[Archived] Alan Irvine Departs

[Ste B]

Sat in pub with some cockney boys .. West Ham

And millwall they say burn the wankas out haha . Take no faking @#/? off em San haha

Can you translate that into English.

[ABBEY]

West Ham and Millwall in the same pub Abbey??

Its only a matter of time fella, light the blue touch paper and stand well back.

Haha it's been a quality night .. Arguing politics when I left .,. One of those top nights

Can you translate that into English.

no

[oldjamfan1]

I've no problem with you or your postings per se but you have been trying to normalise, nay, excuse Coyle's appointment with skewed reasoning whilst looking to besmirch Lambert's character. It would be good to know why that is - aside from Coyle's family living on your estate.

Also, there seems to be a theme developing here amongst a number of posters that if you disagree with somebody's opinion then you are supposed to ignore them completely and leave them to post what they like. (Which given this means that the people I DO have on ignore are free to make personal comments without challenge seems off). This is not what this site has been about at least as long as I've been posting so surely we can have disagreements without ending in insults or requests to be ignored (i.e. unchallenged).

I can't speak for other posters but you could not be further from the mark in respect of Coyle. Did you not see my email to Mike Cheston?? I am deeply unhappy with his appointment Stuart and I assume you must be mixing me up with someone else?

Skewed reasoning? In respect of Lambert, Coyle and Irvine (and if you go further back, K**n before them) I have simply posted what I've heard in Glasgow - some of it from very senior football people who were involved in the discussions. If you don't agree with it, or it doesn't fit in with what you think has been happening at the Rovers, I can't do anything about that. I have no agenda for defending anybody - not Lambert, Coyle or Irvine. Unless you have absolute concrete information and facts about any of these people you are only ever offering your own opinions. I posted facts in the main, plus 'gossip' from within Celtic Park.

Besmirch Lambert's character? I posted what I believe - based on information from within Celtic Park - he was up to while still Rovers manager. I'm surprised he got away so lightly on here with his "I'd like to thank the owners" leaving speech and his constant digs at the previous manager (and many of the so-called Bowyer errors he himself repeated) but hey if you think he was a principled guy then fair enough. I have no axe to grind with him (nor am I a GB supporter either).

Please also point out where I have insulted you. It was actually the other way round Stuart - read what you posted! It wasn't simply a matter of disagreeing as you describe (e.g. I have disagreed with at least three other posters tonight, that's a normal part of the dialogue on a MB like this) - you effectively called me out for posting 'ITK' information then backtracking, which hasn't happened. And now you think I'm in some way pro-Coyle????

What is it they say on here? Play the ball, not the man. I have, in fact, no recent form for being certain about something then back tracking and saying it was only a suggestion. You simply made that one up Stuart!

[Leonard Venkhater]

Can you translate that into English.

Roughly....The poster was speaking to other supporters, who say they wouldn't tolerate owners, who behave in this manner....(.but then again, you already knew that!)

[CAPT KAYOS]

Apologies first for the number of quotes - been away from the board all weekend

But they are all connected in some way

On the face of it you are right but once again the fans were treated like idiots. We were told that one of the key factors in the new manager search was to work with the existing team and to work with our youth set up.

Only those who care to believe the bull coming out of the club ... again

I'm not sure why you feel you were treated like an idiot over this Stuart. I certainly don't feel that way. 1/ When Coyle was appointed the vacancy at Norwich didn't exist. 2/ Since Coyle arrived the job at Norwich became available and Irvine obvioulsy wanted it. 3Good luck to him. 4 To fill the gap Coyle brings in someone he has worked with before - nothing new or surprising in that.

1 Are you sure about that PB -even you have said these things always go on in the game (behnd closed doors)

2 How convenient

3 Yep good luck - as we have lost a good one there - or wait a minute as he not done what Lambert did?

4 No there isn't but see your below response - apparently it was obvious he would arrive once Coyle was appointed - WHY ? - again as you have said here the job didn't exist ( apparently -unless you know diiferent)

or could it be yet more lies being spouted by the club?

