[Archived] England's Next Manager?

[sambo]

Went to the Wales game yesterday. Unfortunately Wales went 1-0 up, stopped playing and were incredibly fortunate to even get a draw.

However, was pretty enjoyable. In the Cardiff City Stadium, which at 32k meant a good atmosphere, with like minded singers bunching together behind the goal.

I'm not sure if they do similar at Wembley, but could be a good idea, as the atmosphere often seems flat. The band would be the first thing I'd get rid of.

[chaddyrovers]

Southgate has dropped Rooney from the team.

Henderson will be the captain

[yoda]

Southgate has dropped Rooney from the team.

Henderson will be the captain

Off topic,

Wenger is the next manager

[chaddyrovers]

Off topic,

Wenger is the next manager

Really?

Cos Wenger has ruled himself out of the England job and says it should be an Englishman

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/07/arsenal-manager-arsene-wenger-rules-himself-out-of-england-job/

[yoda]

Really?

Cos Wenger has ruled himself out of the England job and says it should be an Englishman

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/07/arsenal-manager-arsene-wenger-rules-himself-out-of-england-job/

Really,

you should read the articles 1st,

he said this in it

Before the international break, Wenger said it is possible he could "one day" manage England if he had no club commitments.

His contract with Arse finishes in the summer

[chaddyrovers]

I did read the article thanks Yoda but have you??

Wenger believe the England manager should be Englishman. Comments made on Bein Sports during the international break

I can see Wenger signing a new 2 years deal at Arsenal.

Press are already basically saying the job is Southgate.

[yoda]

I did read the article thanks Yoda but have you??

Wenger believe the England manager should be Englishman. Comments made on Bein Sports during the international break

I can see Wenger signing a new 2 years deal at Arsenal.

Press are already basically saying the job is Southgate.

I just quoted what he said from the article above, maybe you should read the post's better as well as the article

[Iceman]

At least a 3rd or half of these international are pointless/non competitive games. Boring to watch and not exciting games for People who attend

To you Maybe its pointless, but to the people of Malta, it was some effort.

[ABBEY]

What you quoted icers sounds like rovers but he'd never admit that.

[Gav]

So finally Wayne Rooney is dropped from the England team after years of abject performances and it takes a caretaker manager to actually have the balls to do it.

We all now know Allardyce was probably on some sort of 'incentive' to play him, but Roy should have known better.

Anyway its about time, and all this talk of 'best player of his generation' yes because its been a poor generation, he couldn't lace Shearers boots, now that lad was a really player.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

So finally Wayne Rooney is dropped from the England team after years of abject performances and it takes a caretaker manager to actually have the balls to do it.

We all now know Allardyce was probably on some sort of 'incentive' to play him, but Roy should have known better.

Anyway its about time, and all this talk of 'best player of his generation' yes because its been a poor generation, he couldn't lace Shearers boots, now that lad was a really player.

Do we? Wow, I didn't know that I knew that. But I'm sure its true, I've never had reason to doubt the phenomenon that if Gav "knows" something, everyone else automatically knows it. I assume this went on at every club he was at, taking incentives to play past-it players. He got really lucky to be honest that Salgado, Djorkaeff, Okocha, Campo etc turned out to be good seeing as he was only ever playing them for a backhander. Just shows how good he was that he could apparently play rubbish players for financial gain and still be miles better than the vast majority of managers out there.

Anyway, yes Rooney's gone now. This proves we have a shrewd and wise manager at the helm (just ignore relegating Middlesbrough) and are destined for glory now (after Sam already won the hardest game in the group with Rooney in the team, but just ignore that too). Watch out for that moment when we bomb at the World Cup though and some clown in our circus act of a media starts the line that maybe Rooney was disposed of too quickly and could still have done a job. It'll likely be easy to miss, the press never make a song and dance out of how they're a bunch of clueless, changeable muppets.

[JHRover]

Many in the press are hailing Southgate's decision to drop Rooney as demonstrating the bravery and conviction to make such a bold decision so soon into the job and evidence that he has the nasty streak required to do the job on a permanent basis.

I'd suggest the opposite is the case. I think its more likely that Southgate's decision to drop Rooney will ensure he doesn't get the job permanently. I believe there is immense pressure on the England manager to select certain players from certain clubs and those who have gone against that, or attempted to go against that, haven't lasted very long as manager.

