[Archived] Alan Irvine Departs

[BlueMonday]

Care to explain that a little further? I "drew the conclusion" that (as I'm sick of reading) that this is another "blame the fans" style point.

As said, suspicions has been understandably rife with the Raos, however - not coming to the conclusion that "they signed a player on same day to get bad news out" regarding Irvine is in no way adding to the propaganda.

Genuine question - why do we have to criticise other fans or other view points? Does it validate our own? Malice intended or not, suggesting anyone who has an alternative opinion is "part of the problem" will only serve to cause arguments.

It's like if anyone who's renewed, thanking boycotters for hastening the decline everytime something bad happens. Certainly wouldn't last long on here doing that.

Do I care to explain. No. It's my opinion, accept it, don't accept it. I don't care.

But you 'drew the wrong conclusion'

[JBiz]

Do I care to explain. No. It's my opinion, accept it, don't accept it. I don't care.

But you 'drew the wrong conclusion'

So I was wrong, when I assumed that you meant anyone not ready to put a tinfoil hat on, was part of the problem?

As parson says, threads will descend into the same bickering if fans are having a pop at other fans. When you said fans who refuse to join in are adding to the "propaganda" machine, is this a reference to how how those charged with running the club have pulled the wool over the eyes of the fans?

1. What wool? It's pretty obvious what we are doing (cost cutting) and it's also pretty obvious that there is still a decision making vacuum above. Nothing there strikes as aloof. It seems stark to me. Hamstrung club.

2. How could the fans help to spread propaganda? The fans take the news and make their minds up. Most news isn't even from the club directly, the owners have spoken twice in 2 years...

Since you don't care to explain, I must jump to the conclusion that it's just an example of what PB so eloquently states. Why post or even read when every thread includes a pop at a different view point?

[gumboots]

I just meant on here Gav. Every thread eventually ends up the same and is probably the reason why so few are now posting.

every thread ends the same because everything ultimately comes back to Venky's and whoever advises them owning our club. Nothing is what it seems. Nobody knows who to trust and so nobody trysts anyone. It's rotten from top to bottom and you have to feel sorry for those trying to do the job they have been paid to do to the best of their ability, week in, week out. I'm talking about the ordinary people who work in the ticket office, the shop or wherever. They are not to blame for what goes on but must feel the difference from what the club was just a few years ago. It bothers me that refusing to buy a season ticket will eventually cause job losses and some of the little people will be hit. I just want an honestly run club back.

[ABBEY]

how SteB has never bought me a drink.

or me

[Stuart]

Lambert is a wily old fox. Yes I have no doubt he was given certain promises from the owners. But in the end I think it served to be a convenient excuse to cut loose. I liked him and I think he was our best bet at promotion. But he didn't pull up any trees while he was here and I'm not sure his heart was in it at the end. I'm not sure we could have realistically offered him enough funds to stay on. He was sold a pup, no two ways about it. But despite all that I think he wanted out.

As for Irvine. Well he didn't have much to lose. Out of work. If lambert got it right his stock as a coach goes up. He didn't. And now Irvine has gone too. But nobody will consider the last 6 months as a blot on his record book. Lamberts exit saw to that. And the fact we're a basket case helps too. I wish him all the luck in the world. But let's be honest, was it ever going to work with Coyle? One wants to play attacking gung-ho football and the other appreciates defensive solidity. You could argue the two would help assist the other. But in reality the two ethos' would have probably meant we did neither very well. It's a sham to see him leave. But every manager deserves to do things his own way. A single vision, right or wrong is better than a divided camp. Despite the fact Coyle seems to be a bit of a shyster. At least he seems to know his own mind when it comes to footballing matters.

Of course his heart wasn't in it, he knew he was off.

But the argument in bold reall sticks in the craw. There must have been some very unrealistic expectations set for a manager who was not backed financially.

Just look at the money required to compete for promotion. Sure there's always a wildcard pauper but in reality it takes money to compete.

[BlooBoy]

"There must have been some very unrealistic expectations set for a manager who was not backed financially."

Lambert came into the club proclaiming he was here for Promotion and made several references to the team under performing under Bowyer.That was before he introduced his players to the squad.

So was it all talk and bluster ?

[Blueandwhitemike]

BlooBoy

And PL mentioned many times how important the summer transfer window would be in achieving that aim... Therefore suggesting that promotion wasn't likely this season.

[Stuart]

"There must have been some very unrealistic expectations set for a manager who was not backed financially."

Lambert came into the club proclaiming he was here for Promotion and made several references to the team under performing under Bowyer.That was before he introduced his players to the squad.

