[Archived] Terrorist Attack In Nice, France

[Audax]

Coalition strikes have aided the Kurds, some Kurdish forces at least certainly. Some of their victories would not be without the air support let alone weapons too.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28820509

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/us-ramps-up-iraq-air-strikes-kurdish-attack-dam

But the coalition should be doing so much more.

SDF, the Syrian Democratic Forces are likewise, a force of Kurds, Assyrians (Christians) and Arab Muslims supported by the Coalition. If one ever sees SDF; they are 'our guys'.

http://video.heraldsun.com.au/v/476837/SYRIA-Syrian-Democratic-Forces-Claim-Gains-Against-Islamic-State-in-Manbij-July-12

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/syrian-democratic-forces-besiege-manbij-091909819.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces

[Audax]

I assume the Russians don't pansy-foot around in their bombing strikes; so the Russians still are bombing a lot. One can't help but wonder why those airstrikes are not more effective and that is about 9 months of bombing.

The truth I suppose is, ISIS has been largely pushed back in Syria and Iraq;

Part of these attacks in the West I think are acts of desperation by ISIS since they have been losing territory over there.

[Baz]

Air strikes from drones are the pussy way out. The Kurds are killing ISIS and pushing them back, they're the real heroes here.

The air strikes are extremely helpful for the Kurds, they pin down the enemy and if they can't shift them, they call in the air strikes.

The thing from the Ross Kemp program the kurds need are better artillery weapons.

Surely that's something that can be provided, or you know left aroung unguarded near to Kurd positions?

The other things I found interesting where that a lot of the locals fighting for ISIS are because thats the only way for them to earn enough money to feed their families, that the biggest radicals are the foreign fighters(according to exISIS), and that since the ISIS territory has started to decrease, there has been far fewer foreigners coming to join.

The muslim Kurds winning the war quietly....

[Baz]

Immigrants are a good thing. But they must be vetted. They must be productive and not seek state assistance. We have enough native citizens with problems to provide for and we don't need to add to the rolls. They must want to Westernize, instead of us asking us to change our values and the way we do things to accommodate them. If they aren't willing to do those things, they are barbarians. They are the enemy. We should treat them accordingly. We certainly shouldn't be inviting them into our homes.

I don't disagree with this, but I don't believe that the wish to Westernise part means, as some people think, that they should abandon their own cultures and values, as long as they aren't contrary to ours they should be encouraged. Britain has a great history of integrating foreigners of all creeds and colours, and stirring it into our mixing pot of what we call being British - look at our cuisine for example Italians, Chinese, Indian etc...sports Mo Farrah, Daley Thompson.

[Amo]

Isn't it? They don't want to live in civilised and modern western countries, so they'd rather live in a more conservative Islamic state, shouldn't be anything stopping them living where they want to....

Many have left Europe for Syria & Iraq to join ISIS.

Amarillo- Our "fighting them over there" has been pretty limp-wristed and ineffective since Bush left the White House. Under Obama we've creeped back into the false assumption that law, incrementalism and proportional responses will deal with the enemy. It won't. Overwhelming force and brutality will deal with the enemy. They don't understand anything else.

A more aggressive stance only perpetuates the cycle of revenge, which is playing into ISIS's hands. And how do you propose we deal with the Muslim extremists living in Europe? We can't bomb them out of existence. I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that this is a complex conflict, Steve, which cannot be won by simply sending in more troops.

[Steve Moss]

Many have left Europe for Syria & Iraq to join ISIS.

A more aggressive stance only perpetuates the cycle of revenge, which is playing into ISIS's hands. And how do you propose we deal with the Muslim extremists living in Europe? We can't bomb them out of existence. I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that this is a complex conflict, Steve, which cannot be won by simply sending in more troops.

Those who leave should never be let back in.

Those non-citizens who are in but linked to extremists should be deported, without the necessity of trial. They are guests and a full-fledged judicial hearing should not be required to show a guest the door.

If citizens are linked to extremists, then they should be tried. If found guilty of knowingly giving even the slightest aid they are traitors. They should be either hung (if substantial aid is given) or, for lesser offenses, incarcerated for decades or, if they have a place to land, deported.

Police should be allowed to stop and search non-citizens and their homes without a warrant.

Police should be allowed to search religious buildings and schools without a warrant and should routinely do so.

All schools, even religious ones, should follow a state prescribed curriculum to include the history of the nation in which they reside, logic and rhetoric, and civics classes. These religious schools should be given heavy scrutiny. Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers.

Parents who enroll their children in such schools, or attend extremist religious institutions (i.e. kill the non-believer), should have their children removed from them. Then they should face the penalties associated with supporting the extremists. Ditto the religious and the teachers.

No state benefits should be provided to any immigrant until they become a citizen and even then they must have paid tax for a decade or more.

