[Archived] Summer Transfer/discussion Thread

[JBiz]

JBiz, what's with the academic arguments?

Why reply then. If you ain't bothered don't bother. I happen to agree on most things but the conspiracy theories lately have been ridiculous.

Let's get this correct, I'm not defending Venkys at all they are to blame. The difference is, a number of posters are suggesting that decisions are being made to infuriate the fan base purposefully.

Joe lad- you're over-thinking and waffling again. They've ballsed this all up with their own stupidity, so they should be doing all they can to repay the fans by spending money to bring the best people to the club in order to achieve that. But they aren't, so we won't. Simple.

I'm not waffling pal, it's genuine. Expecting them to invest and at the same time wanting them out is just unrealistic.

[BlueMonday]

[quote name="Jbizzle" post="1663818" timestamp="1466515169

Let's get this correct, I'm not defending Venkys at all they are to blame. The difference is, a number of posters are suggesting that decisions are being made to infuriate the fan base purposefully

It may not be purposefully, but they have a very high success rate all the same.

And with such consistency of terrible decisions it's quite right people question their motives.

[JBiz]

It may not be purposefully, but they have a very high success rate all the same.

And with such consistency of terrible decisions it's quite right people question their motives.

Oh exactly, they've never been straight with the fan base. I'm just tired of reading about how they are "pocketing" fees or choosing X dingle managers just to wind up the fans..

[K-Hod]

Oh exactly, they've never been straight with the fan base. I'm just tired of reading about how they are "pocketing" fees or choosing X dingle managers just to wind up the fans..

Pocketing the fees they might not be, but it's completely disgraceful to use transfer fees to run the club. They fecked up, they should be correcting the mess they created themselves.

That WILL wind up the fans!

[JBiz]

Pocketing the fees they might not be, but it's completely disgraceful to use transfer fees to run the club. They fecked up, they should be correcting the mess they created themselves.

That WILL wind up the fans!

Football Business in "needs to be viable shocker".

What do we want? The end of their tenure or another 50m in bad investment on top?

If you'd read previous posts you would see umpteen mentions of how I'm as frustrated by anyone, but seeing how others are convinced that this is a continuous process to alienate fans is frustrating.

Reality bites. Yes, the reality is poor by ineptitude, a lack of ambition or even reason to own a football club, but it's reality.

Do we carry on convinced that this is basically their decision to frustrate us, or do we support what we have left? It's all linked to the big question - support or not support.

Don't call it waffle, I know where you live

[Iceman]

so nothing further happening on transfers, they tricked us? Oh well.. Ive had enough, Venkys out lol

[BlueMonday]

There's a lot of journeymen footballers on holiday just now so we'll need to patient, before being underwhelmed.

[neophox]

Hope of Adnan or Andreas on loan then...talented young midfelders and with great skills that wont be involved....

[Veevs]

Football Business in "needs to be viable shocker".

What do we want? The end of their tenure or another 50m in bad investment on top?

If you'd read previous posts you would see umpteen mentions of how I'm as frustrated by anyone, but seeing how others are convinced that this is a continuous process to alienate fans is frustrating.

Reality bites. Yes, the reality is poor by ineptitude, a lack of ambition or even reason to own a football club, but it's reality.

Do we carry on convinced that this is basically their decision to frustrate us, or do we support what we have left? It's all linked to the big question - support or not support.

Don't call it waffle, I know where you live

Personally dont think there is anything wrong with them in going for broke on Rovers and investing.. I do not for one minute believe we landed Lambert on the promise of no money, nor do I think he would of sold Rhodes.. etc..

At the end of the day the owners have shown utter contempt for the club and its fans.. we are a toy to be played with when bling boy is in the mood, if we go broke then who cares at this stage, it is really do or die.. they either gamble and go broke in style or drag it on for a few more years of suffering until shock horror we have nothing left to sell.

I am pretty sure we are now close to the end goal.. where the terms of the sale like the keeping the JW statue/Training facility land/Ground name/Stand name/rules to follow.. ends and when it does I am sure they can recoup enough cash to walk leaving us a third division club in a big ass stadium with no facilities or squad.