I have to say I'm with PB on this one Stuart. I don't really think this is either an unusual occurence or a case of lying to the fans. However, I do think its a sad indictment on the current state of the club that Alan Irvine would rather work at Norwich. His own father told me in 2003 that Alan thought the Rovers was the best club he had ever been involved with. How times change!

So why did he leave - see above

Could it not be he has seen what turmoil the club is in - see point 3 above and your later posts re Lambert and Celtic.

We were told that Coyle was the best candidate for the job after a recruitment process which cited working with the current staff and the youth set-up.

The best candidate against those criteria has done the exact opposite - and we all knew that he would. It is clear that the criteria was not applied to Coyle, meaning a different, secret, selection process was used to recruit him. But you just shrug and assume that it's Irvine's personal decision to leave that is the only reason Coyle's own man will be appointed. I'd go so far as to say that your view on this one is insulting the intelligence.

Some folk are so quick to try to say that all is well, normal club, business as usual, 'nothing to see here', 'that sign is fake', 'their families are friends so it makes sense', that they will excuse and dismiss all that has happened - even the very recent - and ignore the bigger picture of the absolutely dysfunctional way that our cub is continuing to be run. There isn't a modicum of honesty coming out of the club - and hasn't been for years - yet all is well in some eyes.

I guess as only the most hardcore fans are left, I will have to accept more and more that people around the place are more than happy to feed on the bullshit. If only there were 20,000 more such, yes, I'll say it, Rovers Fans then the club wouldn't need to bother at all what they did or said. I swear, if they moved Jack's statue to the back of the Riverside, some would just shrug and say, "well, he's had his day. Just being reminded about the good old days is stopping us moving on".

I've no problem with people putting aside the issues to get behind the team on a matchday but making excuses on a fan site is pitiful.

Agree Stu

The trouble with rovers is they have lied and betrayed the fans so much and to such lengths (or depths) that normal occurrences like this get tarred with the same brush. Yes we're a shower but it doesn't mean that every time anything vaguely bad happens it's dirty tactics. That's not happy clapping. Coyle getting appointed and saying he's never heard of SEM stinks to high heaven. Irvine leaving just doesn't. As disappointing as it is.

The fact Irvine is already in work would suggest he may have wanted out. Now I'm not saying that's the case 110%. I don't know. But not every thing that happens at the club is crooked. Just most of it.

This is the issue though pv - there is so much more to this imo and others that appears to be so convenient

vaguely bad - everything is bad at the moment hence why people have good reason to tarr it with the same brush

Fair enough. It's entirely plausible what you suggest Stuart. It's also plausible that Norwich came calling - they are the bigger club after all, what with the parachute payments and their 30,000 "Rovers Fans" - easily 3 times more than us.

See above Bob - when did Narwich come calling and why

You see conspiracy everywhere. Sometimes the obvious reason is the right one - Norwich came calling and offered Irvine a job which was too good to turn down. Personally, I'm more than pleased to be called a Rovers Fan rather than a tin-foil wearing conspiracy theorist. Life's too short to see conspiracy around every corner.

in normal circles I would tend to agree with you PB but there ain't normal circles at Ewood - only triangular ones ( see previous post above)

Calling it a conspiracy theory is just lazy, and 'tin foil hat' is a dismissive put-down to help you ignore the circumstances.

Just to be clear then, you didn't/don't expect Irvine to be replaced by Stewart from the moment Coyle was appointed? You really are that obtuse? Ok then.

See below Stu - apparently it was obvious

There's a middle ground Abbey. Always has been.

Is there - what is it please?

No there's not #venkysout

Agree Abs unless somebody can prove different

Loons out

1/ When Coyle was appointed it was obvious that Stewart and Hughes would arrive. Just as it was obvious Hughes would bring in his own team. 2/ I can't believe that anyone didn't think that Hughes and Stewart would arrive to supplement Irvine and Kelly and, just as Hughes did with Parkes, eventually make changes.