Neighborhoods which are "no-go" areas for law enforcement should be subjected to martial law. If even so much as a rock is thrown at a soldier, the army should be empowered to shoot.

That's the tip of the iceberg for those legal changes that should be considered.

[adopted scouser]

Those who leave should never be let back in.

Those non-citizens who are in but linked to extremists should be deported, without the necessity of trial. They are guests and a full-fledged judicial hearing should not be required to show a guest the door.

If citizens are linked to extremists, then they should be tried. If found guilty of knowingly giving even the slightest aid they are traitors. They should be either hung (if substantial aid is given) or, for lesser offenses, incarcerated for decades or, if they have a place to land, deported.

Police should be allowed to stop and search non-citizens and their homes without a warrant.

Police should be allowed to search religious buildings and schools without a warrant and should routinely do so.

All schools, even religious ones, should follow a state prescribed curriculum to include the history of the nation in which they reside, logic and rhetoric, and civics classes. These religious schools should be given heavy scrutiny. Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers.

Parents who enroll their children in such schools, or attend extremist religious institutions (i.e. kill the non-believer), should have their children removed from them. Then they should face the penalties associated with supporting the extremists. Ditto the religious and the teachers.

No state benefits should be provided to any immigrant until they become a citizen and even then they must have paid tax for a decade or more.

Neighborhoods which are "no-go" areas for law enforcement should be subjected to martial law. If even so much as a rock is thrown at a soldier, the army should be empowered to shoot.

That's the tip of the iceberg for those legal changes that should be considered.

Fantastic, Steve

[Paul]

Those who leave should never be let back in.

Those non-citizens who are in but linked to extremists should be deported, without the necessity of trial. They are guests and a full-fledged judicial hearing should not be required to show a guest the door.

If citizens are linked to extremists, then they should be tried. If found guilty of knowingly giving even the slightest aid they are traitors. They should be either hung (if substantial aid is given) or, for lesser offenses, incarcerated for decades or, if they have a place to land, deported.

Police should be allowed to stop and search non-citizens and their homes without a warrant.

Police should be allowed to search religious buildings and schools without a warrant and should routinely do so.

All schools, even religious ones, should follow a state prescribed curriculum to include the history of the nation in which they reside, logic and rhetoric, and civics classes. These religious schools should be given heavy scrutiny. Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers.

Parents who enroll their children in such schools, or attend extremist religious institutions (i.e. kill the non-believer), should have their children removed from them. Then they should face the penalties associated with supporting the extremists. Ditto the religious and the teachers.

No state benefits should be provided to any immigrant until they become a citizen and even then they must have paid tax for a decade or more.

Neighborhoods which are "no-go" areas for law enforcement should be subjected to martial law. If even so much as a rock is thrown at a soldier, the army should be empowered to shoot.

That's the tip of the iceberg for those legal changes that should be considered.

Views like these are as a much a part of the problem as the terrorist. You are fuelling the problem you want to see solved.

[MCMC1875]

.

[yoda]

You sound like Neville Chamberlain.

Good point,

make the MB a paperless environment

[ABBEY]

Views like these are as a much a part of the problem as the terrorist. You are fuelling the problem you want to see solved.

why?

Those who leave should never be let back in...correct

Those non-citizens who are in but linked to extremists should be deported, without the necessity of trial. They are guests and a full-fledged judicial hearing should not be required to show a guest the door...correct

If citizens are linked to extremists, then they should be tried. If found guilty of knowingly giving even the slightest aid they are traitors. They should be either hung (if substantial aid is given) or, for lesser offenses, incarcerated for decades or, if they have a place to land, deported...correct

Police should be allowed to stop and search non-citizens and their homes without a warrant...correct

Police should be allowed to search religious buildings and schools without a warrant and should routinely do so...correct

All schools, even religious ones, should follow a state prescribed curriculum to include the history of the nation in which they reside, logic and rhetoric, and civics classes. These religious schools should be given heavy scrutiny. Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers.correct

Parents who enroll their children in such schools, or attend extremist religious institutions (i.e. kill the non-believer), should have their children removed from them. Then they should face the penalties associated with supporting the extremists. Ditto the religious and the teachers.correct

No state benefits should be provided to any immigrant until they become a citizen and even then they must have paid tax for a decade or more.correct

Neighborhoods which are "no-go" areas for law enforcement should be subjected to martial law. If even so much as a rock is thrown at a soldier, the army should be empowered to shoot.

That's the tip of the iceberg for those legal changes that should be considered.

absolutely spot on...any mosque that has extreme links should be bulldozed.

[Paul]

ABBEY - you asked why and I started to write quite a detailed response. I then realised that what Steve proposes is summed up in one word - persecution. History tells us where that leads to.

