[Archived] Cameron Gone, Osborne To Follow?

[Guest]

You've turned your back and left the uk

People have various reasons for leaving the country, and it's rarely because they don't agree with the way the country is run, but often because other opportunities or personal reasons mean that they should go abroad to fulfil them. It doesn't mean they've turned their backs on the UK at all. I'm leaving the country at the turn of the year but will still be running my own business here in the UK and contributing taxes to the government. To say something like "you've turned your back on the UK" is misguided.

[BlueMonday]

Boris rules himself out of the Tory leadership contest.

Obviously worried he might win and then get found out.

What a right Eton mess we've got ourselves into.

[Husky]

Politics has been ruined.

I was so looking forward to the laughs with Boris as PM and Donald as President.

[Guest]

Most of us are in agreement that this country needs a real leader, now more than ever.

I'm totally disillusioned with Labour. Jeremy Corbyn knows where he stands, but he is extremely naive in terms of knowing how to win the electorate. Sure, he hasn't had his chance at a GE yet, but he is NOT prime ministerial in any sense whatsoever. He's shown nothing to make me want to vote for him.

Angela Eagle... putting that ridiculous sobbing act on when she told everybody that she had to resign from the shadow cabinet. Lo and behold, she's now in the running to become the next leader. Umm... Do I want her as our next Prime Minister? Leaders show that they are strong, not weak. I don't really care what her policies are. I certainly won't be voting for her if she's in the running at the next GE.

Who else do Labour have? Anybody credible? Anyone?!!!

If I had to choose who I want as our Prime Minister right now, I'd have to choose Theresa May. Hardy as she may be, she shows the qualities of a leader, more than any of them. She hasn't f*cked up much, she's not a bumbling buffoon, and she seems calm, collected, and firm when speaking. We can talk about policies all day long, but we HAVE to have a credible leader. She's honestly the only one I can think of, and I'd rather her preside over EU negotiations than Michael @#/? Gove. She strikes me as somebody who will get things done. I want her.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Theresa May is an arrogant, smug liar who wants to privatise the police, prisons and so on, introduce a bill that allows the state to read our e-mails for little or no reason and has abused the police and robbed their pensions. She is as bad as all the others and is not a credible leader. If she won, and became a PM after 2020, then the country deserves to go down the crapper. May is a dangerous person.

I agree about Labour though Phil. That is a great summary about the mess they're in. I think if you're left wing and not taken in by the bollards about 'pakis and Poles' UKIP come up with then the Green Party should be a consideration. They seem to be left wing without the extremes of Corbyn or Blair fighting it out in an unending internal battle.

[Biddy]

If by "robbed their pensions" you actually mean, changed them from the unmanageable, bloated final salary pension to a similar pension that normal people get then yes, I guess she has done that.

She also changed the rules to allow widows of officers killed on duty to carry on getting the pension even if they re-marry. DAMN HER!!!

[Norbert Rassragr]

I think it is unfair to change the rules half way through someone's career, and the pension is now pretty crap and the working conditions have gotten worse. I'm not sure what your job is, but I hope it doesn't involve dealing with drunk people spitting at you, shouting in your face and occasionally chasing after scary men with hammers at 3 in the morning. Personally, I think doing that for 20-30 years or more deserves a good pension.

Theresa May is awful, she wants to privatise the police (has any Tory ever watched Robocop?), she is a liar, has suspicious views on human rights and privacy and is unfit for the PM job. People are being sucked in because she is quite firm and coherent when compared to the other candidates. It is all image, there is little to really say she is actually any good.

However, there is little to choose from as Gove is another right wing zealot who wants to privatise anything regardless of results and whether it is suitable, Crabb appears to be a homophobic fruitcake, Hunt is his own rhyming slang and Andrea Leadsom has benefited from tax dodging. Out of that shower of s---, I'd say Leadsom was the least worst.

[MCMC1875]

Theresa May is an arrogant, smug liar who wants to privatise the police, prisons and so on, introduce a bill that allows the state to read our e-mails for little or no reason and has abused the police and robbed their pensions. She is as bad as all the others and is not a credible leader. If she won, and became a PM after 2020, then the country deserves to go down the crapper. May is a dangerous person.

I agree about Labour though Phil. That is a great summary about the mess they're in. I think if you're left wing and not taken in by the bollards about 'pakis and Poles' UKIP come up with then the Green Party should be a consideration. They seem to be left wing without the extremes of Corbyn or Blair fighting it out in an unending internal battle.