For me Venkys showed their colours within two months.. "We will stick with the manager" "We will keep the board of directors" etc etc.. Can you name me two clubs beyond the 2nd division without a board of directors (one man does not constitute a board).. or no full squad.. or no actual budget... or one that has had sooo many directors WALK out in the last 5 years..

[RockinRover]

Any talk about actual transfer news or have we all gone off on the conspiracies and Venky's out chatter again?

Fully support talking about that, in other threads!

[JHRover]

Dress it up as what? Ambitious? When have any fans remarked how "ambitious" the owners are? The price pledge for promotion is a marketing tool, not some elaborate method of deception to con fans into thinking we are ready to invest!

Why shouldn't the club wipe it's face? I know you are convinced that investment is the only solution, in reality life goes on if it's not an option. If I had the choice of a. New owners run club cheap or b. Current owners invest, what do you think my answer would be?

This gap that you've spoken of between last summer and relegation, why didn't we sell players in this time? Or did we? Dann (who was captain) Marcus Olsson, Formica, Rochina etc. The bit that probably makes you forget those is the continuous "pay off" and managerial change stories. All the cost of inept owners.

Is this anger directed at them for being clueless? Or complicit? You've ignored plenty of what I've said to carry on the message of "fiddling" but at what point would you accept that "investment" is not a God given right, or an expectation of every club.

We are where we are because of mistakes made, mistakes that we will pay for for some time. I'm happy to discuss the mistakes with anyone, I'm as cinnical towards the owners idiocy as any fan.

The difference is I'm not in the camp of people who are convinced that decisions are made at Ewood wrongly on purpose. The decisions taken are a result of being "unambitious" or previous mistakes, not simply to con the fans!

The owners of the business. That's clear as day. Whether it's borrowed of mortgages, it's still against owner assets.

Yes they are trying to dress it up as being ambitious.

What decisions am I saying are being made 'wrongly on purpose'?. All I've said is that I believe there is a strategy in place to cash in on our remaining assets this summer, and that sooner or later in this window one or more of Hanley, Marshall or Duffy will be sold off to cover the cost of the next instalment of bills and Coyle's free transfers, and that very little of the money brought in will be reinvested into quality players. They will time the sale to try and avoid fan backlash and paint themselves as innocent, when I believe there is and will be an eagerness on their part to sell and they will encourage other clubs to bid.

I'm not suggesting its 'fiddling', its certainly not illegal or but rather the old story of giving with one hand whilst knowing full well that in a short while they will be taking more away with the other, and yet they will attempt over the coming weeks to paint a picture of normality and ambition by allowing Coyle to sign 5-6 free signings clear in the knowledge they're going to crack on and sell a multi million pound player a few weeks down the line.

The owners and those that speak for them like to portray themselves as some wonderful benevolent people who continue to want to improve the club and never say no to spending money.

They might do the above because they are being unambitious, or merely because there is no money left at their end to spend more cash. I don't know. But there's quite obviously a trend here. They plan on cashing in left, right and centre. That will end in disaster.

They could be honest and admit there's no money left and they are going to sell sell sell, but they won't do that either, they'll continue to try and pull the wool over our eyes by leading people to think all is normal and well before following through with the plan all along to sell off a prized asset.

[Parsonblue]

Pocketing the fees they might not be, but it's completely disgraceful to use transfer fees to run the club. They fecked up, they should be correcting the mess they created themselves.

That WILL wind up the fans!

Prior to Jack getting involved that is how the club operated. Sell players, try and buy replacements for a fraction of the fee received and put the rest into the everyday running of the club. That was at a time when the board was made up of local businessmen who cared about the club and its future. Now we have owners who don't appear to have feelings for the club and no doubt see it as just a business venture that has not worked out. There is little motivation for them to plough good money after bad. They seem to have opted to keep the club ticking over and no more. One suspects that Coyle got the job simply on the grounds that he was prepared to work with the existing backroom staff and so save costs on paying people up and hiring others to replace them. Thus with transfers, any new players brought in will be funded by the saving on wages of those released together with a couple of sales. There is nothing new in this although many of us had hoped that we had put those days behind us for good.

