[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[blueboy3333]

I repeat again Coyle is getting let off very lightly here at this time. One point from 15? Zillions conceded already. I don't care if we are owned by martian's from the deepest voids in space, that is absolutely pathetic and him getting off scott free, simply not on.

Yeah I know, nothing else matters but VenkysOut. But I personally don't subscribe to the theory that it is inevitable we will go down this season as there is some right old tosh at this level with little hope, aspiration, or dollars.

A further relegation would be another nail in our coffin, damaging our finances and supporter base further, with absolutely no guarantee that the Vankers would leave. We are playing catch up already this season and unless Coyle gives a monkey at some stage about the goals we are conceeding we are in big trouble.

Agree completely. He's a dreadful manager and the pressure should be racheted up on him. Doing so again highlights what dreadful decisions the owners make. Win-win.

As for our team, there's enough there to avoid relegation. A good manager would have us mid-table. Mick McCarthy certainly would. The constant player churn doesn't help though. We've signed 18 players since January, with more to come.

[blueboy3333]

Anyway, Mick McCarthy would certainly liven the place up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/mick-mccarthy-stick-to-death-with-ipswich-supporters-whose-opinion-of-him-fluctuates-like-a-fiddler-a7203741.html

[JBiz]

The club is not going to see any of the 10 million quid, it is going to be trousered by The Rao's and agents

We've signed 10 players and that's going to be a at least a million pal - loan fees, wages etc nowhere near what we've brought in mind - but I wouldn't expect that to happen when we are in such debt, record low turnover, no parachutes and an owner likely to be wanting to find a way out!

This raos trousering money, they've "loaned" the club 100m+

I agree on agents - the game is bent but why quote such a long post to reply with something nobody can evidence? (Rao's making money)

It doesn't make sense to me and it won't change with such weak discussion. They've lost millions, they've lost face and in turn lost business. I think I know who benefitted the most out of this, and there is actually evidence to go with that!.. documents...

The original point stands though - don't buy into Coyles crap or other fans "the squads not good enough" stuff because we have enough to be better than 4/5 teams. We've still the advantages of good facilities, sport science, fitness experts, nutritional, a youth academy giving us players - there's plenty in this division without that.

Put in the transfer business, I actually think (admittedly early days, especially Hoban/Williams) that the signings are good enough - bar feeney so far. Hendrie has had stick but he's an improvement on Henley at LB (not hard..)

Stokes could be useful, we know Graham is an asset at this level, Byrne looks clever (and if deployed in a 3 man rather than 2 would be stronger!) Greer is literally a god send because if he'd not been we'd be in even worse ways!

Gallagher could be useful, especially late on - attacking or defending because from what I've seen he really presses and tracks (one of the only ones doing it!)

Just think if we could add a right full back, experienced CM and a pacy striker to that? If Williams and Hoban keep it up - that's a far better squad than a relegation battle and with the right scouting could cost next to sod all. Conway - our best player at current IMO cost 100k from a prem reserve team. With no more emergency loans (between Windows? Is that true or did I imagine?) I can see more business happening this week.

I don't buy the relagation certainties. We started the summer light granted, and it takes a while to bed in signings, but I expected to find myself resigned to similar expectations - after watching these players this season it's evident that the tactics and reactive decisions are going to hold this lot back!

Not their quality..,

Edit - original quote edited to include my post for some bizarre reason?

[yoda]

We've signed 10 players and that's going to be a at least a million pal - loan fees, wages etc nowhere near what we've brought in mind - but I wouldn't expect that to happen when we are in such debt, record low turnover, no parachutes and an owner likely to be wanting to find a way out!

This raos trousering money, they've "loaned" the club 100m+

I agree on agents - the game is bent but why quote such a long post to reply with something nobody can evidence? (Rao's making money)

It doesn't make sense to me and it won't change with such weak discussion. They've lost millions, they've lost face and in turn lost business. I think I know who benefitted the most out of this, and there is actually evidence to go with that!.. documents...