The more people who support the solutions Steve proposes the deeper the divisions in society will be. The more we tolerate and leave unchallenged the increasingly hostile attitude to Muslims in general the greater the problem will become.

[ABBEY]

which parts dont you agree with?

[jim mk2]

Reports tomorrow that French investigators are casting doubts on the widespread view that the Nice atrocity was a terrorist attack and that killer has been "radicalised". Searches of his computer and home confirm anecdotal evidence of neighbours and people who knew him that while he was occasonally violent and showed signs of mental illness he was not interested in religion in any way. Uncomfortable reading for the French.

[Mike E]

Reports tomorrow that French investigators are casting doubts on the widespread view that the Nice atrocity was a terrorist attack and that killer has been "radicalised". Searches of his computer and home confirm anecdotal evidence of neighbours and people who knew him that while he was occasonally violent and showed signs of mental illness he was not interested in religion in any way. Uncomfortable reading for the French.

How? You think ISIS are religious?

They watch porn, eat pork, drink and gamble and reportedly have accepted bible verses when demanding quotes from the Qu'ran. Most importantly, they kill people. They aren't religious in any way, they're just @#/?.

So is this @#/?.

[Baz]

How? You think ISIS are religious?

They watch porn, eat pork, drink and gamble and reportedly have accepted bible verses when demanding quotes from the Qu'ran. Most importantly, they kill people. They aren't religious in any way, they're just @#/?.

So is this @#/?.

What are you talking about Mike?

[ultrablue]

Those who leave should never be let back in.

Those non-citizens who are in but linked to extremists should be deported, without the necessity of trial. They are guests and a full-fledged judicial hearing should not be required to show a guest the door.

If citizens are linked to extremists, then they should be tried. If found guilty of knowingly giving even the slightest aid they are traitors. They should be either hung (if substantial aid is given) or, for lesser offenses, incarcerated for decades or, if they have a place to land, deported.

Police should be allowed to stop and search non-citizens and their homes without a warrant.

Police should be allowed to search religious buildings and schools without a warrant and should routinely do so.

All schools, even religious ones, should follow a state prescribed curriculum to include the history of the nation in which they reside, logic and rhetoric, and civics classes. These religious schools should be given heavy scrutiny. Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers.

Parents who enroll their children in such schools, or attend extremist religious institutions (i.e. kill the non-believer), should have their children removed from them. Then they should face the penalties associated with supporting the extremists. Ditto the religious and the teachers.

No state benefits should be provided to any immigrant until they become a citizen and even then they must have paid tax for a decade or more.

Neighborhoods which are "no-go" areas for law enforcement should be subjected to martial law. If even so much as a rock is thrown at a soldier, the army should be empowered to shoot.

That's the tip of the iceberg for those legal changes that should be considered.

Chalk this one up to emotion Steve. A patriotic American such as yourself has surely read the 5th 6th and 14th amendment to the US constitution. No matter what nut jobs like Gingrich, Beck and Coulter say, non-citizens are given the same rights as citizens on American soil- except the right to vote and run for office.

[Mike E]

What are you talking about Mike?

I felt jim was making the point that this man wasn't religious, meaning he wasn't necessarily a terrorist. Therefore implying the French should feel uncomfortable in incorrectly labelling him as such.

I believe he was a terrorist, given he followed an instruction that ISIS had delivered the day before almost to the letter. Just because he didn't have a direct link, doesn't mean there isn't an indirect one.

[Paul]

which parts dont you agree with?

All of it.

Hower provided the ramifications of not allowing British passport holders to enter the country I could support not allowing people to return if they chose to leave the UK to support an organisation like IS.

I can also understand and agree with the quote below as teaching any form of hatred or indoctrination should not be allowed and I guess is covered by existing laws.

"Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers."

The problem with Steve's proposals is they are highly discriminatiory, aimed at a section of society on ethnic and religious grounds and would increase feelings of alienation amongst minorities. Treating people in this manner would give IS more evidence against the West as being evil.

We have improved our society by abolishing some of these proposals which would apply to everyone in the UK. You can't have one law for Muslims and another for the rest of us. Are you happy to be stopped and searched without cause, your house searched without justification?

Can you imagine the reaction to closing down entire areas of a town and giving the army a shoot on site policy? It's a ridiculous suggestion which would escalate violence to unparalleled levels. The notion of no go areas in the UK is nonsense. Plenty of areas in the UK where I wouldn't leave a car but none I wouldn't enter.

[ABBEY]

You disagree with ALL of it ? Amazing

So you would let returning Isis back in , you think mosques are above the law and shouldn't be searched, hatred allowed to be taught and yes I've no problem with being searched, I've nothing to hide . Have you ?

