[Archived] Alan Irvine Departs

[patrickvalery]

You are starting to sound like spark . So are you saying the slumdogs are model owners and a pillar of society & there's nothing dodgy gone on over the past 6 years or however long these tossers have been killing us .

Tin foilers is the new evil tremblers

There's a middle ground Abbey. Always has been.

[ABBEY]

No there's not #venkysout

[tonyoz]

Could be worse.

[Parsonblue]

Calling it a conspiracy theory is just lazy, and 'tin foil hat' is a dismissive put-down to help you ignore the circumstances.

Just to be clear then, you didn't/don't expect Irvine to be replaced by Stewart from the moment Coyle was appointed? You really are that obtuse? Ok then.

And I 'get out' plenty you arrogant oaf.

When Coyle was appointed it was obvious that Stewart and Hughes would arrive. Just as it was obvious Hughes would bring in his own team. I can't believe that anyone didn't think that Hughes and Stewart would arrive to supplement Irvine and Kelly and, just as Hughes did with Parkes, eventually make changes.

[chaddyrovers]

When Coyle was appointed it was obvious that Stewart and Hughes would arrive. Just as it was obvious Hughes would bring in his own team. I can't believe that anyone didn't think that Hughes and Stewart would arrive to supplement Irvine and Kelly and, just as Hughes did with Parkes, eventually make changes.

each manager as staff he trusted.

I'm not sure Stewart was coming in until Irvine decided to move on for his own career and put his friendship with Coyle to one side and go to Norwich.

Hughes was always coming in when Batty decide to leave and go back down south.

Good Luck to Irvine at Norwich.

[Stuart]

When Coyle was appointed it was obvious that Stewart and Hughes would arrive. Just as it was obvious Hughes would bring in his own team. I can't believe that anyone didn't think that Hughes and Stewart would arrive to supplement Irvine and Kelly and, just as Hughes did with Parkes, eventually make changes.

But this is not what the club asked to believe. They take us for mugs.

[ABBEY]

each manager as staff he trusted.

I'm not sure Stewart was coming in until Irvine decided to move on for his own career and put his friendship with Coyle to one side and go to Norwich.

Hughes was always coming in when Batty decide to leave and go back down south.

Good Luck to Irvine at Norwich.

What if these staff he trusts are proven failures like said manager?

[Roverthechimp]

What if these staff he trusts are proven failures like said manager?

Genuine question: are Irvine, Kelly and Batty "proven winners"?

[Parsonblue]

What if these staff he trusts are proven failures like said manager?

Then we will look elsewhere for another manager and backroom staff. If Coyle fails he won't be the first manager at Ewood to do so. Every appointment is a gamble. Some you win, some you lose - that's football.

[Stuart]

Then we will look elsewhere for another manager and backroom staff. If Coyle fails he won't be the first manager at Ewood to do so. Every appointment is a gamble. Some you win, some you lose - that's football.

Unless your surname is Kean or Bowyer.

You are still working on the basis that we are a normal club.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Any manager at Ewood Park will lose considering the owners. So only the desperate and the stupid would eagerly sign up. Coyle has had several failures in his career and has used the same guys as his backroom team. So we can expect more of the same, only quicker.

Owen will be here for a few seasons regardless of results because he'll be happy to get a wage and Venky's have forgotten they own the club. The complete lack of oversight, leadership and planning will mean he's pretty secure.

[47er]

Then we will look elsewhere for another manager and backroom staff. If Coyle fails he won't be the first manager at Ewood to do so. Every appointment is a gamble. Some you win, some you lose - that's football.

PB, you invariably hark back to the past when this sort of thread comes up. I don't know if you mean it this way but it reads to me that you are trying to normalise events. As if this is merely the latest in a long, long continuum. It's not quite "everything's alright" but it reads as an attempt to reduce the anxiety. The problem is that this anxiety is totally justified. The death of the club is surely a very real possibility.