The original point stands though - don't buy into Coyles crap or other fans "the squads not good enough" stuff because we have enough to be better than 4/5 teams. We've still the advantages of good facilities, sport science, fitness experts, nutritional, a youth academy giving us players - there's plenty in this division without that.

Put in the transfer business, I actually think (admittedly early days, especially Hoban/Williams) that the signings are good enough - bar feeney so far. Hendrie has had stick but he's an improvement on Henley at LB (not hard..)

Stokes could be useful, we know Graham is an asset at this level, Byrne looks clever (and if deployed in a 3 man rather than 2 would be stronger!) Greer is literally a god send because if he'd not been we'd be in even worse ways!

Gallagher could be useful, especially late on - attacking or defending because from what I've seen he really presses and tracks (one of the only ones doing it!)

Just think if we could add a right full back, experienced CM and a pacy striker to that? If Williams and Hoban keep it up - that's a far better squad than a relegation battle and with the right scouting could cost next to sod all. Conway - our best player at current IMO cost 100k from a prem reserve team. With no more emergency loans (between Windows? Is that true or did I imagine?) I can see more business happening this week.

I don't buy the relagation certainties. We started the summer light granted, and it takes a while to bed in signings, but I expected to find myself resigned to similar expectations - after watching these players this season it's evident that the tactics and reactive decisions are going to hold this lot back!

Not their quality..,

Jeez,

Just add up the player sales since the Rao's trapped up, then add on the revenue through the club since they trapped up.

Then take away players bought.

Sort of a GP excersize and see what the figure is.

[onlyonejackwalker]

We've signed 10 players and that's going to be a at least a million pal - loan fees, wages etc nowhere near what we've brought in mind - but I wouldn't expect that to happen when we are in such debt, record low turnover, no parachutes and an owner likely to be wanting to find a way out!

This raos trousering money, they've "loaned" the club 100m+

I agree on agents - the game is bent but why quote such a long post to reply with something nobody can evidence? (Rao's making money)

It doesn't make sense to me and it won't change with such weak discussion. They've lost millions, they've lost face and in turn lost business. I think I know who benefitted the most out of this, and there is actually evidence to go with that!.. documents...

The original point stands though - don't buy into Coyles crap or other fans "the squads not good enough" stuff because we have enough to be better than 4/5 teams. We've still the advantages of good facilities, sport science, fitness experts, nutritional, a youth academy giving us players - there's plenty in this division without that.

Put in the transfer business, I actually think (admittedly early days, especially Hoban/Williams) that the signings are good enough - bar feeney so far. Hendrie has had stick but he's an improvement on Henley at LB (not hard..)

Stokes could be useful, we know Graham is an asset at this level, Byrne looks clever (and if deployed in a 3 man rather than 2 would be stronger!) Greer is literally a god send because if he'd not been we'd be in even worse ways!

Gallagher could be useful, especially late on - attacking or defending because from what I've seen he really presses and tracks (one of the only ones doing it!)

Just think if we could add a right full back, experienced CM and a pacy striker to that? If Williams and Hoban keep it up - that's a far better squad than a relegation battle and with the right scouting could cost next to sod all. Conway - our best player at current IMO cost 100k from a prem reserve team. With no more emergency loans (between Windows? Is that true or did I imagine?) I can see more business happening this week.

I don't buy the relagation certainties. We started the summer light granted, and it takes a while to bed in signings, but I expected to find myself resigned to similar expectations - after watching these players this season it's evident that the tactics and reactive decisions are going to hold this lot back!

Not their quality..,

Me neither. Lost in the anger regarding the Venky's, Coyle has seemingly got a free ride from fans to take us down without even a whimper.

I keep reading Coyle is not an issue, don't focus on Owen Coyle. But he is the manager of our club whether we like it or not and needs to start justifying his huge salary. As manager, he is also responsible for those under his guidance and their huge salaries as well. He is probably directly managing or involved in 10-15 million of yearly outlay and absolving him of any responsibility or accountability the perfect scenario for the joker and his cronies at this time.