[ABBEY]

As for no go areas in Britain , do me a favour they exist in every town & city I'd guess . Look no further than the ranges , I bet you wouldn't venture there on your at night . It's most certainly a no go area for traffic wardens or whatever the pc name is now. If you drive through I will guarantee there will be at least 50 cars parked on double yellow . When I had to work there, there was 150 parked illegally and we went to the enforcement office and told them , they responded by saying that they won't book anyone because it causes to much trouble.

[adopted scouser]

As for no go areas in Britain , do me a favour they exist in every town & city I'd guess . Look no further than the ranges , I bet you wouldn't venture there on your at night . It's most certainly a no go area for traffic wardens or whatever the pc name is now. If you drive through I will guarantee there will be at least 50 cars parked on double yellow . When I had to work there, there was 150 parked illegally and we went to the enforcement office and told them , they responded by saying that they won't book anyone because it causes to much trouble.

Seen it myself Abbs but you'll be shouted down on here, truth hurts

[Amo]

Those who leave should never be let back in.

Those non-citizens who are in but linked to extremists should be deported, without the necessity of trial. They are guests and a full-fledged judicial hearing should not be required to show a guest the door.

If citizens are linked to extremists, then they should be tried. If found guilty of knowingly giving even the slightest aid they are traitors. They should be either hung (if substantial aid is given) or, for lesser offenses, incarcerated for decades or, if they have a place to land, deported.

Police should be allowed to stop and search non-citizens and their homes without a warrant.

Police should be allowed to search religious buildings and schools without a warrant and should routinely do so.

All schools, even religious ones, should follow a state prescribed curriculum to include the history of the nation in which they reside, logic and rhetoric, and civics classes. These religious schools should be given heavy scrutiny. Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers.

Parents who enroll their children in such schools, or attend extremist religious institutions (i.e. kill the non-believer), should have their children removed from them. Then they should face the penalties associated with supporting the extremists. Ditto the religious and the teachers.

No state benefits should be provided to any immigrant until they become a citizen and even then they must have paid tax for a decade or more.

Neighborhoods which are "no-go" areas for law enforcement should be subjected to martial law. If even so much as a rock is thrown at a soldier, the army should be empowered to shoot.

That's the tip of the iceberg for those legal changes that should be considered.

Is this before or after we finish plans for the Death Star?

[Paul]

You disagree with ALL of it ? Amazing

So you would let returning Isis back in , you think mosques are above the law and shouldn't be searched, hatred allowed to be taught and yes I've no problem with being searched, I've nothing to hide . Have you ?

Did you actually read it past the first three words? Lets look at your post above and the points I made in relation to them before you asked the questions. Looks very much to me you are ignoring what I wrote in favour of reading what you want to believe.

ABBEY: So you would let returning Isis back in?

My post: However provided the ramifications of not allowing British passport holders to enter the country I could support not allowing people to return if they chose to leave the UK to support an organisation like IS.

ABBEY: you think mosques are above the law and shouldn't be searched

My View: Not without a legal warrant as applies to all buildings in this country. Happy to see anywhere searched with a warrant that means mosques are included in the law

ABBEY: hatred allowed to be taught

My Post: I can also understand and agree with the quote below as teaching any form of hatred or indoctrination should not be allowed and I guess is covered by existing laws.

"Teaching anti-Western values should result in their shut down. Teaching the legal superiority of their religion, teaching that they can justifiably inflict violence on non-believers, etc., should result in the jailing of their teachers."

ABBEY: yes I've no problem with being searched, I've nothing to hide . Have you ?

No. Why would I have something to hide? Strange question which seems to me you're implying something. I won't though tolerate being searched or having my house searched illegally which both actions would be under current law.

The problem is ABBEY you don't take account of the ramifications of the laws Steve is calling for and you and others are supporting. If we are going to have such laws they have to apply to everyone. The implications are huge. People who promote and express anti-Muslim views should find themselves subject to the same laws.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

As for no go areas in Britain , do me a favour they exist in every town & city I'd guess . Look no further than the ranges , I bet you wouldn't venture there on your at night . It's most certainly a no go area for traffic wardens or whatever the pc name is now. If you drive through I will guarantee there will be at least 50 cars parked on double yellow . When I had to work there, there was 150 parked illegally and we went to the enforcement office and told them , they responded by saying that they won't book anyone because it causes to much trouble.

Knowing people who live/lived in those areas I can say first-hand it can be intimidating if you're white. Said it on here before but friends I know have been subject to low-scale harassment. They keep their heads down now and aren't bothered any more but it's a sad state of affairs when you have to avoid looking people in the eye and objecting to anti-social behaviour on your own street.

In terms of driving it's increasingly a law unto itself. I drive through regularly to work and to get into town at nights and it can be best approached as excellent training for your reactions and road assertiveness. At worst it's practically wacky races where anything goes. Drove through it last night and a car behind me overtook mine and a car in front then went straight through the red light we were queuing at. No wonder our insurance quotes are through the roof.