[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[tomphil]

It's bound to have an effect on the players despite what they or the manager says in public. It can't be good for moral when they look at Bolton and see us following that path. They're human at the end of the day and being in fear of maybe not getting your wages at the end of the month will play on the mind.

They see what's going on around them and inside the club and I would imagine it's often the main topic of conversation. Some won't give a stuff but some will. That's why I fear a severe lack of fight when things get tough this season and in it's place the same grim acceptance that the fans have.

[JBiz]

Rather than take the Venky shilling and be in charge of the sort of squad Coyle has, he walked. Respect.

All very noble but where did it leave us? Like PL, Coyle is another member of a cast where the director is to blame. For all the admiration, this choice sends us further backwards and, I for one (whilst understanding why he'd do that ((4th time)) the priority is always the club.

[DE.]

Has anybody called Lambert a legend in the making, a true great, or said they've loved him? No, these are just words designed to try and weaken an argument through non-existent criteria. No time for that.

All very noble but where did it leave us? Like PL, Coyle is another member of a cast where the director is to blame. For all the admiration, this choice sends us further backwards and, I for one (whilst understanding why he'd do that ((4th time)) the priority is always the club.

Venky's are the only ones sending us backwards. Placing any blame on Lambert is pointing in the wrong direction.

[punerover]

Has anybody called Lambert a legend in the making, a true great, or said they've loved him? No, these are just words designed to try and weaken an argument through non-existent criteria. No time for that.

Venky's are the only ones sending us backwards. Placing any blame on Lambert is pointing in the wrong direction.

Then by that logic Kean, Bowyer and Coyle should also be absolved of any blame what-so-ever?

[DE.]

Then by that logic Kean, Bowyer and Coyle should also be absolved of any blame what-so-ever?

All symptoms of the disease, not the actual disease. What did removing any of the above ultimately achieve? Nothing, because the real issue still remains unsolved.

[punerover]

All symptoms of the disease, not the actual disease. What did removing any of the above ultimately achieve? Nothing, because the real issue still remains unsolved.

Point taken. Agreed.

[JBiz]

Has anybody called Lambert a legend in the making, a true great, or said they've loved him? No, these are just words designed to try and weaken an argument through non-existent criteria. No time for that.

Venky's are the only ones sending us backwards. Placing any blame on Lambert is pointing in the wrong direction.

Haven't placed blame on Lambert for that?

I also only post opinion, so taking the first bit out of context to make some sort of argument is the only part of this discussion I feel people will have no time for.

Money or no money, managers have had success and with the backing and patience PL would've got, if he'd succeeded with absolutely no money, he'd have been a true rovers legend in my eyes. If he'd failed with no money, he had plenty of excuses in place.

Some will say he could smell the coffee, if that still leaves OUR club, the priority in all of this, worse off!

That's not blaming him for further decline either. Black and white etc..,

[DE.]

Some will say he could smell the coffee, if that still leaves OUR club, the priority in all of this, worse off!

Marginally at best. It certainly isn't anything worth getting worked up over. All anger should now only be focused in one direction.

[G Somerset Rover]

So, any transfer news?

[Kamy100]

My guess as to what is happening is that this is phase one of an exit strategy for Venky's. They are using the money (£30 million plus raised over the last 12 months or so) to finance the day to day running costs (which they have also streamlined to the bare minimum) and to pay off the loans that they have taken from State Bank Of India, once they get those loans down to a level which acceptable to them, they will then look to flog the club and get whatever they can for it using the money raised from the sale to further reduce the State Bank of India.

They aren't putting anymore serious money into the club and have instead ordered cutback in every facet of the club both on the playing and none playing side of things. Everything that they are committing to on the playing side is either cheap (free) or short term (loans), they are not interested in even spending small sums of money like they did with Bowyer who bought the likes of Marshall, Rudy, Cairney etc and turned profits on them. Every decision is short term.