The FA is ultimately a money making organisation and Rooney is their poster boy. He's by some distance their prized asset in terms of profile and global superstar reputation. They've no Gerrard, Beckham or Owen any more, Rooney is the last of them, and an England team without captain fantastic will not have gone down well in the bowels of Wembley with the people concerned about image, sponsorship and merchandise sales.

I expect Rooney's 'demotion' as one paper called it to be very much short term, otherwise Southgate's tenure as manager will be.

[47er]

What has Southgate ever done to deserve to be manager of England? Failed at xlub level, didn't set the world on fire with the under23's. Success where? Nowhere!

Just a bog standard FA shoe fit.

Won't rock the boat, will fail when it matters and that'll be the next 3 or 4 years wasted till they find another loser.

Can't be bothered with them and never watch England anymore.

[Gav]

Do we? Wow, I didn't know that I knew that. But I'm sure its true, I've never had reason to doubt the phenomenon that if Gav "knows" something, everyone else automatically knows it. I assume this went on at every club he was at, taking incentives to play past-it players. He got really lucky to be honest that Salgado, Djorkaeff, Okocha, Campo etc turned out to be good seeing as he was only ever playing them for a backhander. Just shows how good he was that he could apparently play rubbish players for financial gain and still be miles better than the vast majority of managers out there.

Every days a training day

You backed the wrong horse, accept it and move on.

Allardyce said in his now infamous meeting that "Its not like it was 20 or 30yrs ago" so we can assume its been happening at EVERY club he was at, so on our watch also.

[oldjamfan1]

What has Southgate ever done to deserve to be manager of England? Failed at xlub level, didn't set the world on fire with the under23's. Success where? Nowhere!

Just a bog standard FA shoe fit.

Won't rock the boat, will fail when it matters and that'll be the next 3 or 4 years wasted till they find another loser.

Can't be bothered with them and never watch England anymore.

He's just dropped the captain, so I'm not sure that bit of your argument stacks up. Agree that he has no track record to speak of though.

Many in the press are hailing Southgate's decision to drop Rooney as demonstrating the bravery and conviction to make such a bold decision so soon into the job and evidence that he has the nasty streak required to do the job on a permanent basis.

I'd suggest the opposite is the case. I think its more likely that Southgate's decision to drop Rooney will ensure he doesn't get the job permanently. I believe there is immense pressure on the England manager to select certain players from certain clubs and those who have gone against that, or attempted to go against that, haven't lasted very long as manager.

The FA is ultimately a money making organisation and Rooney is their poster boy. He's by some distance their prized asset in terms of profile and global superstar reputation. They've no Gerrard, Beckham or Owen any more, Rooney is the last of them, and an England team without captain fantastic will not have gone down well in the bowels of Wembley with the people concerned about image, sponsorship and merchandise sales.

I expect Rooney's 'demotion' as one paper called it to be very much short term, otherwise Southgate's tenure as manager will be.

Where is the evidence for this? Or even an example?

[sambo]

Every days a training day

You backed the wrong horse, accept it and move on.

Allardyce said in his now infamous meeting that "Its not like it was 20 or 30yrs ago" so we can assume its been happening at EVERY club he was at, so on our watch also.

Could also say you backed the wrong horse in advocating Allardyce being sacked as Rovers manager

[speeeeeeedie]

I believe there is immense pressure on the England manager to select certain players from certain clubs and those who have gone against that, or attempted to go against that, haven't lasted very long as manager.

The FA is ultimately a money making organisation and Rooney is their poster boy. He's by some distance their prized asset in terms of profile and global superstar reputation. They've no Gerrard, Beckham or Owen any more, Rooney is the last of them, and an England team without captain fantastic will not have gone down well in the bowels of Wembley with the people concerned about image, sponsorship and merchandise sales.

I expect Rooney's 'demotion' as one paper called it to be very much short term, otherwise Southgate's tenure as manager will be.

I can't agree with you. This line of thought was constantly thrown around by theno when he was on here. I disagreed with him then too.

If the FA really wanted to maximize profits it would do its best to ensure that England win tournaments. Do that and every man, woman, and dog will own an England kit. With your logic Beckham would still be in the squad.