1/ See previous questions

2/ I can't believe that anyone can accept Coyle as manager under the circumstances

each manager as staff he trusted.

I'm not sure Stewart was coming in until Irvine decided to move on for his own career and put his friendship with Coyle to one side and go to Norwich.

Hughes was always coming in when Batty decide to leave and go back down south.

Good Luck to Irvine at Norwich.

Now I am confused - thought it was obvious Stewart was already coming soon as Coyle was appointed

So who knows more Chaddy - you or PB (or maybe oldjamfan1?)

But this is not what the club asked to believe. They take us for mugs.

Not all of us are taken for mugs

Then we will look elsewhere for another manager and backroom staff. If Coyle fails he won't be the first manager at Ewood to do so. Every appointment is a gamble. Some you win, some you lose - that's football.

Yep - same circle again as Coyle will fail

Events are what they are. Whilst we may not like it the fact is that foreign ownership is now part and parcel of football in this country. The old way of running clubs, sadly, is becoming increasingly rare. Foreign ownership has become the new reality and in many cases has thrown clubs into complete turmoil - Rovers, Villa, Watford, Leeds, Forest, Birmingham, Cardiff etc. Leicester have shown it can work and Sheffield Wednesday seem to be heading in the right direction. In my view, because of the money involved, foreign ownership is here to stay in the top two divisions no matter what we, as supporters, might think. In turn, foreign ownership tends to see clubs run differently than we are use to seeing when clubs were under the control of local businessmen. What we regard as normal is changing at a number of clubs not just at Ewood.

Yep - a mess

Doesn't mean we have to accept it though

I think its fair to say that this has been proved wrong twice in the past 6 months, firstly by Lambert's arrival, then by Warnock's interest.

I don't disagree that Venkys have made rather a hash of things, but Blackburn Rovers is still a big job for a manager.

Hang on - thought you said Lamberts had already been testing the water at the hoops?

So why had he - oh yeah see below?

Lambert also thought he was a shoe-in for the Celtic job Tony. Don't underestimate how much that was an influence on his decision to leave. He's not above criticism in my eyes as I hear a fair bit about what goes on behind the scenes at Celtic Park (much more so than I do about Ewood).

Would I prefer it if Venky's sold to the Ians (or anybody else for that matter)? Absolutely 100%.

Do I think Blackburn Rovers is still a relatively attractive job for a manager? Yes I do, despite everything else that has happened. I don't think we are quite at Leeds levels reputationally and yet they still managed to recruit a fairly highly regarded young manager didn't they? (Which is why I was so annoyed at Coyle's appointment, prompting the email to Cheston, which he still hasn't replied to)

There is a number 4 (which is actually a slight variation on your number 2 I suppose). Irvine had the chance of a job that made more sense to his current family circumstances. And it suited everyone because it enabled Coyle to bring in his usual assistant much quicker than he thought. One of my family seems to think that Irvine has a son or daughter about to start at Cambridge University. I have no idea whether there is anything in this, but Cambridge is much easier to get to from Norwich than the Ribble Valley.

So again why did he think he was a shoe in ?

So from these accounts - he has the temerity to approach Celtic or have discussions with them when he has a relatively attractive ( definite job) - yes there probably is no comparison really in reality terms -but why do this unless he had now realised the mess the club was in and the loons governing it?

As for Irvine - I'm not with this following kids to Uni scenario either - and how convenient (again) that its a club close by - are Cambridge not after a coach?

Good point re other clubs (I wouldn't mind some of Watford's 'turmoil' though)

If you have quick browse through the forums of Charlton and Leeds, * both clubs whom it could be argued have had it worse than us, you don't see childish tantrums, respected posters being called 'oafs', risible conspiracy theories, loyal lifelong supporters being lambasted for buying a season ticket or constant whining and doom mongery.

You do see expressions of anger, protests being organised and, more pertinently, defiance in a determination not to be driven away from their club.