[AggyBlue]

My guess as to what is happening is that this is phase one of an exit strategy for Venky's. They are using the money (£30 million plus raised over the last 12 months or so) to finance the day to day running costs (which they have also streamlined to the bare minimum) and to pay off the loans that they have taken from State Bank Of India, once they get those loans down to a level which acceptable to them, they will then look to flog the club and get whatever they can for it using the money raised from the sale to further reduce the State Bank of India.

They aren't putting anymore serious money into the club and have instead ordered cutback in every facet of the club both on the playing and none playing side of things. Everything that they are committing to on the playing side is either cheap (free) or short term (loans), they are not interested in even spending small sums of money like they did with Bowyer who bought the likes of Marshall, Rudy, Cairney etc and turned profits on them. Every decision is short term.

I'll get me party poppers in then

[Mercer]

My guess as to what is happening is that this is phase one of an exit strategy for Venky's. They are using the money (£30 million plus raised over the last 12 months or so) to finance the day to day running costs (which they have also streamlined to the bare minimum) and to pay off the loans that they have taken from State Bank Of India, once they get those loans down to a level which acceptable to them, they will then look to flog the club and get whatever they can for it using the money raised from the sale to further reduce the State Bank of India.

They aren't putting anymore serious money into the club and have instead ordered cutback in every facet of the club both on the playing and none playing side of things. Everything that they are committing to on the playing side is either cheap (free) or short term (loans), they are not interested in even spending small sums of money like they did with Bowyer who bought the likes of Marshall, Rudy, Cairney etc and turned profits on them. Every decision is short term.

Yěxǔ nǐ shì duì de.

[punerover]

My guess as to what is happening is that this is phase one of an exit strategy for Venky's. They are using the money (£30 million plus raised over the last 12 months or so) to finance the day to day running costs (which they have also streamlined to the bare minimum) and to pay off the loans that they have taken from State Bank Of India, once they get those loans down to a level which acceptable to them, they will then look to flog the club and get whatever they can for it using the money raised from the sale to further reduce the State Bank of India.

They aren't putting anymore serious money into the club and have instead ordered cutback in every facet of the club both on the playing and none playing side of things. Everything that they are committing to on the playing side is either cheap (free) or short term (loans), they are not interested in even spending small sums of money like they did with Bowyer who bought the likes of Marshall, Rudy, Cairney etc and turned profits on them. Every decision is short term.

So what you are saying is they let the 40 million or so go just to take more headaches of running the club and then finally get whatever they can? I am confused. They are cost cutting no doubt. But what makes you say they will sell ?

[mustard]

My guess as to what is happening is that this is phase one of an exit strategy for Venky's. They are using the money (£30 million plus raised over the last 12 months or so) to finance the day to day running costs (which they have also streamlined to the bare minimum) and to pay off the loans that they have taken from State Bank Of India, once they get those loans down to a level which acceptable to them, they will then look to flog the club and get whatever they can for it using the money raised from the sale to further reduce the State Bank of India.

They aren't putting anymore serious money into the club and have instead ordered cutback in every facet of the club both on the playing and none playing side of things. Everything that they are committing to on the playing side is either cheap (free) or short term (loans), they are not interested in even spending small sums of money like they did with Bowyer who bought the likes of Marshall, Rudy, Cairney etc and turned profits on them. Every decision is short term.

Isn't the majority of the debt against the club owed to themselves?

(edit: themselves = Venky's)

[JHRover]

Four options once the parachute money ran out:

1) Gamble on promotion by installing someone like Lambert and back him with money & succeed - get back to the Premier League and salvage this venture

2) Gamble on promotion by doing the above but fail to achieve it, remain in the Championship and lose another £30 odd million.

3) Sell everything and cut back everywhere to get the club into the best state possible for a sale by reducing the debt levels and wage bill

4) Sell everything and cut back everywhere to make life easier and more affordable for Venkys, but maintain their stubborn refusal to sell the club.

I really hope the option they have chosen is number 3, but I still deep down believe it is option 4.