[DE.]

Anyway, Mick McCarthy would certainly liven the place up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/mick-mccarthy-stick-to-death-with-ipswich-supporters-whose-opinion-of-him-fluctuates-like-a-fiddler-a7203741.html

he has a fair point. Ipswich fans really struggle to grasp the reality of their situation. A poor squad, an absent owner, no money and little chance of anything changing in the future. Once Mick goes they will realise he's actually doing a fantastic job in the circumstances. By then they'll be sliding into League One, though.

If there's one thing Evans has done right at Ipswich, it's appointing a good manager/backroom staff and setting up a professional boardroom structure. That's basically the difference between them and us at this moment in time.

[Gav]

Agree completely. He's a dreadful manager and the pressure should be racheted up on him. Doing so again highlights what dreadful decisions the owners make. Win-win.

As for our team, there's enough there to avoid relegation. A good manager would have us mid-table. Mick McCarthy certainly would. The constant player churn doesn't help though. We've signed 18 players since January, with more to come.

This has been a problem for a while now in terms of posters perceptions as to how good or bad the team actually is.

This side isn't good enough to finish mid-table in my opinion, its full of league 1 standard players and a few inexperienced loans and academy kids, not good enough to finish mid-table, not good enough to stay in this league over a season.

Once fans come to terms with that, the focus can be firmly put on making the owners lives uncomfortable, because Colyle as manager or not, this is always going to end badly, changing managers will just dampen down momentum once again in the hope the new manager can work miracles, he can't and won't.

We need to stay focused on Venkys.

#venkysout

Me neither. Lost in the anger regarding the Venky's, Coyle has seemingly got a free ride from fans to take us down without even a whimper.

I keep reading Coyle is not an issue, don't focus on Owen Coyle. But he is the manager of our club whether we like it or not and needs to start justifying his huge salary. As manager, he is also responsible for those under his guidance and their huge salaries as well. He is probably directly managing or involved in 10-15 million of yearly outlay and absolving him of any responsibility or accountability the perfect scenario for the joker and his cronies at this time.

Its time people looked at the bigger picture, Coyle and any manager that comes in is a side show, this is a highly unusual set of circumstances otherwise I'd agree with you ojw.

The situation will not improve with Venkys at the helm, simple as that, so time hammering the manager is wasted time, a distraction, just gives the club/media a reason to blame the fans.

[tomphil]

It's a similar scenario to when Kean stepped in and all the wheeling and dealing started which eventually led to relegation. Someone somewhere is making money out of this and has been all along imo.

The last drops are being squeezed out now then if we drop or not more youth and loans will be bunged in next season. Poss with the idea that a new team will grow and be worth a few quid to sell in a few more seasons along similar lines again. Horrifying thought as it won't matter what division we are in if that's the plan.

Praying all this is part of a process to sell the club but if not it's going to get a whole lot worse in coming years I fear

he has a fair point. Ipswich fans really struggle to grasp the reality of their situation. A poor squad, an absent owner, no money and little chance of anything changing in the future. Once Mick goes they will realise he's actually doing a fantastic job in the circumstances. By then they'll be sliding into League One, though.

If there's one thing Evans has done right at Ipswich, it's appointing a good manager/backroom staff and setting up a professional boardroom structure. That's basically the difference between them and us at this moment in time.

A bit like Allardyce here I think a section of Ipswich fans have had it in for him from the word go but he's over achieved a bit so it's kept a lid on it. Now they've got the excuse to blow at him but it's just one of those cycles in football really. No matter how good you are after 2/3 years those things go full circle and it's time for something new on both sides.

[Iceman]

His dogging friends more likely

doggy style

[DE.]

A bit like Allardyce here I think a section of Ipswich fans have had it in for him from the word go but he's over achieved a bit so it's kept a lid on it. Now they've got the excuse to blow at him but it's just one of those cycles in football really. No matter how good you are after 2/3 years those things go full circle and it's time for something new on both sides.