Football managers like stability. Rooney has over 100 caps. No one else in the squad comes close. Managers need someone who understands what's going on, and can explain it to the newer players if need be. Now he's not guaranteed to start he is willing to stick around and impart his knowledge.

Rooney is a symptom of the Premier League. Clubs with buckets of cash with foreign owners looking to create some semblance of legitimacy, look to buy big money ready to play imports. This stops the development of younger predominantly English players. The irony of this is that the Premier League is an entity owned and managed by the FA.

Quite simply, too many English players aren't good enough. They are on the periphery at club level.

[JHRover]

He's just dropped the captain, so I'm not sure that bit of your argument stacks up. Agree that he has no track record to speak of though.

Where is the evidence for this? Or even an example?

No evidence, that's why I said I believe there is pressure from above rather than I know there is. Examples? Well, Capello's departure from the role on the eve of Euro 2012 wasn't down to football performances/results. As I recall it Capello resigned because the FA boys were trying to tell him who he could and couldn't pick (in this case John Terry).

There's quite a pattern over the last 20 years with England managers. Allardyce lost his job because of off the field behaviour. Capello left because of off the field issues. Eriksson left after 3 consecutive Quarter Finals with the FA themselves saying he was England's best manager after Alf Ramsey, heavily suspected that the News of the World allegations played a big part in him leaving. Keegan left because he couldn't handle it anymore. Hoddle left because of his comments in the media. Venables left because of his off the field dealings.

Infact there's only really McClaren and Hodgson in recent times who have left the job due to poor results. Its a poisoned chalice and the blame can't be put entirely at the feet of the British media. The FA control the situation and the blame for the shambolic state of English football should lie with them.

[oldjamfan1]

No evidence, that's why I said I believe there is pressure from above rather than I know there is. Examples? Well, Capello's departure from the role on the eve of Euro 2012 wasn't down to football performances/results. As I recall it Capello resigned because the FA boys were trying to tell him who he could and couldn't pick (in this case John Terry).

There's quite a pattern over the last 20 years with England managers. Allardyce lost his job because of off the field behaviour. Capello left because of off the field issues. Eriksson left after 3 consecutive Quarter Finals with the FA themselves saying he was England's best manager after Alf Ramsey, heavily suspected that the News of the World allegations played a big part in him leaving. Keegan left because he couldn't handle it anymore. Hoddle left because of his comments in the media. Venables left because of his off the field dealings.

Infact there's only really McClaren and Hodgson in recent times who have left the job due to poor results. Its a poisoned chalice and the blame can't be put entirely at the feet of the British media. The FA control the situation and the blame for the shambolic state of English football should lie with them.

There's a huge difference between leaving because of general 'off the field issues' and what you actually alleged though, is there not? Which, just to remind you, was I believe there is immense pressure on the England manager to select certain players from certain clubs and those who have gone against that, or attempted to go against that, haven't lasted very long as manager. None of the names you have subsequently mentioned lost their job because they wouldn't pick 'certain players from certain clubs' did they?

[JHRover]

There's a huge difference between leaving because of general 'off the field issues' and what you actually alleged though, is there not? Which, just to remind you, was I believe there is immense pressure on the England manager to select certain players from certain clubs and those who have gone against that, or attempted to go against that, haven't lasted very long as manager. None of the names you have subsequently mentioned lost their job because they wouldn't pick 'certain players from certain clubs' did they?

I don't know the exact reasons for most of the managers leaving. Suffice to say that the vast majority of managers have left the job for reasons beyond what results occur on the pitch.

I believe there is huge pressure both from within the FA and across the national media on the shoulders of the England manager to include certain players in their squad, and I believe this has been the case for the last 20 years. Just look at the national furore now Rooney has been dropped. He hasnt done the business for England for some time, at a tournament he hasn't done it ever, yet its taken this long to drop him under a manager with nothing to lose for it to happen, and the result is days of newspaper stories questioning the decision. Its no surprise previous managers haven't even entertained the prospect of dropping him. Whether managers have lost their jobs because of it, or instead suffered increased scrutiny/criticism from the media and the FA hierarchy, who knows. You might not believe that, but that's the conclusion I have come to from years and years of watching the same old faces from the same old teams have to do next to nothing to end up in the squad for major tournaments whilst others barely get a look in.