About as dangerous as you, Norbert, I'd say!

[Baz]

I think it is unfair to change the rules half way through someone's career, and the pension is now pretty crap and the working conditions have gotten worse. I'm not sure what your job is, but I hope it doesn't involve dealing with drunk people spitting at you, shouting in your face and occasionally chasing after scary men with hammers at 3 in the morning. Personally, I think doing that for 20-30 years or more deserves a good pension.

Theresa May is awful, she wants to privatise the police (has any Tory ever watched Robocop?), she is a liar, has suspicious views on human rights and privacy and is unfit for the PM job. People are being sucked in because she is quite firm and coherent when compared to the other candidates. It is all image, there is little to really say she is actually any good.

However, there is little to choose from as Gove is another right wing zealot who wants to privatise anything regardless of results and whether it is suitable, Crabb appears to be a homophobic fruitcake, Hunt is his own rhyming slang and Andrea Leadsom has benefited from tax dodging. Out of that shower of s---, I'd say Leadsom was the least worst.

My cousin is a copper, and he says he spends his night shifts reading books, and occasionally getting called out to the same 10-15 couples who regularly argue to a point where one of them calls the police, so they go and take one of them back to the cells to cool off. I'd imagine he'd be far happier with a bit more action.

The fire brigade is the one where she has got the pension reforms wrong. She wanted to be able to sack, and take away the pension rights of firefighters who fail their fitness test, so they could serve until 55 then fail a fitness test and lose everything bar their basic state pension. That's just wrong.

[Guest]

I think it is unfair to change the rules half way through someone's career, and the pension is now pretty crap and the working conditions have gotten worse. I'm not sure what your job is, but I hope it doesn't involve dealing with drunk people spitting at you, shouting in your face and occasionally chasing after scary men with hammers at 3 in the morning. Personally, I think doing that for 20-30 years or more deserves a good pension.

How many times have we all heard that working in the public sector gets you a great pension? It's no secret that the public sector pays fantastic pensions compared to most other schemes. But, by your logic, what about customer service representatives in the private sector? They receive abuse all day long! Will they also get a good pension because of the abuse they receive? No; at least nowhere near what public sector workers receive.

With the UK's ever-growing budget deficit and rising debts, how are we supposed to answer to future generations if we don't make efforts to cut down on our tab that our descendants for generations to come are going to have to pick up? Cut-downs have to come somewhere, I'm afraid, and this area was one of them.

[jim mk2]

How many times have we all heard that working in the public sector gets you a great pension? It's no secret that the public sector pays fantastic pensions compared to most other schemes. But, by your logic, what about customer service representatives in the private sector? They receive abuse all day long! Will they also get a good pension because of the abuse they receive? No; at least nowhere near what public sector workers receive.

With the UK's ever-growing budget deficit and rising debts, how are we supposed to answer to future generations if we don't make efforts to cut down on our tab that our descendants for generations to come are going to have to pick up? Cut-downs have to come somewhere, I'm afraid, and this area was one of them.

Race to the bottom that hits ordinary people - like everything else.

How about raising taxes and make the elite who caused the financial crisis suffer - I mean really suffer.

[Baz]

How many times have we all heard that working in the public sector gets you a great pension? It's no secret that the public sector pays fantastic pensions compared to most other schemes. But, by your logic, what about customer service representatives in the private sector? They receive abuse all day long! Will they also get a good pension because of the abuse they receive? No; at least nowhere near what public sector workers receive.

With the UK's ever-growing budget deficit and rising debts, how are we supposed to answer to future generations if we don't make efforts to cut down on our tab that our descendants for generations to come are going to have to pick up? Cut-downs have to come somewhere, I'm afraid, and this area was one of them.

I have to disagree, hard won workers rights shouldn't just be given away. The problem isnt the pension rights of public sector workers, its far more to do with tax avoidance by the biggest companies, and the ever growing disparity in wages between the top executives and the rest at a lot of companies. Our wealthiest people have gotten a lot richer during this period of austerity.

As someone who has never worked in the public sector, am I jealous of some of the packages given to public sector workers? To some degree yes, but jealousy isnt a reason to remove them.

[MCMC1875]

Race to the bottom that hits ordinary people - like everything else.

How about raising taxes and make the elite who caused the financial crisis suffer - I mean really suffer.