Isn't the majority of the debt against the club owed to themselves?

In the accounts it says that about £80 million is owed to the parent company, whilst £20 million or so is owed to the Bank.

If the £25 million received from player sales is going towards the Bank debt then that should have been wiped out by now.

[JBiz]

Marginally at best. It certainly isn't anything worth getting worked up over. All anger should now only be focused in one direction.

Indeed it should. You'll get no disagreement from me there, the only shade of grey with that one is why are they still putting some money in if our turnover doesn't cover the current costs? Even with player sales, the debt is growing.(is it? this is just from looking at last few years as a precedent)

From a business point of view, it's never made sense. Hiring Owen Coyle only makes sense from the "smoke and mirrors" point of view, on that basis I can understand your view on him and his merits.

The other side of the coin, if we are on his back without fairly giving some element of chance - what do we expect will happen?

I often posted about the "after GB" equation but all we could've expected was a downgrade. We did get a semblance of hope in PL, and I think that (and it being dashed) plays more into PLs reputation factor, rather than his actual impact.

I'm again at the "what's next?" question with Rovers and it's frustrating to be still here! The blame and solution is all at the doors of ignorant idiots in a mansion guarded by hired goons on the other side of the world.

What do I expect will happen I asked after the comment on Coyle- well if he's protested against visibly (ie social media) so early - the outcome only has negative connotations and the main one is the way we are presented as fans.

One or two suggested Coyle was selected to wind up fans - I think the more likely conspiracy theory is Coyle was selected to deflect flak from those at the top.

[Dunnfc]

So what you are saying is they let the 40 million or so go just to take more headaches of running the club and then finally get whatever they can? I am confused. They are cost cutting no doubt. But what makes you say they will sell ?

Hopefully the vermin just go or we enter administration and get rid of them automatically.

Utter vile owners.

[punerover]

Four options once the parachute money ran out:

1) Gamble on promotion by installing someone like Lambert and back him with money & succeed - get back to the Premier League and salvage this venture

2) Gamble on promotion by doing the above but fail to achieve it, remain in the Championship and lose another £30 odd million.

3) Sell everything and cut back everywhere to get the club into the best state possible for a sale by reducing the debt levels and wage bill

4) Sell everything and cut back everywhere to make life easier and more affordable for Venkys, but maintain their stubborn refusal to sell the club.

I really hope the option they have chosen is number 3, but I still deep down believe it is option 4.

In the accounts it says that about £80 million is owed to the parent company, whilst £20 million or so is owed to the Bank.

If the £25 million received from player sales is going towards the Bank debt then that should have been wiped out by now.

It is option 4 for sure, else they would have taken the Seneca Offer.

[mustard]

Four options once the parachute money ran out:

1) Gamble on promotion by installing someone like Lambert and back him with money & succeed - get back to the Premier League and salvage this venture

2) Gamble on promotion by doing the above but fail to achieve it, remain in the Championship and lose another £30 odd million.

3) Sell everything and cut back everywhere to get the club into the best state possible for a sale by reducing the debt levels and wage bill

4) Sell everything and cut back everywhere to make life easier and more affordable for Venkys, but maintain their stubborn refusal to sell the club.

I really hope the option they have chosen is number 3, but I still deep down believe it is option 4.

In the accounts it says that about £80 million is owed to the parent company, whilst £20 million or so is owed to the Bank.

If the £25 million received from player sales is going towards the Bank debt then that should have been wiped out by now.

Yeah I thought this to be the case.

One or two suggested Coyle was selected to wind up fans - I think the more likely conspiracy theory is Coyle was selected to deflect flak from those at the top.

Wouldn't be remotely surprised.

[Kamy100]

So what you are saying is they let the 40 million or so go just to take more headaches of running the club and then finally get whatever they can? I am confused. They are cost cutting no doubt. But what makes you say they will sell ?

