[Archived] Labour Leadership Bid And Future Of The Party

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

For balance Jim, Labour never really tackled the tax dodging either. It would have been nice if they had like, but they haven't....

Neither did the SNP, wee jimmy krankie backpeddled on that one within about a week of announcing a tax increase for the super-rich. Know that's not exactly the same thing thing as tax dodging but the reason she did it is because it was forecast Scotland's tax revenue would go down as a result, in part due to tax dodging.

Then you've got France's socialist party trying to undercut the Tories in slashing corporation tax to lure companies to France and Germany worried about the rest of Europe following suit.

So you've got Labour, the SNP and Parti Socialiste achieving about as much on tax evasion as the Tories. I suppose it mirrors immigration in a way. The Tories talk tough and do nothing, everyone else just does nothing. On tax everyone else talks tough and does nothing, the Tories just do nothing.

Seems to me both issues are either an incredibly tough nut to crack or there's a very broad political consensus that it's not actually beneficial to crack them.

[yoda]

Neither did the SNP, wee jimmy krankie backpeddled on that one within about a week of announcing a tax increase for the super-rich. Know that's not exactly the same thing thing as tax dodging but the reason she did it is because it was forecast Scotland's tax revenue would go down as a result, in part due to tax dodging.

Then you've got France's socialist party trying to undercut the Tories in slashing corporation tax to lure companies to France and Germany worried about the rest of Europe following suit.

So you've got Labour, the SNP and Parti Socialiste achieving about as much on tax evasion as the Tories. I suppose it mirrors immigration in a way. The Tories talk tough and do nothing, everyone else just does nothing. On tax everyone else talks tough and does nothing, the Tories just do nothing.

Seems to me both issues are either an incredibly tough nut to crack or there's a very broad political consensus that it's not actually beneficial to crack them.

Nail on head, different ball when when you are in charge and have to deliver to being on the outside and just saying you will do something.

[BRFC1995]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36851524

Hahaha he's gonna win again. God this is funny.

bloke im working for and his wife both registered to vote corbyn, £50 nothing to them, both conservative supporters. They didnt think so many would vote think they thought theyre votes might make a difference. Corbyn will have won by a mile other fella just wasting his own time between now and september

[ABBEY]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767615/Shameless-Jeremy-Corbyn-denies-wrong-20-000-appearing-Iranian-state-TV-despite-country-s-abuse-LGBT-people.html

mmmmm

[adopted scouser]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767615/Shameless-Jeremy-Corbyn-denies-wrong-20-000-appearing-Iranian-state-TV-despite-country-s-abuse-LGBT-people.html

mmmmm

Half a million pound house ? That's true socialism comrade.

Shouldn't be too harsh with him though, bits of that poor sod were inside Diane Abbot at one time

[Ribble Rover]

Half a million pound house ? That's true socialism comrade.

Shouldn't be too harsh with him though, bits of that poor sod were inside Diane Abbot at one time

I'd say half a million is cheap for London....surely that's not a stick to hit him with when it's pretty normal

[jim mk2]

The man's lived in north London most of his adult life - it's not his fault the house has risen in price because economic activity has been skewed towards London and the southeast for the past 40 years. Knowing him he's probably left it in trust to his beloved Arsenal FC.

[Gav]

Just listened to Owen Smith on question time and he made 2 comments that stood out for me.

One about going back on Brexit if he's leader and Labour get back into power and he followed that up with not supporting Corbyn regardless of what the membership vote outcome is.

So in essence ignoring the democratic process, ignoring the voters of this country and doing only what he and his fellow MP's decide is right.

Disgusting Mr Smith and you probably just destroyed any chance you may have had of beating Corbyn you arrogant swine.

[ultrablue]

Just listened to Owen Smith on question time and he made 2 comments that stood out for me.

One about going back on Brexit if he's leader and Labour get back into power and he followed that up with not supporting Corbyn regardless of what the membership vote outcome is.

So in essence ignoring the democratic process, ignoring the voters of this country and doing only what he and his fellow MP's decide is right.

Disgusting Mr Smith and you probably just destroyed any chance you may have had of beating Corbyn you arrogant swine.

I haven't been following UK politics much after the shock of Brexit, but I decided to watch Question Time when it popped up on Iplayer.

I had exactly the same reaction as you Gav. He didn't look like a man who wanted to listen to his party's members, nor the country as a whole. Good on the audience members who called him out on it. Basically Owen Smith is 'Labour for life, unless it's a Labour Party that doesn't elect me.'

[den]

Smith was putting out the possibility of another referendum when we actually know the truth of what brexit means - citing that the case for leave was based on lies such as the 350m for the health service and the promise that immigration would be controlled by an Australian type points system. He also suggested at a general election a Labour Party under him might stand on the promise of taking GB back into the EU. Thought we supported democracy on here?

Don't see anything immoral about any of that. The immoral bit was the lies. Whether his ideas would be vote winners though is a different argument. At this moment in time, they very likely wouldn't, but in the future when the truth is realised maybe they would.

[Baz]

Just listened to Owen Smith on question time and he made 2 comments that stood out for me.

One about going back on Brexit if he's leader and Labour get back into power and he followed that up with not supporting Corbyn regardless of what the membership vote outcome is.

So in essence ignoring the democratic process, ignoring the voters of this country and doing only what he and his fellow MP's decide is right.

Disgusting Mr Smith and you probably just destroyed any chance you may have had of beating Corbyn you arrogant swine.

Its incidental, Corbyn is well entrenched in as Labour leader with the members, if not the party, and will be until the Tories get re-elected in 4 years time, at which point he'll be too old to continue and the contest will encourage some bigger hitters to challenge.