*'In to the Valley" & 'Marching on Together'

This I totally agree on - however you could argue (and I don't feel the scenario is the same ) and its this and the wedge the loons has created amongst the fans

[CAPT KAYOS]

To carry on also sorry

Stuart, on 03 Jul 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

How can this be accepted with a shrug of the shoulders though? Foreign ownership and the so-called model (which is, accidentally of course, making millions for agents) is failing.

For foreign owners with no clue about football, they have been sold an 'investment' and 'publicity'. How do Venkys (or others) ever get a return on their investment, or worthwhile publicity? They do that by being 'ambitious' and throwing cash or debt at a club in the pursuit of success.

Venkys are a breed apart in this regard. They have, and continue to (which makes it worse), pursue failure, whilst throwing debt at the problem and making themselves look like idiots in this country.

I reject the notion that what Venkys are doing and have done is 'part and parcel' of modern football club ownership. Even worse, as long as they can rely on fans peddling such misinformation they can continue to do what they like, regardless of the consequences.

Our club is a sad bird in a cage, being mocked by ignorant, uncaring owners who have someone empty the tray now and again, to clean up the @#/? that their neglect has caused.

Correct and a succinct point with the last sentence

chaddyrovers, on 03 Jul 2016 - 1:14 PM, said:

What are you expecting Rovers fans to do tho Stuart?

Irvine left for Norwich. His choice I've been told. Coyle tried to get him to stay but he made his choice.

So then Coyle turned to his former assistant to come in to join him at Rovers.

Not put up with it meekly

His choice was it Chaddy - by jove never heard of that before

Again - how convenient - but obvious apparently as soon as Cole was appointed so must have made his decision beforehand despite Coyle being a friend apparently and being the ideal appointment to work with him

mustard, on 03 Jul 2016 - 1:42 PM, said:

Do you see those organising the protests or speaking out against the owners getting shouted down by fellow fans?

IMO one of the key reasons for supporter unrest has been driven by those who staunchly defy of any negativity being spoken about the club.

Correct

Jbizzle, on 03 Jul 2016 - 1:47 PM, said:

Sign kelly, Irvine, lambert on 2.5 year deals.

Lambert opted to walk.

We are 100m in debt and not likely to want more pay offs.

Irvine, Kelly etc don't want to give up contracts without a pay off or a job or work.

Job comes up, Irvine leaves replaced by managers chosen staff? (Is stewart even confirmed?)

What's the big hoodwink in that?

The timing and convenience of it JB, and relates back to the initial bile spitted out by the club

Jock, on 03 Jul 2016 - 3:49 PM, said:

Who the hell follows their children to University?
I'm not buying that one. Irvine lives in Crosby. He must have been shoved out by the SEM so slimy crew.

Agree

oldjamfan1, on 03 Jul 2016 - 4:27 PM, said:

I know he was lobbying Celtic people about their manager's job while he was our manager and before he had ever made any public criticism of our owners Abbey. Celtic still had a manager at that point as well, so in every sense it was poor on his part, but presumably thats how things work in the murky world of football. I don't know whether 'release clauses' are common in manager's contracts (hands up who was surprised to hear about it - I certainly was!) but he had one included in his presumably for a reason.

So that will be the murky 'world' of football that is in full operation at Ewood then that you seem to be dismissing?

BlueMonday, on 03 Jul 2016 - 8:25 PM, said:

I was simply making the counter argument.

Somehow somewhere, Rovers supporters have to try and find the middle ground and galvanise against the common enemy.

problem being -is that the bad 'happening's that aren't apparently happening are driving a bigger wedge amonst the fans

oldjamfan1, on 03 Jul 2016 - 8:28 PM, said:

I completely agree with your sentiment here BM but would find it more helpful and positive if we galvanised behind the common cause - the team in blue and white halves

.

Should be but the crux point unfortunately

[MCMC1875]

.

[oldjamfan1]

This is what the official line is http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14597834._He_was_very_honest_and_up_front_about_it____Blackburn_Rovers_boss_wishes_Alan_Irvine_well_after_Norwich_City_move/

[tomphil]

Whatever the truth behind that one we have a spinmiester supreme in situation again now. Oh it's going to be fun........