I think that they are being backed into a corner, this year they have got away with it because we had some players that they were able to sell, I doubt that they will have that next year. So they have this window of opportunity to either invest in the team and pray that we go up (which clearly they aren't looking to do) or look to use the money to clear whatever debt that they can and then get out. Holding on and doing nothing is not an option as next year in the absence of players sales they would have to finance the club themselves or let us going into administration. I could be totally wrong of course.

Isn't the majority of the debt against the club owed to themselves?

(edit: themselves = Venky's)

That is true but the money that they gave to the club is money that they have borrowed from state bank of India and Venky's will have to pay that back.

[Mercer]

Make no mistake, financially, Rovers are desperate.

I would estimate that our normal operating turnover is now in the region of £13 to £14m - remember, parachute payments are finished and season ticket sales and commercial income streams have fallen sharply.

The last accounts for year ended June 2015 had wages £26.9m, other op. costs £11.6m and interest payable £0.9m, making a total of £39.4m.

Yes, we know wages have been reduced but notwithstanding that, this is one big circle that can't be squared.

Nicko spoke on radio last night about a £15m wages/transfer budget - that cost alone is almost certainly higher than our turnover !

Our last accounts showed that creditors outside our parent company totalled £33m and since then, we've most likely lost at least another £15m. I think our transfer receipts have disappeared down one dirty, big black hole.

[DE.]

Indeed it should. You'll get no disagreement from me there, the only shade of grey with that one is why are they still putting some money in if our turnover doesn't cover the current costs? Even with player sales, the debt is growing.(is it? this is just from looking at last few years as a precedent)

From a business point of view, it's never made sense. Hiring Owen Coyle only makes sense from the "smoke and mirrors" point of view, on that basis I can understand your view on him and his merits.

The other side of the coin, if we are on his back without fairly giving some element of chance - what do we expect will happen?

I often posted about the "after GB" equation but all we could've expected was a downgrade. We did get a semblance of hope in PL, and I think that (and it being dashed) plays more into PLs reputation factor, rather than his actual impact.

I'm again at the "what's next?" question with Rovers and it's frustrating to be still here! The blame and solution is all at the doors of ignorant idiots in a mansion guarded by hired goons on the other side of the world.

What do I expect will happen I asked after the comment on Coyle- well if he's protested against visibly (ie social media) so early - the outcome only has negative connotations and the main one is the way we are presented as fans.

One or two suggested Coyle was selected to wind up fans - I think the more likely conspiracy theory is Coyle was selected to deflect flak from those at the top.

Tragically, we're now at the point where we might as well have kept Bowyer. His sacking, in hindsight, makes zero sense.

[Lancaster Rover]

Hopefully the vermin just go or we enter administration and get rid of them automatically.

Utter vile owners.

Entering admin wouldn't guarantee getting rid, what if they were to say buy it back through one of their many shell companies/companies or an intimidiary?

[47er]

All very noble but where did it leave us? Like PL, Coyle is another member of a cast where the director is to blame. For all the admiration, this choice sends us further backwards and, I for one (whilst understanding why he'd do that ((4th time)) the priority is always the club.

I'm not quite sure what you expected. He wasn't allowed to do the job promised him so he walked.

He didn't con the fans by carrying on collecting a salary for doing what he knew could not work successfully and, in the end, he owed us nothing. Hie contract was with Venkys not us.

But he did save us from relegation imo.

[Dunnfc]

Entering admin wouldn't guarantee getting rid, what if they were to say buy it back through one of their many shell companies/companies or an intimidiary?

The chance of it getting through would be ultra slim, obviously i'd imagine any administrator would issue NDA's to interested parties to confirm buyers identities whilst the issue of whether the FL would rubber stamp it i.e like at Forest and Leeds would remain.

The fact we would be in an administration would rid club of the current owners and vice versa until a buyer would be found. The director of the club would be the administrator i.e someone like Trevor Birch or Andrew Andronikou.

Shame we are not behind with the VAT and PAYE as HMRC are watching clubs like a hawk at the minute and issue WUP's easily.