We haven't had anything like that in my lifetime if ever. We can't just carry on as normal as you want to.

There is hardly anything normal about Blackburn Rovers these days and that has been the case for over 6 sad years.

[tomphil]

Any manager at Ewood Park will lose considering the owners. So only the desperate and the stupid would eagerly sign up. Coyle has had several failures in his career and has used the same guys as his backroom team. So we can expect more of the same, only quicker.

Owen will be here for a few seasons regardless of results because he'll be happy to get a wage and Venky's have forgotten they own the club. The complete lack of oversight, leadership and planning will mean he's pretty secure.

I'd say other connections as well will make him secure for a while or until he's overseen getting the next ten/twenty million in through the door at least.

[Parsonblue]

PB, you invariably hark back to the past when this sort of thread comes up. I don't know if you mean it this way but it reads to me that you are trying to normalise events. As if this is merely the latest in a long, long continuum. It's not quite "everything's alright" but it reads as an attempt to reduce the anxiety. The problem is that this anxiety is totally justified. The death of the club is surely a very real possibility.

We haven't had anything like that in my lifetime if ever. We can't just carry on as normal as you want to.

There is hardly anything normal about Blackburn Rovers these days and that has been the case for over 6 sad years.

Events are what they are. Whilst we may not like it the fact is that foreign ownership is now part and parcel of football in this country. The old way of running clubs, sadly, is becoming increasingly rare. Foreign ownership has become the new reality and in many cases has thrown clubs into complete turmoil - Rovers, Villa, Watford, Leeds, Forest, Birmingham, Cardiff etc. Leicester have shown it can work and Sheffield Wednesday seem to be heading in the right direction. In my view, because of the money involved, foreign ownership is here to stay in the top two divisions no matter what we, as supporters, might think. In turn, foreign ownership tends to see clubs run differently than we are use to seeing when clubs were under the control of local businessmen. What we regard as normal is changing at a number of clubs not just at Ewood.

[oldjamfan1]

Any manager at Ewood Park will lose considering the owners. So only the desperate and the stupid would eagerly sign up.

I think its fair to say that this has been proved wrong twice in the past 6 months, firstly by Lambert's arrival, then by Warnock's interest.

I don't disagree that Venkys have made rather a hash of things, but Blackburn Rovers is still a big job for a manager.

[arbitro]

I think its fair to say that this has been proved wrong twice in the past 6 months, firstly by Lambert's arrival, then by Warnock's interest.

I don't disagree that Venkys have made rather a hash of things, but Blackburn Rovers is still a big job for a manager.

I think the only type of manager we are likely to attract are from the desperado category of which I believe Warnock and Coyle to be or a young manager who just wants to get on the ladder. The former are the fire fighting type who are used to working within tight constraints. Sadly under the current owners that is where we are and likely to be for a long time. If the Seneca offer was accepted do you think we would have got Coyle?

Lambert came with a promise of money being made available and when he was told (by Myers) there was none he exercised the clause in his contract to leave.

[Veevs]

I'd say other connections as well will make him secure for a while or until he's overseen getting the next ten/twenty million in through the door at least.

The scary part is even if he can bring in money of that level.. we will still be losing almost double that each season. I can easy see a scenario with him bringing in promising youth players, giving them game time no matter what and increasing their values so their parent clubs/agents reap the rewards.. wonder if there are any backhanders for doing that.

[Blue blood]

Name calling aside, I think Stuart's right on this. This can only be seen as another black mark on our club.

Let's think through this logically:

Chesterton says he wants the new manager to work with Irvine and Kelly. So either:

1. Chesterton was lying

2. This is the plan to save some money and a key criteria

3. Chesterton naively assumed Irvine and Kelly would stay without taking into the consideration they may want other jobs etc.

Now of the options I find number 3 hardest to believe. One, because if it were a criteria, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to seek assurances from Irvine and Kelly that they are willing to stay on (although this is Blackburn Rovers...) but also because the club told us that Irvine and Kelly were consulted in the new manager search which strongly suggests that the plan was option 2. Otherwise why consult them?