So was it all talk and bluster ?

So you think he meant that we would get promoted last season? I didn't. I saw a team and club being rebuilt with success as the aim. Shame Venkys didn't.

There really is no credible argument for bring so dismissive of Lambert.

[Mike E]

Even now (and I'm very willing to support Coyle until he proves himself @#/? for us), I honestly believe we'd be certain play-off contenders under Lambert with a full pre-season and only the initial 8m Rhodes money received.

[patrickvalery]

He also said not having money was no excuse for failure. But it was obviously a good enough excuse for him to leave.

Look, I have no gripe with Lambert whatsoever. Like the man and was delighted when we brought him in. Still think hes been our beSt bet for promotion. But I can't dress it up. We weren't great under him. No agenda. Just stating my opinion.

[ABBEY]

Even now (and I'm very willing to support Coyle until he proves himself @#/? for us), I honestly believe we'd be certain play-off contenders under Lambert with a full pre-season and only the initial 8m Rhodes money received.

I won't ever support chimp head

[Parsonblue]

He also said not having money was no excuse for failure. But it was obviously a good enough excuse for him to leave.

Look, I have no gripe with Lambert whatsoever. Like the man and was delighted when we brought him in. Still think hes been our beSt bet for promotion. But I can't dress it up. We weren't great under him. No agenda. Just stating my opinion.

I must admit that although I liked Lambert and would have loved for him to stay, that statement he made about not using a lack of money as an excuse - presumably aimed at Bowyer - and then walking because of the lack of money was somewhat contradictory. Although I have doubts about Coyle, he is now the manager and will get my support in the same way Bowyer and Lambert did.

[Gav]

He also said not having money was no excuse for failure. But it was obviously a good enough excuse for him to leave.

Look, I have no gripe with Lambert whatsoever. Like the man and was delighted when we brought him in. Still think hes been our beSt bet for promotion. But I can't dress it up. We weren't great under him. No agenda. Just stating my opinion.

How could we be 'Great' when he was in the building for around 20wks? 4 of those he'd announced he was leaving because the owners had regained on the deal that brought him here?

I also think people forget how bad we were when he arrived, plummeting towards league 1, he brought in players to just about keep us up.

History now, but perspective required

[47er]

I must admit that although I liked Lambert and would have loved for him to stay, that statement he made about not using a lack of money as an excuse - presumably aimed at Bowyer - and then walking because of the lack of money was somewhat contradictory. Although I have doubts about Coyle, he is now the manager and will get my support in the same way Bowyer and Lambert did.

I have to say PB, that, in the case of Bowyer that support of your's went on for too long. Obvious to me that we would have been relegated if he'd stayed.

Loyalty is a worthy thing but it should be loyalty to the team not any individual.

[Stuart]

What would really upset me would be if I ever found out that Lambert wasn't backed because of the advice of somebody who later advised that Coyle should manager ahead of four interviewed candidates. Especially when the criteria was to work with the youth set up and work with Irvine and Kelly.

Both of which have already proven to be untrue, with Byrne being loaned in at the expense of an opportunity for development for a youth player and Irvine's already numbered days (for those with any sense) coming to an end already (cue somebody saying "he wanted to leave").

[CAPT KAYOS]

Part of the problem is that fans are blaming each other no matter what they do. Those who don't boycott or protest are blamed for being part of the problem, those who do boycott and protest are being blamed for harming the club. The reality is that neither is true. At the end of the day football and following Blackburn Rovers is a choice you make. Being optimistic or pessimistic is a choice you make. Having renewed I hope for the best and expect the worse, much like I have done for the majority of the 50 odd seasons I have followed the Rovers. What was once an essential forum for supporters is becoming increasingly marginalised because of the endless bickering and continually going round in ever decreasing circles.

The club we new is gone but I really hope we don't end up like Blackpool.

By all means attend games if you want to, but send the message that things are not right and change needs to happen

Supporters falling out with each other is a symptom of the Venky disease. It is also dilutes any protest.

every thread ends the same because everything ultimately comes back to Venky's and whoever advises them owning our club. Nothing is what it seems. Nobody knows who to trust and so nobody trysts anyone. It's rotten from top to bottom and you have to feel sorry for those trying to do the job they have been paid to do to the best of their ability, week in, week out. I'm talking about the ordinary people who work in the ticket office, the shop or wherever. They are not to blame for what goes on but must feel the difference from what the club was just a few years ago. It bothers me that refusing to buy a season ticket will eventually cause job losses and some of the little people will be hit. I just want an honestly run club back.

