge) and yet their actions suggest the complete opposite.

[BlueMonday]

Apologies but "but the policy appears to be deception and a deliberate plan of selling our star player every transfer window" came across to me as such.

I agree with much else of what you say but the expectation of investment is not a reality we can really have a say in. We've been a club in recent history who purchase other teams best players to win things, we've also been successful in signing cheaper unknowns and forging a quality team together.

Whilst I agree with you on the "need" to invest in any hope of an "easier" return, I can't ignore the ever growing financial cloud growing over the club. The long term solution has to be a new ownership and that's an easier scenario all round with less debt involved.

The last thing we need is more money going in the wrong direction. We shouldn't forget that the owners have invested that money Bank Of India Money and the disconnect between them and the club allowed wolves in the door.

Its less than clear, where the £100m has come from and more to the point who will be calling it in when the time comes.

But yes we have no say in it and are powerless.

[47er]

JBiz, what's with the academic arguments? They have sold all our star players one by one and,very early in the piece, in clutches.as well as getting rid of as good as a manager as we could get.

In fact, so keen (hate that word) were they to get rid of players who could really play, they paid them to leave in some cases,in other cases they were simply never picked, for weeks on end.

Will never forget Wigan where N'Zonzi was substituted AT HALF-TIME in a game we had to win to stand any chance of avoiding the drop.

Now they have sold all the expensive players, we are down to the ones who can attract any sort of reasonable fee----Hanley, Marshall, Evans, possibly Duffy. Soon the entire team will consist of youngsters, free transfers and loans and there will be no-one left to sell, unless, of course Coyle works miracles with them.

In that unlikely case, the circus might continue for a year or two more. I seriously expect us to be in League 2 within two or three years.

All this in 6 years! From a team regularly finishing in the top half of the Premiership, with gates of around 22000, to this.

In the face of what has happened, what is the point of arguing whether it's deliberate conspiracy or not? Who cares?

If it's not, and instead the owners are merely responsible for where we are by sheer stupidity, neglect or something else,what difference does it make?

[ABBEY]

#VENKYSOUT

[Speedie Dived]

The most heart breaking transfer of the summer for us could be Keane to Leicester. Talk of a £15 million bid gone in.

Pre- Venkys he would have been our player, signed up.

[AggyBlue]

Its less than clear, where the £100m has come from and more to the point who will be calling it in when the time comes.

Buy a business. Lose loads of dosh wasting money here there and everywhere. Pile the losses onto the business.

I wonder how many Indian 'Blackburn Rovers' parties are covered in the debt.

[JBiz]

My belief is that they are banking on selling Hanley and Marshall, and it is this anticipated windfall that has allowed Coyle to sign Stokes and offer Graham a contract, among others. They are deliberately offloading our best player(s) every window. They had a brief cessation between relegation and last summer when they resisted offers for our best players, presumably as part of some misguided belief that retaining them would automatically translate into promotion. By last summer it had become clear, even to them, that it hadn't worked and they reverted back to Plan A of attempting to make the club sustainable by cashing in on our assets. Cairney, Gestede, Rhodes. Hanley and Marshall next. Its deliberate.

The deception part is that they are still attempting to dress it all up. They 'got away' with the Gestede and Cairney sales by convincing people that they were necessary sales to escape the FFP embargo. They 'got away' with the Rhodes sale by dressing it up as part of the Lambert revolution which was then derailed before it even started. They will now wait until Coyle has done the bulk of his deals for the summer before 'reluctantly' selling Hanley and make out as though it was unavoidable

All the while they claim, through Cheston, to still be investing and still be ambitious and still want promotion (Premier Pledge) and yet their actions suggest the complete opposite.

Dress it up as what? Ambitious? When have any fans remarked how "ambitious" the owners are? The price pledge for promotion is a marketing tool, not some elaborate method of deception to con fans into thinking we are ready to invest!

Why shouldn't the club wipe it's face? I know you are convinced that investment is the only solution, in reality life goes on if it's not an option. If I had the choice of a. New owners run club cheap or b. Current owners invest, what do you think my answer would be?

This gap that you've spoken of between last summer and relegation, why didn't we sell players in this time? Or did we? Dann (who was captain) Marcus Olsson, Formica, Rochina etc. The bit that probably makes you forget those is the continuous "pay off" and managerial change stories. All the cost of inept owners.

Is this anger directed at them for being clueless? Or complicit? You've ignored plenty of what I've said to carry on the message of "fiddling" but at what point would you accept that "investment" is not a God given right, or an expectation of every club.

We are where we are because of mistakes made, mistakes that we will pay for for some time. I'm happy to discuss the mistakes with anyone, I'm as cinnical towards the owners idiocy as any fan.

The difference is I'm not in the camp of people who are convinced that decisions are made at Ewood wrongly on purpose. The decisions taken are a result of being "unambitious" or previous mistakes, not simply to con the fans!

Its less than clear, where the £100m has come from and more to the point who will be calling it in when the time comes.

But yes we have no say in it and are powerless.

The owners of the business. That's clear as day. Whether it's borrowed of mortgages, it's still against owner assets.

[K-Hod]

Joe lad- you're over-thinking and waffling again. They've ballsed this all up with their own stupidity, so they should be doing all they can to repay the fans by spending money to bring the best people to the club in order to achieve that. But they aren't, so we won't. Simple.