Two months later Irvine leaves for another job. So this means either:

1. Chesterton was lying

2. Something has gone badly wrong which has changed Irvine's mind from wanting to stay to wanting to get out.

3. Chesterton naively assumed Irvine and Kelly would stay without taking into the consideration they may want other jobs etc.

Now whichever of these options it is the ramifications of it are huge for Rovers. If it's:

1. Why lie about this? Managers always bring in their own staff so why lie about something which wouldn't raise complaints unless you knew there was something shady or unpopular about the appointment and needed to smooth the way as much as possible. And if that were the case that suggests OC was already tipped for the post. Dodgy indeed? Or some even more dodgy reason to lie.

2. What's made Irvine want to jump ship? That must be a big worry given we were non too stable before hand so he must have serious reservations. And before people continue to say it's a better offer - it's a step down (assistant manager to first team coach) and leaving an area settled in, plus it's hardly the job offer no one can refuse, so I don't think it's a case of him having his head turned. So what would make him want to leave? This suggests that things are getting even worse at the club, if this is the case.

3. Firstly it shows the huge incompetency of those conducting the managerial search if they didn't factor in the backroom staff might leave. Does that invalidate the managerial search? Also if working in the existing structure was a false criteria - i.e. it doesn't actually exist as the backroom staff could clear off - then does that mean there were better candidates passed over because they wanted their own backroom team in place? Have we once again missed out on better candidates? (I know the answer to this one!) Also assuming the board plan and direct and all that stuff real leadership does, what does that do for Coyle's tenability in the role? Are they having reservations they've not picked the right man in the new criteria? Does this give him less time to get things right?

Whichever way you look at it, however it has actually fallen, the whole thing reflects badly on us.

[oldjamfan1]

I think the only type of manager we are likely to attract are from the desperado category of which I believe Warnock and Coyle to be or a young manager who just wants to get on the ladder. The former are the fire fighting type who are used to working within tight constraints. Sadly under the current owners that is where we are and likely to be for a long time. If the Seneca offer was accepted do you think we would have got Coyle?

Lambert came with a promise of money being made available and when he was told (by Myers) there was none he exercised the clause in his contract to leave.

Lambert also thought he was a shoe-in for the Celtic job Tony. Don't underestimate how much that was an influence on his decision to leave. He's not above criticism in my eyes as I hear a fair bit about what goes on behind the scenes at Celtic Park (much more so than I do about Ewood).

Would I prefer it if Venky's sold to the Ians (or anybody else for that matter)? Absolutely 100%.

Do I think Blackburn Rovers is still a relatively attractive job for a manager? Yes I do, despite everything else that has happened. I don't think we are quite at Leeds levels reputationally and yet they still managed to recruit a fairly highly regarded young manager didn't they? (Which is why I was so annoyed at Coyle's appointment, prompting the email to Cheston, which he still hasn't replied to)

Name calling aside, I think Stuart's right on this. This can only be seen as another black mark on our club.

Let's think through this logically:

Chesterton says he wants the new manager to work with Irvine and Kelly. So either:

1. Chesterton was lying

2. This is the plan to save some money and a key criteria

3. Chesterton naively assumed Irvine and Kelly would stay without taking into the consideration they may want other jobs etc.

Now of the options I find number 3 hardest to believe. One, because if it were a criteria, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to seek assurances from Irvine and Kelly that they are willing to stay on (although this is Blackburn Rovers...) but also because the club told us that Irvine and Kelly were consulted in the new manager search which strongly suggests that the plan was option 2. Otherwise why consult them?

Two months later Irvine leaves for another job. So this means either:

1. Chesterton was lying

2. Something has gone badly wrong which has changed Irvine's mind from wanting to stay to wanting to get out.

3. Chesterton naively assumed Irvine and Kelly would stay without taking into the consideration they may want other jobs etc.