PB herein lies the problem - regardless of who is at the helm of the team there are to many dark shadows in the background along with the loons.

Its not a case of being pessimistic or optimistic - its about not putting up with the constant lies and absolute dross coming out of the club as well as baffling contradictory decisions and actions that are going on year after year

As many have said and Stu states - the club we knew has gone.

You have openly admitted that you do not like what is going on , and 'hoping for the best but expecting the worse' in the present scenario and circumstances just doesn't fulfil as I am nth% certain you know what the answer is and this is just goes towards contributing to the fiasco by accepting it year on year no matter how you would like to think

As Gav posted -its not bickering or representative and gumboots post hits the nail on the head

As I have stated before, if you chose to continue to go on its up to the likes of your good self to 'do something' about it now , those of us who chose not to go are giving you ample opportunity by not' protesting or creating a 'vile' atmosphere that will upset the over pampered players on the pitch

Its about opening eyes and having a reality check to what is actually happening

or me

or me - mines a Guinness Ste!!

[47er]

What would really upset me would be if I ever found out that Lambert wasn't backed because of the advice of somebody who later advised that Coyle should manager ahead of four interviewed candidates. Especially when the criteria was to work with the youth set up and work with Irvine and Kelly.

Both of which have already proven to be untrue, with Byrne being loaned in at the expense of an opportunity for development for a youth player and Irvine's already numbered days (for those with any sense) coming to an end already (cue somebody saying "he wanted to leave").

Isn't the excuse in this case that 'you can't blame the manager for wanting to have his own staff around him'?

Never mind that we were told specifically they wanted a manager who could work with existing staff!

Lied to and let down is all we get.

[ABBEY]

The club we knew and loved is dead . It died when the scum let lambert go and replaced him with a rovers fans hater who tells lies and who is a chimp headed dirty crap dingle turd.

[Gav]

The club we knew and loved is dead . It died when the scum let lambert go and replaced him with a rovers fans hater who tells lies and who is a chimp headed dirty crap dingle turd.

Stop dressing things up, say what you mean man!

[MCMC1875]

Just as much bickering in the good days as we have now, we just bickered about different things like the the color of the snack bar and how SteB has never bought me a drink.

...or me!

[Parsonblue]

PB herein lies the problem - regardless of who is at the helm of the team there are to many dark shadows in the background along with the loons. CLEARLY YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE SO PLEASE NAME THEM SO WE ALL KNOW.

Its not a case of being pessimistic or optimistic - its about not putting up with the constant lies and absolute dross coming out of the club as well as baffling contradictory decisions and actions that are going on year after year. OWNERS MAKE BAD DECISIONS SHOCK!

As many have said and Stu states - the club we knew has gone. LAST TIME I LOOKED IT WAS STILL BLACKBURN ROVERS, FORMED IN 1875, THAT WAS PLAYING AT EWOOD PARK. WHEN IT BECOMES SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT THEN WE WILL KNOW THE CLUB WE KNEW HAS GONE.

You have openly admitted that you do not like what is going on , and 'hoping for the best but expecting the worse' in the present scenario and circumstances just doesn't fulfil as I am nth% certain you know what the answer is and this is just goes towards contributing to the fiasco by accepting it year on year no matter how you would like to think. I NEVER ENJOY SEEING THE ROVERS GO THROUGH BAD TIMES, WHO DOES? BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WANT TO STOP SUPPORTING THE CLUB.

As Gav posted -its not bickering or representative and gumboots post hits the nail on the head

As I have stated before, if you chose to continue to go on its up to the likes of your good self to 'do something' about it now , those of us who chose not to go are giving you ample opportunity by not' protesting or creating a 'vile' atmosphere that will upset the over pampered players on the pitch. I WILL GO ON AND SUPPORT MY CLUB AND THE PLAYERS REPRESENTING THAT CLUB - WHICH IS WHAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE RENEWING THEIR SEASON TICKETS WILL DO.

Its about opening eyes and having a reality check to what is actually happening. JUST BECAUSE SOME HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE THEIR EYES CLOSED. THEY JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION ON EVENTS.

or me - mines a Guinness Ste!!