[JHRover]

Its very simple really, there are only two scenarios.

1) Irvine has walked. He's decided that he'd sooner give up a 2 year contract at Rovers as ASSISTANT MANAGER, in the North West where he has worked for the last 30 years, close to his home, at a club he's been at before, where he's been 'protected' by the board who have ensured the new manager is prepared to work with him, working alongside allegedly a very good friend in Owen Coyle who he has known for years. He's decided to give all that up to go and be FIRST TEAM COACH at Norwich in the middle of nowhere. He's going to have to move house to Norfolk to take up an inferior position with much higher expectations on the teams shoulders. A poor start to the season could very quickly see Alex Neil given the boot and Irvine out of work.

If this scenario is accurate then i think it says it all about what Irvine thinks about this club and its prospects under Coyle and he couldnt wait to get out of the door.

2) Coyle has pushed him out. Coyle will have planned from the outset to bring in Sandy Stewart as his assistant and has been working away behind the scenes to make it happen. Stewart was obviously waiting in the wings, hence the rapid appointment.

If Irvine only told Coyle he was going on Wednesday, when they had their chat, and then by Friday morning the club have gone to the trouble of installing Stewart's name tag on the car park, then that is unbelievably quick for this club and suggests something was in motion behind the scenes before Irvine's announcement.

If this scenario is true then it makes a complete mockery of Rovers'/Cheston's proclamations of wanting to keep Lambert's team in place and we've all been taken for fools.

[gumboots]

How honest and upfront do you think Irvine was? Hope he was anglo saxon honest

[CAPT KAYOS]

How honest and upfront do you think Irvine was? Hope he was anglo saxon honest

Indeed gumboots it certainly begs the question and of others and as we already suspect the club also with the further comment from OC

“He came into work for a couple of days and he loved it and I’ve got to say he really enjoyed what he was doing".

who leaves a job they love?

So maybe he wasn't that upfront and honest

“I think, if truth be told, this approach came certainly before that, and obviously he felt it was right, when he got to see each other face to face, to say we could chat it through, which we did.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Indeed gumboots it certainly begs the question and of others and as we already suspect the club also with the further comment from OC

“He came into work for a couple of days and he loved it and I’ve got to say he really enjoyed what he was doing".

who leaves a job they love?

Gordon Lee, Damian Duff....Nigel Farage.....

[oldjamfan1]

I agree with whoever posted on the Sandy Stewart thread that Coyle does seem to go OTT on some of the things he's said in his interview about Irvine's departure.

Of course, that could be because he knows there have been rumblings amongst the fanbase (e.g. emails from the likes of arbitro and myself to the CEO questioning his suitability to be manager and the recruitment process), conspiracy theories about his SEM link etc he is being ultra defensive.

Unless I'm misreading it (and I did only skim it so I'm happy to be corrected on this) is he saying that Irvine already had the Norwich job before they came back for pre season training, and Coyle was already aware of this, but Alan wanted to tell him to his face?

Just another piece of info I was told this morning about Sandy Stewart. Apparently he was delivering a coaches course at Largs during the first few days of Rovers pre season so couldn't have joined up with Coyle even if he wanted to. Make of that what you will. I have a theory but I'm keeping it to myself lest I get eaten alive by the MB predators.....

...actually what the hell. It looks to me like the Scottish boys (Coyle, Irvine, Stewart and Alex Neil) have all mutually arranged this in advance - Irvine moves to Norwich to fill a gap thanks to the Old Boys Network (Glasgow Branch), Stewart takes his place at Rovers, with a gentleman's agreement that Irvine comes in and helps at Brockhall until Stewart has finished his SFA duties. Everyone's a winner.

So if I'm right (and I am only speculating) it is more about the way the football family works than anything conspiratorial specifically relating to Rovers.

[rigger]

I agree with whoever posted on the Sandy Stewart thread that Coyle does seem to go OTT on some of the things he's said in his interview about Irvine's departure.