Now whichever of these options it is the ramifications of it are huge for Rovers. If it's:

1. Why lie about this? Managers always bring in their own staff so why lie about something which wouldn't raise complaints unless you knew there was something shady or unpopular about the appointment and needed to smooth the way as much as possible. And if that were the case that suggests OC was already tipped for the post. Dodgy indeed? Or some even more dodgy reason to lie.

2. What's made Irvine want to jump ship? That must be a big worry given we were non too stable before hand so he must have serious reservations. And before people continue to say it's a better offer - it's a step down (assistant manager to first team coach) and leaving an area settled in, plus it's hardly the job offer no one can refuse, so I don't think it's a case of him having his head turned. So what would make him want to leave? This suggests that things are getting even worse at the club, if this is the case.

3. Firstly it shows the huge incompetency of those conducting the managerial search if they didn't factor in the backroom staff might leave. Does that invalidate the managerial search? Also if working in the existing structure was a false criteria - i.e. it doesn't actually exist as the backroom staff could clear off - then does that mean there were better candidates passed over because they wanted their own backroom team in place? Have we once again missed out on better candidates? (I know the answer to this one!) Also assuming the board plan and direct and all that stuff real leadership does, what does that do for Coyle's tenability in the role? Are they having reservations they've not picked the right man in the new criteria? Does this give him less time to get things right?

Whichever way you look at it, however it has actually fallen, the whole thing reflects badly on us.

There is a number 4 (which is actually a slight variation on your number 2 I suppose). Irvine had the chance of a job that made more sense to his current family circumstances. And it suited everyone because it enabled Coyle to bring in his usual assistant much quicker than he thought. One of my family seems to think that Irvine has a son or daughter about to start at Cambridge University. I have no idea whether there is anything in this, but Cambridge is much easier to get to from Norwich than the Ribble Valley.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Events are what they are. Whilst we may not like it the fact is that foreign ownership is now part and parcel of football in this country. The old way of running clubs, sadly, is becoming increasingly rare. Foreign ownership has become the new reality and in many cases has thrown clubs into complete turmoil - Rovers, Villa, Watford, Leeds, Forest, Birmingham, Cardiff etc. Leicester have shown it can work and Sheffield Wednesday seem to be heading in the right direction. In my view, because of the money involved, foreign ownership is here to stay in the top two divisions no matter what we, as supporters, might think. In turn, foreign ownership tends to see clubs run differently than we are use to seeing when clubs were under the control of local businessmen. What we regard as normal is changing at a number of clubs not just at Ewood.

Good point re other clubs (I wouldn't mind some of Watford's 'turmoil' though)

If you have quick browse through the forums of Charlton and Leeds, * both clubs whom it could be argued have had it worse than us, you don't see childish tantrums, respected posters being called 'oafs', risible conspiracy theories, loyal lifelong supporters being lambasted for buying a season ticket or constant whining and doom mongery.

You do see expressions of anger, protests being organised and, more pertinently, defiance in a determination not to be driven away from their club.

*'In to the Valley" & 'Marching on Together'

[Stuart]

Events are what they are. Whilst we may not like it the fact is that foreign ownership is now part and parcel of football in this country. The old way of running clubs, sadly, is becoming increasingly rare. Foreign ownership has become the new reality and in many cases has thrown clubs into complete turmoil - Rovers, Villa, Watford, Leeds, Forest, Birmingham, Cardiff etc. Leicester have shown it can work and Sheffield Wednesday seem to be heading in the right direction. In my view, because of the money involved, foreign ownership is here to stay in the top two divisions no matter what we, as supporters, might think. In turn, foreign ownership tends to see clubs run differently than we are use to seeing when clubs were under the control of local businessmen. What we regard as normal is changing at a number of clubs not just at Ewood.

How can this be accepted with a shrug of the shoulders though? Foreign ownership and the so-called model (which is, accidentally of course, making millions for agents) is failing.

