[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[JBiz]

The Coyle who got Burnley promoted with a lesser team ?

No, Nadine Coyle the soul singer.

Are we referring to pre season giving coyle a chance? Just say it if you are. We are at 5th game in tonight and based on the horrific performances I've seen so far, I'd rightly pay the cab from Coral island for Gaz.

[RockinRover]

Gary Bowyer should have never been sacked unless the club actually planned on making a break for the Premier League.

As they're clearly not doing so, Bowyer would have been perfect to solidify us in the Championship whereas Coyle is only leading us in one direction.

[tomphil]

No, Nadine Coyle the soul singer.

Are we referring to pre season giving coyle a chance? Just say it if you are. We are at 5th game in tonight and based on the horrific performances I've seen so far, I'd rightly pay the cab from Coral island for Gaz.

Whatever happened to her ?

Anyway no what I'm saying is this team is considerably weaker than it was at this stage last season where it was struggling badly anyway under Bowyer. An absolute fact !

Whilst I'd prefer him and his gang instead of this bozo and his collection I think things would be equally as difficult on the pitch as they are now.

[Commondore]

Tugay was a genius. A top flight player. He is one of the few who could get away with being a luxury player because he was not expected to get around the pitch.

But he has nothing to do with a debate about attacking Championship midfielders. We have had them - and you are right to include Cairney and probably Marshall. Neither were deployed in the right way with Marshall forced to play at full back. Much of this was to do with a policy of bringing in players because they were available and not because they were what we needed. This meant players playing out of position and contrary to their strengths because of a need to plug holes. Quantity was preferred over quality. It's entirely possible there was a requirement to buy low and sell high but the approach taken when we DID have attacking players was reprehensible.

To be fair, it's not like Cairney has set the world alight at Fulham either. Good individual ability, but he never seems to be able to nail down a position nor lift the teams he's playing for.

[Athlete]

To be fair, it's not like Cairney has set the world alight at Fulham either. Good individual ability, but he never seems to be able to nail down a position nor lift the teams he's playing for.

He seems to be having a decent early season so far

Anyhow thought this was the transfer thread well it's apparent there's no transfers incoming....

[tomphil]

Gary Bowyer should have never been sacked unless the club actually planned on making a break for the Premier League.

As they're clearly not doing so, Bowyer would have been perfect to solidify us in the Championship whereas Coyle is only leading us in one direction.

Totally agree with the first bit but you have to remember where we where this time last season. GB would only have kept us stable in midtable if we'd got out of embargo and let him continue to operate as he did before that.

[Tom]

No, Nadine Coyle the soul singer.

Are we referring to pre season giving coyle a chance? Just say it if you are. We are at 5th game in tonight and based on the horrific performances I've seen so far, I'd rightly pay the cab from Coral island for Gaz.

Surely it would be more cost efficient to drive?

[Rover_Shaun]

Ah good old Bowyer. How we miss holding onto draws at home in vital games *

Just for JBiz

[Iceman]

To be fair, it's not like Cairney has set the world alight at Fulham either. Good individual ability, but he never seems to be able to nail down a position nor lift the teams he's playing for.

again, give him the ball, he is talented enough to know what to do with it. He will make mistakes, he will fluff 8 out of 10 shots, but he will probably score a couple of great goals. That is all you need from him really. Players like that are very dangerous to have, as long as you have 9 other players in and around him to do some of his work, or clean up his mistakes. You look past that most times

[Stuart]

Totally agree with the first bit but you have to remember where we where this time last season. GB would only have kept us stable in midtable if we'd got out of embargo and let him continue to operate as he did before that.

Agreed. Bowyer was awful once he had to work with no money, but who wouldn't be? Few managers can work with a negative budget and a wages only policy. Any manager who does is only here for one reason (see Lambert's reasons for leaving and reverse them).

Bowyer leaving when he did has preserved his reputation when it was taking a big hit. He had already turned on supporters but many are quick to put on the rose-coloured specs and forget. He can take some credit for persevering with Hanley and Duffy but without Rhodes' goals he'd have taken us down prior to that. I don't dislike the guy, he just wasn't the right man for the time. Ironically he might have been better after Lambert. But again this is the CV of a caretaker. Steady the ship but can't take it forward.

[JHRover]

I think Bowyer was the perfect man for the time. Lets remember where we were in the summer of 2013 having just gone through the trail of Kean-Black-Berg-Bowyer-Appleton-Bowyer all in one season and avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth.

Had Bowyer not been up to the job at the back end of that season, or had they overlooked him and appointed another woeful external candidate in the mould of Berg or Appleton, then there's a very real prospect we'd have gone down to League One 3 years ago.