[ABBEY]

Any talk about actual transfer news or have we all gone off on the conspiracies and Venky's out chatter again?

Fully support talking about that, in other threads!

Actual transfer stuff = 3 words .. One player in

Rest is chat .

Prior to Jack getting involved that is how the club operated. Sell players, try and buy replacements for a fraction of the fee received and put the rest into the everyday running of the club. That was at a time when the board was made up of local businessmen who cared about the club and its future. Now we have owners who don't appear to have feelings for the club and no doubt see it as just a business venture that has not worked out. There is little motivation for them to plough good money after bad. They seem to have opted to keep the club ticking over and no more. One suspects that Coyle got the job simply on the grounds that he was prepared to work with the existing backroom staff and so save costs on paying people up and hiring others to replace them. Thus with transfers, any new players brought in will be funded by the saving on wages of those released together with a couple of sales. There is nothing new in this although many of us had hoped that we had put those days behind us for good.

Lambert was the breaking point for me . I was actually for first time in years looking forward to the new season , now I just feel hurt and sick at the pillage and murder of our club

#venkysout

[K-Hod]

Prior to Jack getting involved that is how the club operated. Sell players, try and buy replacements for a fraction of the fee received and put the rest into the everyday running of the club. That was at a time when the board was made up of local businessmen who cared about the club and its future. Now we have owners who don't appear to have feelings for the club and no doubt see it as just a business venture that has not worked out. There is little motivation for them to plough good money after bad. They seem to have opted to keep the club ticking over and no more. One suspects that Coyle got the job simply on the grounds that he was prepared to work with the existing backroom staff and so save costs on paying people up and hiring others to replace them. Thus with transfers, any new players brought in will be funded by the saving on wages of those released together with a couple of sales. There is nothing new in this although many of us had hoped that we had put those days behind us for good.

Not disputing any of that Parson, but the problem is these aren't local businessmen that cared about the club and its future, these are unscrupulous businessmen that have pillaged the club from top to bottom. I'm not about to be grateful to them for keeping the club ticking over, when they should be correcting the mistakes they have made.

[Amo]

If you want Rovers to be self-sufficient, you want the club to be non-league.

[JHRover]

Prior to Jack getting involved that is how the club operated. Sell players, try and buy replacements for a fraction of the fee received and put the rest into the everyday running of the club. That was at a time when the board was made up of local businessmen who cared about the club and its future. Now we have owners who don't appear to have feelings for the club and no doubt see it as just a business venture that has not worked out. There is little motivation for them to plough good money after bad. They seem to have opted to keep the club ticking over and no more. One suspects that Coyle got the job simply on the grounds that he was prepared to work with the existing backroom staff and so save costs on paying people up and hiring others to replace them. Thus with transfers, any new players brought in will be funded by the saving on wages of those released together with a couple of sales. There is nothing new in this although many of us had hoped that we had put those days behind us for good.

I think this business model was a lot more sustainable in the pre-Jack Walker days than it is now. In those days the majority of clubs had little/no money, especially those outside the top division, and many other clubs lived on a sell to survive basis of existence with small gates and local businessmen making the decisions and being held accountable by the fans.

However I think the landscape in football, particularly financially, has changed so drastically in the last 25 years that this 'model' simply cannot work any more.

There's nothing wrong with cashing in on a few players from time to time by selling them to Premier League clubs, its part of life in this league, but it isn't sustainable as a long term plan. The cost of assembling and maintaining a competitive Championship team, never mind one with serious promotion aspirations, is so great that living off our own steam isn't an option. If that is the preferred course then League One/Two and a Rochdale style existence is the likely outcome. Clubs cannot survive these days without investment in the top 2 divisions, regardless of how many people turn up to watch. If they don't want to invest any more then they should start looking for someone who will.