For foreign owners with no clue about football, they have been sold an 'investment' and 'publicity'. How do Venkys (or others) ever get a return on their investment, or worthwhile publicity? They do that by being 'ambitious' and throwing cash or debt at a club in the pursuit of success.

Venkys are a breed apart in this regard. They have, and continue to (which makes it worse), pursue failure, whilst throwing debt at the problem and making themselves look like idiots in this country.

I reject the notion that what Venkys are doing and have done is 'part and parcel' of modern football club ownership. Even worse, as long as they can rely on fans peddling such misinformation they can continue to do what they like, regardless of the consequences.

Our club is a sad bird in a cage, being mocked by ignorant, uncaring owners who have someone empty the tray now and again, to clean up the @#/? that their neglect has caused.

[chaddyrovers]

How can this be accepted with a shrug of the shoulders though?

What are you expecting Rovers fans to do tho Stuart?

Irvine left for Norwich. His choice I've been told. Coyle tried to get him to stay but he made his choice.

So then Coyle turned to his former assistant to come in to join him at Rovers.

[ABBEY]

Lambert also thought he was a shoe-in for the Celtic job Tony. Don't underestimate how much that was an influence on his decision to leave. He's not above criticism in my eyes as I hear a fair bit about what goes on behind the scenes at Celtic Park (much more so than I do about Ewood).

Would I prefer it if Venky's sold to the Ians (or anybody else for that matter)? Absolutely 100%.

Do I think Blackburn Rovers is still a relatively attractive job for a manager? Yes I do, despite everything else that has happened. I don't think we are quite at Leeds levels reputationally and yet they still managed to recruit a fairly highly regarded young manager didn't they? (Which is why I was so annoyed at Coyle's appointment, prompting the email to Cheston, which he still hasn't replied to)

There is a number 4 (which is actually a slight variation on your number 2 I suppose). Irvine had the chance of a job that made more sense to his current family circumstances. And it suited everyone because it enabled Coyle to bring in his usual assistant much quicker than he thought. One of my family seems to think that Irvine has a son or daughter about to start at Cambridge University. I have no idea whether there is anything in this, but Cambridge is much easier to get to from Norwich than the Ribble Valley.

Do you genuinely know what lambert actually thought?

What are you expecting Rovers fans to do tho Stuart?

.

Protest , boycott , grow a pair or at least make a stand .

What do I expect fans will do ... Carry on regardless accept an ex dingle without question and to take whatever @#/? the scum dish out.

Which group are you Chaddy?

[mustard]

Good point re other clubs (I wouldn't mind some of Watford's 'turmoil' though)

If you have quick browse through the forums of Charlton and Leeds, * both clubs whom it could be argued have had it worse than us, you don't see childish tantrums, respected posters being called 'oafs', risible conspiracy theories, loyal lifelong supporters being lambasted for buying a season ticket or constant whining and doom mongery.

You do see expressions of anger, protests being organised and, more pertinently, defiance in a determination not to be driven away from their club.

*'In to the Valley" & 'Marching on Together'

Do you see those organising the protests or speaking out against the owners getting shouted down by fellow fans?

IMO one of the key reasons for supporter unrest has been driven by those who staunchly defy of any negativity being spoken about the club. The amount of times I heard and experienced fans shouting down people for protesting against Kean, protesting against Venky's, for questioning Bowyer, for criticising the appointment of Coyle, etc etc. Ask anyone involved in the organising of protests how much stick they got from their fellow fan. You might not see it so much on BRFCC but it certainly happens on other social media and down at Ewood.

You conveniently ignored the other side to the coin there dgs.

[JBiz]

Sign kelly, Irvine, lambert on 2.5 year deals.

Lambert opted to walk.

We are 100m in debt and not likely to want more pay offs.

Irvine, Kelly etc don't want to give up contracts without a pay off or a job or work.

Job comes up, Irvine leaves replaced by managers chosen staff? (Is stewart even confirmed?)

What's the big hoodwink in that?