Venkys 'got lucky' in a way with Bowyer, they had failed every time they had a responsibility to find an external candidate to be manager, and by process of elimination they stumbled into giving Bowyer the job. The result for them was that it appeased the fanbase for 2 years and Bowyer's transfer dealings are continuing to make them money. Cairney for £4 million, Gestede for £6 million, King for £1 million+, Marshall and Duffy the next ones on their way this summer.

Some people might say that had we gone down to League One in 2013 or not developed such a valuable batch of players under Bowyer's watch that they are cashing in on today then perhaps Venkys departure or 'end game' might have arrived a few years earlier. As it is when we go down later this season and the players run out to sell then we might find out what the 'plan' is from India/Brunei.

Alternatively Bowyer's good work in the transfer market might have saved this club in the short term from Armageddon on and off the field, he brought stability, professionalism, pride, decency and passion back to the club after the chaos before he got the job and which since he left has returned.

Infact, Bowyer's spell as manager was the only time in the last 6 years that we have operated like a proper club, behaved professionally and for a while the focus of the fans was on the football rather than the dodgy folk in Asia. Now he's gone the vacuum has returned.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I think Bowyer was the perfect man for the time. Lets remember where we were in the summer of 2013 having just gone through the trail of Kean-Black-Berg-Bowyer-Appleton-Bowyer all in one season and avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth.

Had Bowyer not been up to the job at the back end of that season, or had they overlooked him and appointed another woeful external candidate in the mould of Berg or Appleton, then there's a very real prospect we'd have gone down to League One 3 years ago.

Venkys 'got lucky' in a way with Bowyer, they had failed every time they had a responsibility to find an external candidate to be manager, and by process of elimination they stumbled into giving Bowyer the job. The result for them was that it appeased the fanbase for 2 years and Bowyer's transfer dealings are continuing to make them money. Cairney for £4 million, Gestede for £6 million, King for £1 million+, Marshall and Duffy the next ones on their way this summer.

Some people might say that had we gone down to League One in 2013 or not developed such a valuable batch of players under Bowyer's watch that they are cashing in on today then perhaps Venkys departure or 'end game' might have arrived a few years earlier. As it is when we go down later this season and the players run out to sell then we might find out what the 'plan' is from India/Brunei.

Alternatively Bowyer's good work in the transfer market might have saved this club in the short term from Armageddon on and off the field, he brought stability, professionalism, pride, decency and passion back to the club after the chaos before he got the job and which since he left has returned.

Infact, Bowyer's spell as manager was the only time in the last 6 years that we have operated like a proper club, behaved professionally and for a while the focus of the fans was on the football rather than the dodgy folk in Asia. Now he's gone the vacuum has returned.

Mmmm. Whilst you present a decent argument, Bowyer had the advantage of the parachute payments and players like Rhodes and Gestede upfront scoring 40+ goals per season. The alternative view being he wasted our finances and best chance of promotion after Kean, achieving only mid-table mediocrity. And he was certainly well on the way to taking us down last season with 3 wins from the first 16 matches played.

Steady away as others have said. But no more than that.

[JHRover]

Mmmm. Whilst you present a decent argument, Bowyer had the advantage of the parachute payments and players like Rhodes and Gestede upfront scoring 40+ goals per season. The alternative view being he wasted our finances and best chance of promotion after Kean, achieving only mid-table mediocrity. And he was certainly well on the way to taking us down last season with 3 wins from the first 16 matches played.

Steady away as others have said. But no more than that.

There's different ways of looking at it. If we were a normal club then I would agree that appointing a rookie manager when we had the benefit of financial strength through parachute payments would have been a huge gamble and we would have been far better going for a Warnock or McCarthy type.

But then we have to place this in the context of Venkys ownership. They were never going to appoint a big name proven manager, the only time they have done in 6 years saw him quit after a few months because he couldn't work for them. The club is destined to fail because of the owners, so for Bowyer to deliver such normality, stability and consecutive top 10 finishes despite the clowns above him wrecking the club could be interpreted as doing much better than those before him and those after him.

There's no right or wrong answer to it really.

[Stuart]

It's a moot argument but we needed promotion whilst we still had parachute payments. It was NOT the time for a novice to learn his trade / tread water. That's not Bowyer's fault, it's Venkys' but he did very well out of us and he didn't deliver what was needed. It wasn't stability (as legend has it) it was to quickly yo-yo.

Burnley have shown that a modest Lancashire club can use parachute payments well if they are masters of their own destiny. Yes, they got lucky that Howe got homesick and Watford inexplicably potted Dyche but we have been prevented from doing anything near similar due to the lack of decision making authority being delegates from the owners to a credible board.