The point I'm also trying to make is that some players have been fast tracked into the international set up as a direct result of the club they play for. Example? David Bentley when he was at Rovers - in hindsight the pinnacle of his career - never played better anywhere else - yet never got a proper chance with England whilst at Rovers. As soon as he moved to Spurs for £18 million he was suddenly in the squad. Tim Sherwood - pinnacle of his career at Rovers, league winning captain, never played for England. Moves to Spurs and he's was in the fold.

Capello didn't lose his job, but decided he wasn't doing it anymore, because some bigwigs at the FA thought they were in a position to tell him who he should pick for his squad. They tried to prevent him playing John Terry who at the time was innocent of any wrongdoing. Its only natural to assume that if they can do that to a man of Capello's pedigree that they've done the same to other managers in relation to other players.

[Gav]

Could also say you backed the wrong horse in advocating Allardyce being sacked as Rovers manager

You could say that sambo, or you could just say perception is everything.

[oldjamfan1]

I don't know the exact reasons for most of the managers leaving. Suffice to say that the vast majority of managers have left the job for reasons beyond what results occur on the pitch.

I believe there is huge pressure both from within the FA and across the national media on the shoulders of the England manager to include certain players in their squad, and I believe this has been the case for the last 20 years. Just look at the national furore now Rooney has been dropped. He hasnt done the business for England for some time, at a tournament he hasn't done it ever, yet its taken this long to drop him under a manager with nothing to lose for it to happen, and the result is days of newspaper stories questioning the decision. Its no surprise previous managers haven't even entertained the prospect of dropping him. Whether managers have lost their jobs because of it, or instead suffered increased scrutiny/criticism from the media and the FA hierarchy, who knows. You might not believe that, but that's the conclusion I have come to from years and years of watching the same old faces from the same old teams have to do next to nothing to end up in the squad for major tournaments whilst others barely get a look in.

The point I'm also trying to make is that some players have been fast tracked into the international set up as a direct result of the club they play for. Example? David Bentley when he was at Rovers - in hindsight the pinnacle of his career - never played better anywhere else - yet never got a proper chance with England whilst at Rovers. As soon as he moved to Spurs for £18 million he was suddenly in the squad. Tim Sherwood - pinnacle of his career at Rovers, league winning captain, never played for England. Moves to Spurs and he's was in the fold.

Capello didn't lose his job, but decided he wasn't doing it anymore, because some bigwigs at the FA thought they were in a position to tell him who he should pick for his squad. They tried to prevent him playing John Terry who at the time was innocent of any wrongdoing. Its only natural to assume that if they can do that to a man of Capello's pedigree that they've done the same to other managers in relation to other players.

Players from big clubs getting favoured over those from smaller clubs has gone on since time immemorial mate, as has favouritism for 'star' names, going right back to the days of Bobby Charlton (and probably beyond that even). To me that is more a mentality thing rather than any sort of FA conspiracy. 'Big club syndrome' as opposed to 'same club syndrome' and it varies from club to club depending on the era but pick any from Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool etc.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Players from big clubs getting favoured over those from smaller clubs has gone on since time immemorial mate, as has favouritism for 'star' names, going right back to the days of Bobby Charlton (and probably beyond that even). To me that is more a mentality thing rather than any sort of FA conspiracy. 'Big club syndrome' as opposed to 'same club syndrome' and it varies from club to club depending on the era but pick any from Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool etc.

To be honest I'm not totally against that approach. Big club players have the advantage of playing in the Champions League and of also training with the very top foreign players. So they become more familiar with the playing style of foreign teams and also (something who's significance is really undervalued in my opinion) become familiar with foreign refs and how they influence the game.

Our most successful era of the modern age, under Eriksson, was the ultimate big club squad.

[chaddyrovers]

The teams are in! Here's how the #ThreeLions will line up against Slovenia: https://t.co/IVPw7ZPUu0

[perthblue02]

The teams are in! Here's how the #ThreeLions will line up against Slovenia: https://t.co/IVPw7ZPUu0

Ranked only one place above Trinidad and Tobago and equal with Burkina Faso, shouldn't be allowed to play on the same turf as the mighty three lions especially if they do not roll over and let England win by 9