Yes, let's trash the economy again jim. It's a 20 year cycle if you know your history. Labour break the bank and the Tories put the pieces back together.

Same old, same old........

[Guest]

I have to disagree, hard won workers rights shouldn't just be given away. The problem isnt the pension rights of public sector workers, its far more to do with tax avoidance by the biggest companies, and the ever growing disparity in wages between the top executives and the rest at a lot of companies. Our wealthiest people have gotten a lot richer during this period of austerity.

As someone who has never worked in the public sector, am I jealous of some of the packages given to public sector workers? To some degree yes, but jealousy isnt a reason to remove them.

I entirely agree, Baz. My point was just a direct answer to Norbert suggesting that police deserve higher pensions than most others.

Dealing with tax avoidance should come first and foremost, absolutely. Unfortunately, it's been half-arsed attempt by Cameron and his administration. The poorest who have been primarily targeted, but everything has to be looked at, surely. The welfare state cannot keep us at the point of borrowing £150bn per year to keep it going. It's now down to £78bn and, somehow, it has to come down further. Let's hope a better effort against tax avoidance and FAIR cuts in other areas drive that figure down.

[yoda]

I entirely agree, Baz. My point was just a direct answer to Norbert suggesting that police deserve higher pensions than most others.

Dealing with tax avoidance should come first and foremost, absolutely. Unfortunately, it's been half-arsed attempt by Cameron and his administration. The poorest who have been primarily targeted, but everything has to be looked at, surely. The welfare state cannot keep us at the point of borrowing £150bn per year to keep it going. It's now down to £78bn and, somehow, it has to come down further. Let's hope a better effort against tax avoidance and FAIR cuts in other areas drive that figure down.

Tax evasion should be 1st as that is breaking the law, tax avoidance requires a change in the law

[jim mk2]

Yes, let's trash the economy again jim. It's a 20 year cycle if you know your history. Labour break the bank and the Tories put the pieces back together.

Same old, same old........

I shouldn't reply to this nonsense (and yoda must be equally daft if he "liked" it) but you really ought to do some wider reading before spouting the same old lines from the public bar.

[jim mk2]

Tax evasion should be 1st as that is breaking the law, tax avoidance requires a change in the law

Tax avoidance is as big a problem as evasion. It is far too easy for corporations, small businesses and individuals to avoid paying tax. Ordinary people and public services have been suffering for 6 years because of austerity - thousands of tax loopholes need to be closed.

[Mike E]

I shouldn't reply to this nonsense (and yoda must be equally daft if he "liked" it) but you really ought to do some wider reading before spouting the same old lines from the public bar.

I know lefties who say the same 'nonsense', so quite how left you must be, I'm not sure.

[yoda]

Tax avoidance is as big a problem as evasion. It is far too easy for corporations, small businesses and individuals to avoid paying tax. Ordinary people and public services have been suffering for 6 years because of austerity - thousands of tax loopholes need to be closed.

Why did Blair not do something about then when he had the chance ?

Still running around calling people names when they have a different point of view to you Jim tut tut,

[jim mk2]

Why did Blair not do something about then when he had the chance ?

Still running around calling people names when they have a different point of view to you Jim tut tut,

Don't be silly. He was in power 10 years ago in a different time with different problems.

[yoda]

Don't be silly. He was in power 10 years ago in a different time with different problems.

Different time same old sh1t

[jim mk2]

Good point. Let's blame Gladstone and Disraeli too.

[Mike E]

Not like you to miss the point entirely jim...

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If by "robbed their pensions" you actually mean, changed them from the unmanageable, bloated final salary pension to a similar pension that normal people get then yes, I guess she has done that.

She also changed the rules to allow widows of officers killed on duty to carry on getting the pension even if they re-marry. DAMN HER!!!

Similar pension? The government had to force employers to contribute to pension schemes because up and down the country there were a huge number who wouldn't even contemplate the idea. Well the legal minimum now is 1%, which is what I get from my company. Public sector don't know how lucky they still have it.

[Baz]

Similar pension? The government had to force employers to contribute to pension schemes because up and down the country there were a huge number who wouldn't even contemplate the idea. Well the legal minimum now is 1%, which is what I get from my company. Public sector don't know how lucky they still have it.

For a lot of private sector companies, this 1% has negatively impacted workers, as thats all you get, instead of the 3% contribution most companies used to offer. I read somewhere that the overall contributions made by private sector companies has decreased under this 'helpful' measure.