[Archived] Labour Leadership Bid And Future Of The Party

[Stuart]

Corbyn has been brilliant for the Tories.

Does make one wonder the political persuasions of many of those "labour membership card holders" that voted him in.

Whether he is right or wrong, and I think he's sadly mistaken and idealistic over the nuclear deterrent question: we would need Russia and N.Korea to disarm too and that ain't happening any time soon, he is making his party unelectable.

Trouble is that he seems to think him being right is more important than providing credible opposition to the government - let alone being able to set up one of his own.

He has lost all of the big votes - including one by his own party.

His time was up some time ago. His continued digging in is quite sad. The trouble is, there is nobody in his party to get behind. Benn would have made a credible leader, as would the other Miliband but it seems to be a party at war with itself. Reminds me of John Major's time in a way.

[jim mk2]

In 2007, May condemned Gordon Brown for not having a democratic mandate when he was appointed Tony Blair's successor and demanded an early general election. Nine years on, having been appointed Cameron's successor after a farcical Tory leadership election, she flatly refused to call a snap general election, which makes her hypocrisy breathtaking to say the least. Remain campaigners warned that Cameron's position would be untenable in the event of a Brexit vote and that his departure would let in the Tory loony right - well, that's is exactly what we have got in Theresa May. Like Thatcher, the woman is repulsive.

[MCMC1875]

Corbyn has been brilliant for the Tories.

Does make one wonder the political persuasions of many of those "labour membership card holders" that voted him in.

Whether he is right or wrong, and I think he's sadly mistaken and idealistic over the nuclear deterrent question: we would need Russia and N.Korea to disarm too and that ain't happening any time soon, he is making his party unelectable.

Trouble is that he seems to think him being right is more important than providing credible opposition to the government - let alone being able to set up one of his own.

He has lost all of the big votes - including one by his own party.

His time was up some time ago. His continued digging in is quite sad. The trouble is, there is nobody in his party to get behind. Benn would have made a credible leader, as would the other Miliband but it seems to be a party at war with itself. Reminds me of John Major's time in a way.

According to Sky, currently 9 nuclear weapons powers in the world.

Apparently 3 are Nato, so that's:

UK

USA

France

That leaves 6:

Russia

India

Plus 4:

Not sure about China?

Does N Korea's work?

Anyone help on this??

[jim mk2]

Pakistan, Israel, N Korea, China.

[MCMC1875]

According to Sky, currently 9 nuclear weapons powers in the world.

Apparently 3 are Nato, so that's:

UK

USA

France

That leaves 6:

Russia

Israel

China

India

Pakistan

North Korea

(credit to jim for the missing countries)

...and on that basis I conclude that I wouldn't be surrendering our deterrent just yet. Discuss.

[Baz]

(credit to jim for the missing countries)

...and on that basis I conclude that I wouldn't be surrendering our deterrent just yet. Discuss.

Apart from a couple of exemptions thats a list of countries you normally wouldn't want to have something in common with.....

Maybe Jezza is right after all?

(Or probably not).

So every time Corbyn disagrees with the Labour whip they give everyone a free vote, yet he expects people to fall in line with the whip when he wants? Doesnt take a genius to see that wont work. Give the guy a sandwich board and stand him in parliament square gardens - he'll be happy there.

[K-Hod]

Re MC's point, in an ideal world we wouldn't have a nuclear deterrent, but this is far from an ideal world, ergo, we need some nukes in case it boots off!

[MCMC1875]

Re MC's point, in an ideal world we wouldn't have a nuclear deterrent, but this is far from an ideal world, ergo, we need some nukes in case it boots off!

Well no K-Hod, we maintain a nuclear deterrent to deter the threats to UK security from 'booting off' in the first place.

[K-Hod]

No K-Hod, we maintain a nuclear deterrent to deter the threats to UK security from 'booting off' in the first place.

Well yeah, I think that was what I meant, it was early when I wrote that! In any case, we'd be sitting ducks without nukes imo.

[joey_big_nose]

Owen smith is positioning himself very well i think. Corbyn could have a fight on.

[jim mk2]

£31bn plus for a few doomsday machines that will hopefully never be used seems alot of money for a country supposedly in a huge financial black hole (copywright George Osborne 2010-2016) and whose economy is predicted to suffer further as a result of an unnecessary referendum. The solution is obvious - more cuts to public services affecting the poorest and weakest in society. And people stilll vote for them.

[MCMC1875]

£31bn plus for a few doomsday machines that will hopefully never be used seems alot of money for a country supposedly in a huge financial black hole (copywright George Osborne 2010-2016) and whose economy is predicted to suffer further as a result of an unnecessary referendum. The solution is obvious - more cuts to public services affecting the poorest and weakest in society. And people stilll vote for them.

So you'd rather be beaten with a big stick by some far eastern country whilst you queue up for your giro?

Anyway, back on topic, you should be worrying about matters closer to home, its possible we could shortly see the end of the Labour party as we know it.