We had absolute chaos followed by absolute fear to change when things stagnated.

[chaddyrovers]

Yet we insisted playing Rhodes - mental.

Gestede

King Dunn Judge

Crazy.

Still think we should Gestede and King up front together alot more than we did.

I thought Bowyer was scared to drop Rhodes too much incase the owners got rid of him.

Did Bowyer want to agree to sell Rhodes to Hull when they bidded 12 mil?

Bowyer would have ideal man for this situation we are in.

[roversfan99]

The 20 goal a season striker definitely needed dropping.

[Iceman]

Mmmm. Whilst you present a decent argument, Bowyer had the advantage of the parachute payments and players like Rhodes and Gestede upfront scoring 40+ goals per season. The alternative view being he wasted our finances and best chance of promotion after Kean, achieving only mid-table mediocrity. And he was certainly well on the way to taking us down last season with 3 wins from the first 16 matches played.

Steady away as others have said. But no more than that.

When we came down, and had the parachute money to play with, the players we signed in the last 6 years have been shocking imo. If i look at some of the clubs, they brought in some terrific players on the cheap, and yet we couldnt do similar. Up until today, teams are signing players or interested in players like Akpom, Pareirra, Wilson, Che Adams etc and we scrambling around at players like Hendrie, Feeney etc

[chaddyrovers]

The 20 goal a season striker definitely needed dropping.

Havent that type of striker didnt get us promote tho did it. And im not blaming Rhodes at all but just wonder if a different type of strikers could have done.

Look at the way we played with Gestede and King against Stoke ripped them apart. Could they have been our Vokes and Gray? We never know now.

[Athlete]

Havent that type of striker didnt get us promote tho did it. And im not blaming Rhodes at all but just wonder if a different type of strikers could have done.

Look at the way we played with Gestede and King against Stoke ripped them apart. Could they have been our Vokes and Gray? We never know now.

Unfortunately that ship has sailed a decent manager would of took that side up but it was promotion even on venkys radar

[ABBEY]

Havent that type of striker didnt get us promote tho did it. And im not blaming Rhodes at all but just wonder if a different type of strikers could have done.

Look at the way we played with Gestede and King against Stoke ripped them apart. Could they have been our Vokes and Gray? We never know now.

Aye it was all Rhodes fault the amazing talent of joking couldn't replace him , because King has set the prem on fire these last 15 months.

[alexanders]

Aye it was all Rhodes fault the amazing talent of joking couldn't replace him , because King has set the prem on fire these last 15 months.

He hasnt, but he has been a good player for Bournemouth. However he doesnt suit the role as striker. He isnt "smart" enough.

[Jock]

Can we get back to the dross FKW is looking at. Are we linked with midgets or pensioners today ?

[JHRover]

When we came down, and had the parachute money to play with, the players we signed in the last 6 years have been shocking imo. If i look at some of the clubs, they brought in some terrific players on the cheap, and yet we couldnt do similar. Up until today, teams are signing players or interested in players like Akpom, Pareirra, Wilson, Che Adams etc and we scrambling around at players like Hendrie, Feeney etc

Birmingham have very little money. Rowett made it known last year that he wasn't even able to offer the wages of £10,000 per week that we could whilst under the embargo. Yet the difference is that when they sell a player they reinvest some of the proceeds into new players who are likely to improve and grow in value. Che Adams fits that mould. Looks like our lot have given up even on that plan and are looking purely to the academy to generate funds. It won't work.

They'll probably be rubbing their hands that Scott Wharton has managed to play a couple of games for the first team. Give it 12 months and he'll be on the conveyor belt like Duffy and Marshall are - he'll be advertised by the club/manager as being for sale and they'll look to make a quick £2 million on him.

[JHRover]

Nixon now saying that Brighton are back in for Duffy, and that Ba wants to come. 'Few other things on too'.

As predicted we will only be able to sign Ba once Duffy is sold. Presumably Rovers have grown increasingly concerned they won't be able to sell Duffy this window, with rumours of Brighton being after a Premier League loan CB instead, so Rovers will have dropped their asking price to get Duffy out of the club and pocket a million or two before the window shuts.

'Few other things on too' presumably refers to Coyle lining up players that Venkys won't allow him to sign and continued attempts to try and find a club to buy Ben Marshall for a couple of million quid.

[darwenfish]

To be honest the performances of Wharton have left me more open to Duffy moving on. Although Duffy is a good player he wont be signing a new contract and given our likely relegation wont be staying around.

If we move him on to ease the deficit before relegation and hopefully future takeover I would be satisfied with that.