[Parsonblue]

Not disputing any of that Parson, but the problem is these aren't local businessmen that cared about the club and its future, these are unscrupulous businessmen that have pillaged the club from top to bottom. I'm not about to be grateful to them for keeping the club ticking over, when they should be correcting the mistakes they have made.

But that's the point K-Hod. They are not local, they have no feeling or affinity to the club. It is just a business venture that has gone wrong. They feel no obligation to correct mistakes because they have no understanding of what a football club means to the community. They are now making cold, hard, business decisions based on the bottom line - cost. I suspect Lambert was their last throw at trying to get back to the Premier League and when that didn't work - and it never had a chance but they had no understanding of that fact - they have opted for the ticking over scenario.

[patrickvalery]

Yes they are trying to dress it up as being ambitious.

What decisions am I saying are being made 'wrongly on purpose'?. All I've said is that I believe there is a strategy in place to cash in on our remaining assets this summer, and that sooner or later in this window one or more of Hanley, Marshall or Duffy will be sold off to cover the cost of the next instalment of bills and Coyle's free transfers, and that very little of the money brought in will be reinvested into quality players. They will time the sale to try and avoid fan backlash and paint themselves as innocent, when I believe there is and will be an eagerness on their part to sell and they will encourage other clubs to bid.

I'm not suggesting its 'fiddling', its certainly not illegal or but rather the old story of giving with one hand whilst knowing full well that in a short while they will be taking more away with the other, and yet they will attempt over the coming weeks to paint a picture of normality and ambition by allowing Coyle to sign 5-6 free signings clear in the knowledge they're going to crack on and sell a multi million pound player a few weeks down the line.

The owners and those that speak for them like to portray themselves as some wonderful benevolent people who continue to want to improve the club and never say no to spending money.

They might do the above because they are being unambitious, or merely because there is no money left at their end to spend more cash. I don't know. But there's quite obviously a trend here. They plan on cashing in left, right and centre. That will end in disaster.

They could be honest and admit there's no money left and they are going to sell sell sell, but they won't do that either, they'll continue to try and pull the wool over our eyes by leading people to think all is normal and well before following through with the plan all along to sell off a prized asset.

If the well has run dry, then it makes it all the more bemusing that they lied about the Seneca approach.

The only reasonable explanation imo is the owners don't want anyone to uncover any misdemeanours. They can't be holding on to us wanting to right their wrongs. Because if they did they'd be investing to get back on an even keel.

So on that basis it's not a huge stretch to at least wonder if any incoming revenue is being siphoned out of the club and easing the financial loss the family have incurred. All the while the club replaces players sold with freebies in the hope we may be able to turn a profit on them. And the process goes on...

I'm not saying everyone should believe that. I'm not even saying I believe all that. But there enough to suggest it's worth considering.

I don't think there is a desire to run the club into the ground. But there no intention to see it thrive either. Seems to me it's all about treading water. No idea what they are expecting to happen though. I said it before but maybe they think there's a better tv deal on the horizon for the Championship. Who knows.

[JHRover]

10 minute warning from Rovers. Presumably news of a signing at 4pm.

[J*B]

10 minute warning from Rovers. Presumably news of a signing at 4pm.

Time adds up... must be.

[SoldierMo]

Powell linked with Rovers

[Lancaster Rover]

It will be the left back on loan and Feeney. Can't say it gets me particularly excited.

I think Graham will be moving on to pastures new, if it takes him this long to give an answer he is obviously listening/open to other offers and the odds are in our current financial state someone else can muster up a few grand extra a week to sway his signature.

[Amo]

It's Stephen Hendrie but they can't even post a working link.

[J*B]

Cut backs everywhere. Even the web team, it seems. Third 'major' news article which has gone on twitter with a 404 Page Not Found link.

Dreadful.

[West Yorks Rover]

Daily Mail seems to be pretty sure we are about to sign Powell, he played for Coyle at Wigan, another one, like Stokes, who seems to have talent

but comes with plenty of attitude problems.