[yoda]

£31bn plus for a few doomsday machines that will hopefully never be used seems alot of money for a country supposedly in a huge financial black hole (copywright George Osborne 2010-2016) and whose economy is predicted to suffer further as a result of an unnecessary referendum. The solution is obvious - more cuts to public services affecting the poorest and weakest in society. And people stilll vote for them.

Or re visit the protected overseas aid budget, over the life of Trident it would leave change left over.

[Paul]

Or re visit the protected overseas aid budget, over the life of Trident it would leave change left over.

An element of overseas aid is often said to be as much about trade as aid. At this point as we look to trade more widely with the world its importance is at least the same as prior to the referendum.

I fully acknowledge there are some grim stories around which question where some of this aid ends up.

[yoda]

An element of overseas aid is often said to be as much about trade as aid. At this point as we look to trade more widely with the world its importance is at least the same as prior to the referendum.

I fully acknowledge there are some grim stories around which question where some of this aid ends up.

There the ones that should be stopped.

Owen Smith is coming under scrutiny now from the left wing about his past activities,

Just wait until the right wing join in, looks like a dead man walking to me.

[BiggusLaddus]

Story from his time as producer on the today programme:

When asked to get hold of a senior policeman for an interview he rang 999...

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36851524

Hahaha he's gonna win again. God this is funny.

[K-Hod]

There will most likely be a breakaway party who have 4.5 years to get their act together. The Tories running effectively unopposed should put the fear of God into enough people.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-36848945

This scares me more. First anti-semitism, now apparently widespread bullying at local level (if 4 groups hundreds of miles from each other have been suspended by their own party then you can bet a lot more have been let off or gone unnoticed).

I'd say the breakaway party is becoming pretty necessary the way the left-wing is behaving. The new nasty party, join Labour, get bullied into the hive mind. You can have any opinion as long as it's Corbyn's.

[K-Hod]

This is exactly why there needs to be a breakaway party, Corbyn is divisive and stubborn as a mule to boot! People talk about democracy, but he won't compromise on anything I.e. Trident and it's all a mess.

I'm just scared of the Tories as a northerner and as someone who doesn't want the NHS privatising.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

This is exactly why there needs to be a breakaway party, Corbyn is divisive and stubborn as a mule to boot! People talk about democracy, but he won't compromise on anything I.e. Trident and it's all a mess.

I'm just scared of the Tories as a northerner and as someone who doesn't want the NHS privatising.

Well, each to their own. Personally as a lower/middle manager in a smallish private firm, I feel as though the Tories have my back more than Labour do. Said earlier in the topic that the impression I get is Labour seem to focus their efforts on ethnic minorities, the public sector and the non-working class (i.e. the unemployed and those receiving benefits for whatever reason).

I've no doubt there are some noble principles driving some of that, but doesn't change the impression I get that they couldn't give a monkeys about me. The Conservatives on the other hand care about business and have always wanted to encourage it.

Having said all that I'd probably be sitting on the fence most of the time (where I always end up in online political quizzes) if it weren't for the immigration issue. I'm far from happy about the Tories constant empty promises to reduce figures, but the general ethos of the left that it's racist to even suggest such a thing will always be phenomenally off-putting to me.

[jim mk2]

The Tories care about no one but the elite and the wealthy. It's amazing that anyone in the north would vote them given how they have trashed northern communities for the past 40 years while continuing to subside their friends in the City and the south.

Presumably northern Tory voters actually support the hard-right economic policies that have ruined working class industries, distributed hundreds of £billions in public assets to private interests, repressed wages; underfunded services and welfare system, turned a blind eye to the tax-dodging of corporations and the super-rich and allowed the bankers to go on one reckless gambling spree after another.

[K-Hod]

I feel like a lot of what you have said is changing at the moment and for me, politics needs a major reshuffle in this country. For example, there was a site 'vote for policies' circa the last election and that had me at 40%Labour/40%Tory/20%Greens....(go figure!)

Personally, from an ideological PoV I don't think I could ever vote Tory, too much has gone on in the past that I'm at odds with. Though, given I work in financial services that always comes as a surprise to most people!! (From a family of teachers, I bucked the trend!)

Politically I guess I'm all over the place, like my vote for policies suggests, but pretty disillusioned at the minute....(I agree immigration definitely needs to be looked at mind and too many people are quick to shoot discussion down, for shame really).

[yoda]

The Tories care about no one but the elite and the wealthy. It's amazing that anyone in the north would vote them given how they have trashed northern communities for the past 40 years while continuing to subside their friends in the City and the south.

Presumably northern Tory voters actually support the hard-right economic policies that have ruined working class industries, distributed hundreds of £billions in public assets to private interests, repressed wages; underfunded services and welfare system, turned a blind eye to the tax-dodging of corporations and the super-rich and allowed the bankers to go on one reckless gambling spree after another.

In the last 40 years there has been 16 years of Labour Gov to 24 of Tory Gov, why did Labour not change it when they had the chance ?

[K-Hod]

For balance Jim, Labour never really tackled the tax dodging either. It would have been nice if they had like, but they haven't....