Just the 9 more years of Tory rule Gav, minimum.

[Gav]

I don't care who you put in charge of Labour its 9yrs of Tory rule anyway Baz in my opinion.

Corbyn is bringing a different type of politics, the party has to try something different, or be just the same as the Tories but terrible at looking after the economy, which means unelectable anyway.

Whilst all these highly paid labour MP's are destroying the party from within, the Tories are running around unopposed, its criminal really.

[Mike E]

Labour needs to find a way of pragmatically allowing its socialist agenda while continuing the Tories' work in stabilising the economy. It often tries to force it's ideology forwards while forgetting that things need to be paid for.

Equally, the Tories often have to be 'the bad guys' as they are tasked with fixing the economy after Labour play silly buggers with it. Again, however, the go about it by taking the politically easy route of attacking the vulnerable rather than pragmatically targeting those who can afford an extra 1 or 2% of tax (or something).

I can't stand most politicians, but I'd hate a job where I have to please Joe 'They took our jobs' Bloggs, Lord Humphrey 'Toff' Mainwaring-Chomondley the Third, and Danny 'I'm Offended' Hipster all at the same time.

[Stuart]

I don't care who you put in charge of Labour its 9yrs of Tory rule anyway Baz in my opinion.

Corbyn is bringing a different type of politics, the party has to try something different, or be just the same as the Tories but terrible at looking after the economy, which means unelectable anyway.

Whilst all these highly paid labour MP's are destroying the party from within, the Tories are running around unopposed, its criminal really.

So the real Labour supporters can see what he's trying to do here, and everyone just needs to get behind him? It's the fans' fault? Is he forfeiting the next election?

[philipl]

Labour needs to find a way of pragmatically allowing its socialist agenda while continuing the Tories' work in stabilising the economy. It often tries to force it's ideology forwards while forgetting that things need to be paid for.

Equally, the Tories often have to be 'the bad guys' as they are tasked with fixing the economy after Labour play silly buggers with it. Again, however, the go about it by taking the politically easy route of attacking the vulnerable rather than pragmatically targeting those who can afford an extra 1 or 2% of tax (or something).

I can't stand most politicians, but I'd hate a job where I have to please Joe 'They took our jobs' Bloggs, Lord Humphrey 'Toff' Mainwaring-Chomondley the Third, and Danny 'I'm Offended' Hipster all at the same time.

We are going to find soon enough the Tories destabilised the economy.

Six years of austerity only increased the deficit but brought untold pain and humiliation to millions. Now austerity is totally forgotten about as the fire engines are splashing the cash to try to put the Brexit fire out caused by that casual arsonist Cameron

[Baz]

I don't care who you put in charge of Labour its 9yrs of Tory rule anyway Baz in my opinion.

Corbyn is bringing a different type of politics, the party has to try something different, or be just the same as the Tories but terrible at looking after the economy, which means unelectable anyway.

Whilst all these highly paid labour MP's are destroying the party from within, the Tories are running around unopposed, its criminal really.

They are running around unopposed because Corbyn is fundamentally an activist not a leader.

The free-reign of the Tories is allowing their right-wing to set the political agenda.

The labour party don't need to re-invent the wheel- they need to find a leader who is electable- stop apologising for worldwide economic downturn in 2008 - and have some policies that appeal to the middle ground, not just the far left. If nothing else, it will force the Tories to the centre, which is better for the majority, and actually hold them accountable for their actions.

A decent Labour leadership would be trying to get involved with Brexit- you'd barely know it was happening if you listened to Corbyn.

[ABBEY]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/544816/Jeremy-Corbyn-9-11-failed-condemn-terrorists

[yoda]

Just listened to Owen Smith on question time and he made 2 comments that stood out for me.

One about going back on Brexit if he's leader and Labour get back into power and he followed that up with not supporting Corbyn regardless of what the membership vote outcome is.

So in essence ignoring the democratic process, ignoring the voters of this country and doing only what he and his fellow MP's decide is right.

Disgusting Mr Smith and you probably just destroyed any chance you may have had of beating Corbyn you arrogant swine.

I thought the worst part was him suggesting he would join the €

[Gav]

Just watched yesterday's PMQ's and Corbyn wiped the floor with May.

Could Corbyn he growing into the role finally.

[Al]

Corbyn re elected with a 61% majority thereby ensuring a Conservative government for the foreseeable future.

[K-Hod]

Corbyn re elected with a 61% majority thereby ensuring a Conservative government for the foreseeable future.

*Gulp*.

[Baz]

Just posted this on a different thread, couldn't find this one.

First act was to call for a day of protest against the grammar school proposal.

[adopted scouser]

They committed suicide at the Kremlin yesterday, leaving the Liberals as the only effective opposition.

They aren't effective though, so no opposition.

[RibbleValleyRover]

They committed suicide at the Kremlin yesterday, leaving the Liberals as the only effective opposition.

They aren't effective though, so no opposition.

The Lib dems seem to be making a bit of a bounce back in council and local elections, it's what they need to do and then build from there. But this call fora second EU Ref they need to drop, the public have spoken.

Barring a complete meltdown by this government Labour will probably be out of power for decades but then who knows what they will look like once Corbyn has done his damage and moved on.

[adopted scouser]

The Lib dems seem to be making a bit of a bounce back in council and local elections, it's what they need to do and then build from there. But this call fora second EU Ref they need to drop, the public have spoken.

Tim might want to give less emphasis to raising taxes and letting in thousands of immgrants too.