Of course, that could be because he knows there have been rumblings amongst the fanbase (e.g. emails from the likes of arbitro and myself to the CEO questioning his suitability to be manager and the recruitment process), conspiracy theories about his SEM link etc he is being ultra defensive.

Unless I'm misreading it (and I did only skim it so I'm happy to be corrected on this) is he saying that Irvine already had the Norwich job before they came back for pre season training, and Coyle was already aware of this, but Alan wanted to tell him to his face?

Just another piece of info I was told this morning about Sandy Stewart. Apparently he was delivering a coaches course at Largs during the first few days of Rovers pre season so couldn't have joined up with Coyle even if he wanted to. Make of that what you will. I have a theory but I'm keeping it to myself lest I get eaten alive by the MB predators.....

...actually what the hell. It looks to me like the Scottish boys (Coyle, Irvine, Stewart and Alex Neil) have all mutually arranged this in advance - Irvine moves to Norwich to fill a gap thanks to the Old Boys Network (Glasgow Branch), Stewart takes his place at Rovers, with a gentleman's agreement that Irvine comes in and helps at Brockhall until Stewart has finished his SFA duties. Everyone's a winner.

So if I'm right (and I am only speculating) it is more about the way the football family works than anything conspiratorial specifically relating to Rovers.

Very MACeavellian

[oldjamfan1]

Very MACeavellian

BOOM BOOM lol

[gumboots]

I agree with whoever posted on the Sandy Stewart thread that Coyle does seem to go OTT on some of the things he's said in his interview about Irvine's departure.

Of course, that could be because he knows there have been rumblings amongst the fanbase (e.g. emails from the likes of arbitro and myself to the CEO questioning his suitability to be manager and the recruitment process), conspiracy theories about his SEM link etc he is being ultra defensive.

Unless I'm misreading it (and I did only skim it so I'm happy to be corrected on this) is he saying that Irvine already had the Norwich job before they came back for pre season training, and Coyle was already aware of this, but Alan wanted to tell him to his face?

Just another piece of info I was told this morning about Sandy Stewart. Apparently he was delivering a coaches course at Largs during the first few days of Rovers pre season so couldn't have joined up with Coyle even if he wanted to. Make of that what you will. I have a theory but I'm keeping it to myself lest I get eaten alive by the MB predators.....

...actually what the hell. It looks to me like the Scottish boys (Coyle, Irvine, Stewart and Alex Neil) have all mutually arranged this in advance - Irvine moves to Norwich to fill a gap thanks to the Old Boys Network (Glasgow Branch), Stewart takes his place at Rovers, with a gentleman's agreement that Irvine comes in and helps at Brockhall until Stewart has finished his SFA duties. Everyone's a winner.

So if I'm right (and I am only speculating) it is more about the way the football family works than anything conspiratorial specifically relating to Rovers.

I might have been with you until you said everyone's a winner. Everyone except Blackburn Rovers who are now stuck with 2 confirmed losers instead of one and someone who could have been good or not.

[ABBEY]

Everyone's a winner Hahahaha #venkysout

[oldjamfan1]

The "everyone's a winner" remark very evidently referred to the four Scots blokes folks, keep your hair on lol.

[Iceman]

Everyone's a winner Hahahaha #venkysout

Sounds like the Lego movie song

[Stuart]

...actually what the hell. It looks to me like the Scottish boys (Coyle, Irvine, Stewart and Alex Neil) have all mutually arranged this in advance - Irvine moves to Norwich to fill a gap thanks to the Old Boys Network (Glasgow Branch), Stewart takes his place at Rovers, with a gentleman's agreement that Irvine comes in and helps at Brockhall until Stewart has finished his SFA duties. Everyone's a winner.

So if I'm right (and I am only speculating) it is more about the way the football family works than anything conspiratorial specifically relating to Rovers.

I could well believe that you are right. I hate the term 'conspiracy' though when used to dismiss the murky goings on in the "football family'. It belittles the point being made, as well as giving others the opportunity to talk about tin foil hats and paranoid delusion. When such events actually it is entirely likely.