[CAPT KAYOS]

PB herein lies the problem - regardless of who is at the helm of the team there are to many dark shadows in the background along with the loons. CLEARLY YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE SO PLEASE NAME THEM SO WE ALL KNOW. - sorry , as with many I am not an ITK but all the goings on and comings and goings on for the past 6 yrs bares more clear evidence to the fact than not

Its not a case of being pessimistic or optimistic - its about not putting up with the constant lies and absolute dross coming out of the club as well as baffling contradictory decisions and actions that are going on year after year. OWNERS MAKE BAD DECISIONS SHOCK! - yet again .. need I say more

As many have said and Stu states - the club we knew has gone. LAST TIME I LOOKED IT WAS STILL BLACKBURN ROVERS, FORMED IN 1875, THAT WAS PLAYING AT EWOOD PARK. WHEN IT BECOMES SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT THEN WE WILL KNOW THE CLUB WE KNEW HAS GONE. -can't and won't disagree and as much of us 'stayaways' will still seek to recognise that (hypocritically?) - but at present that is all it is - infected with an evident but unknown illusive disease

You have openly admitted that you do not like what is going on , and 'hoping for the best but expecting the worse' in the present scenario and circumstances just doesn't fulfil as I am nth% certain you know what the answer is and this is just goes towards contributing to the fiasco by accepting it year on year no matter how you would like to think. I NEVER ENJOY SEEING THE ROVERS GO THROUGH BAD TIMES, WHO DOES? BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WANT TO STOP SUPPORTING THE CLUB. - and as explained supporting the regime in the same instance - it can't be separated without making a stand for something you openly know about IMO -catch 22 possibly?

As Gav posted -its not bickering or representative and gumboots post hits the nail on the head

As I have stated before, if you chose to continue to go on its up to the likes of your good self to 'do something' about it now , those of us who chose not to go are giving you ample opportunity by not' protesting or creating a 'vile' atmosphere that will upset the over pampered players on the pitch. I WILL GO ON AND SUPPORT MY CLUB AND THE PLAYERS REPRESENTING THAT CLUB - WHICH IS WHAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE RENEWING THEIR SEASON TICKETS WILL DO. - again nothing wrong in that and respect and admiration for having the guts ( madness ) to do it against adverse, possibly unwarranted at times, questioning from the likes of myself

Its about opening eyes and having a reality check to what is actually happening. JUST BECAUSE SOME HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE THEIR EYES CLOSED. THEY JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION ON EVENTS. - same as above, but as stated you know things are all not well so cannot argue or complain to the contrary

or me - mines a Guinness Ste!! - Ste will probably not buy you a drink either , but should we ever get to meet I would gladly by you one over a chat

[Parsonblue]

I think a large part of the problem Capt Kayos, is that football has become a global industry in which very rich people are buying football clubs for a variety of reasons other than supporting a club in the local community. The increasing number of foreign owners of clubs in this country has completely changed the relationship between supporters and those who own and run our clubs. When it was local businessmen who owned the clubs it was much easier to register your displeasure and they often took note of supporters feelings no matter how reluctantly. I well remember Bill Bancroft saying Iley wouldn't be sacked and Bill Fox supporting Saxton after he had lost the confidence of the supporters. In both cases the managers were sacked when unrest wouldn't abate. Today, many owners either don't turn up at clubs or are flown in and flown out for matches in double quick time without ever coming into contact with supporters. Because ownership is so remote from the supporter base it has left supporters of many clubs feeling helpless in the wake of foreign ownership - although Blackpool is the exception. Hence when someone like Irvine leaves a club we immediately view it with suspicion. It may well be that he has been offered another job which he prefers. At the moment we simply don't know.

[BlueMonday]

I think the main gripe is that DOING/SAYING NOTHING IS NO LONGER AN OPTION

Buy a season ticket if you want. Boycott if you want. And There's been numerous suggestions on how to register a greivence with the Club.

But I think the main point of conflict,!Is just carrying on as we always have as if nothing is wrong. That in the opinion of some is tantamount to acceptance of the damage that is being done to the Club. And saying, well what can I do, protesting won't change anything is becoming a lame excuse. Protesting on any level might not change anything but a least you can say you did something or spoke up.

[Blue blood]

You'd think that after failing in last few jobs Coyle might want to surround himself with new coaching staff as clearly he was failing with the ones he was working with previously. If he now appoints Stewart to replace Irvine then he seems not to be looking at why he failed and trying a new approach, which does not bode well.

Blimey, I hadn't considered that.

My main concern is that it strengthens the theories that there are underhand forces at play in the OC appointment. Whilst this was known/suspected, it was also feasible that tightwad Venkys in part were sold on Coyle because he could work with the existing backroom team saving them money. Now that's still a foolish saving to try making, but feasible that Venkys would do this. If this cheapness wasn't part of the reason for OC's appointment - and let's be honest it sure isn't his recent record - then the reasons for his appointment must be very murky indeed. The last of the pure (if astoundingly stupid) motives has been stripped away. Another shuffle backwards for this great club.