I could well imagine a conversation that went*:

"Al, you're a top bloke and I've a lot of time for you but I've have my own men and I have Stewart alongside me at every role. You know how it is, you've been in football long enough."

"I'm not at all surprised. I've already started making enquiries and I've a couple of options".

"Good man. I'll speak to somebody as well. We go way back. I'll make sure you're not out of pocket".

"Yeah, cheers, but I can sort myself out".

"Good man. Right, Sandy is tied up for a few days on a coaching gig so if you could crack on til the middle of the week with the lads it'd be appreciated".

"No problem at all".

"Cheers. Right, do you have the number for the marketing lass who sorts out parking space badges?"

*slam*

(*According to Hugo Rifkind)

[oldjamfan1]

I could well believe that you are right. I hate the term 'conspiracy' though when used to dismiss the murky goings on in the "football family'. It belittles the point being made, as well as giving others the opportunity to talk about tin foil hats and paranoid delusion. When such events actually it is entirely likely.

I could well imagine a conversation that went*:

"Al, you're a top bloke and I've a lot of time for you but I've have my own men and I have Stewart alongside me at every role. You know how it is, you've been in football long enough."

"I'm not at all surprised. I've already started making enquiries and I've a couple of options".

"Good man. I'll speak to somebody as well. We go way back. I'll make sure you're not out of pocket".

"Yeah, cheers, but I can sort myself out".

"Good man. Right, Sandy is tied up for a few days on a coaching gig so if you could crack on til the middle of the week with the lads it'd be appreciated".

"No problem at all".

"Cheers. Right, do you have the number for the marketing lass who sorts out parking space badges?"

*slam*

(*According to Hugo Rifkind)

Exactly Stuart. I've said for a while that if the last 6 years has done anything at all it has shone a light on the sordid goings on in football.

[Norbert Rassragr]

How many ex-players' sons appear in youth teams regardless of ability? Mourinho's son has just signed for Fulham, Alex Bruce, Jordan Bowen.............It is like the upper reaches of the civil service, Conservative Party and banking. But with fewer academic qualifications.

[Blue blood]

I agree with whoever posted on the Sandy Stewart thread that Coyle does seem to go OTT on some of the things he's said in his interview about Irvine's departure.

Of course, that could be because he knows there have been rumblings amongst the fanbase (e.g. emails from the likes of arbitro and myself to the CEO questioning his suitability to be manager and the recruitment process), conspiracy theories about his SEM link etc he is being ultra defensive.

Unless I'm misreading it (and I did only skim it so I'm happy to be corrected on this) is he saying that Irvine already had the Norwich job before they came back for pre season training, and Coyle was already aware of this, but Alan wanted to tell him to his face?

Just another piece of info I was told this morning about Sandy Stewart. Apparently he was delivering a coaches course at Largs during the first few days of Rovers pre season so couldn't have joined up with Coyle even if he wanted to. Make of that what you will. I have a theory but I'm keeping it to myself lest I get eaten alive by the MB predators.....

...actually what the hell. It looks to me like the Scottish boys (Coyle, Irvine, Stewart and Alex Neil) have all mutually arranged this in advance - Irvine moves to Norwich to fill a gap thanks to the Old Boys Network (Glasgow Branch), Stewart takes his place at Rovers, with a gentleman's agreement that Irvine comes in and helps at Brockhall until Stewart has finished his SFA duties. Everyone's a winner.

So if I'm right (and I am only speculating) it is more about the way the football family works than anything conspiratorial specifically relating to Rovers.

If this is true then why would Chesterton lie about working with the existing team? After all none of it should be suspicious - bringing in own assistants or Irvine wanting to move on. So why lie? And if they're lying about this what else are they lying about?

[tomphil]

It's just window dressing flannel I think. They know the gripes of non communication to the fans and this is the answer to it probably. We've got a gaffer who's gob is legendary for going into overdrive and an accountant director who is at least speaking but will only wax standard platitudes because the truth is complicated and basically he'll rarely know nor have a say in what's going on anyway.

Some fans will actually welcome it I suppose.