Yeah, can't disagree there. The football is dire, no question about that, but this is a team that still has soon-to-be 34 year-old Jonathan Douglas as a key member of the midfield. It isn't easy to play good football with extremely limited players. Look at our current incumbent - what happened to the great, attacking football we were promised? What happened to the team that would make us proud again? Liam Feeney, Jason Lowe, Adam Henley, Stephen Hendrie, Hope Akpan and Jason Steele happened to it. Get in a manager who can work with limited players and bring the best out of them and we have a fighting chance of one more season in this division. Anything less and we'll be playing in the third tier next season. Long-term we're screwed either way unless Venky's depart swiftly.

[tomphil]

Yep the situation we are in calls for Big Micks type of management, we may well have only actually stayed out of harms way last season because of Lamberts style of approach to games.

We are neither good enough nor in a position to play any form of fluid attacking football.

[alcd]

Coyle simply does not know how to set up a team and his low-budget nobodies from Scotland that he trails around with him are no help.

[blueboy3333]

This has been a problem for a while now in terms of posters perceptions as to how good or bad the team actually is.

This side isn't good enough to finish mid-table in my opinion, its full of league 1 standard players and a few inexperienced loans and academy kids, not good enough to finish mid-table, not good enough to stay in this league over a season.

Once fans come to terms with that, the focus can be firmly put on making the owners lives uncomfortable, because Colyle as manager or not, this is always going to end badly, changing managers will just dampen down momentum once again in the hope the new manager can work miracles, he can't and won't.

We need to stay focused on Venkys.

#venkysout

Venkys out indeed, but it's also possible to want a new manager. They aren't mutually exclusive. We need to stay in this league. Graham, Evans, Marshall, Conway, Hoban, etc are all good players at this level, as they've proved with us and at other clubs. You could make a case for Steele, Guthrie, Stokes, Feeney and Akpan being decent at this level. Then you've got young talent like Lenihan, Byrne and Samuelsen. More than enough there not to be rooted to the foot of the league. Mick Mc would do far better with that lot, as would Warnock. As would most managers in our league.

There's no guarantee the Venksters would do one if we got relegated. Or if we got relegated twice. I would say there's more chance they'll do one if we get promoted, because then they could save face AND run off with all the money.

6 months ago you were saying Lambert was the best thing to happen to Rovers in 5 years. The manager mattered then, just like it matters now. It actually matters more now because we know of Coyle's background and connections.

New manager/New owners/Same division.

[blueboy3333]

Yeah, can't disagree there. The football is dire, no question about that, but this is a team that still has soon-to-be 34 year-old Jonathan Douglas as a key member of the midfield. It isn't easy to play good football with extremely limited players. Look at our current incumbent - what happened to the great, attacking football we were promised? What happened to the team that would make us proud again? Liam Feeney, Jason Lowe, Adam Henley, Stephen Hendrie, Hope Akpan and Jason Steele happened to it. Get in a manager who can work with limited players and bring the best out of them and we have a fighting chance of one more season in this division. Anything less and we'll be playing in the third tier next season. Long-term we're screwed either way unless Venky's depart swiftly.

McCarthy also wanted Feeney to go alongside the 34 year-old Douglas. He'd get a lot more out of him too.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Any manager would struggle under Venkys. Lambert couldn't take it and Coyle will do no better. Arguing about Coyle's merits is just a waste of time.

As it stands I don't care about the manager or the players. I've resigned myself to the reality that we're going down. The only hope is that relegation may force Venky's to finally sell up.

A new manager will change nothing. Another year in the championship will change nothing. This club will not take one step forward until they're gone.

It's heartbreaking to see the whole thing implode like this.

[DE.]

McCarthy also wanted Feeney to go alongside the 34 year-old Douglas. He'd get a lot more out of him too.

Indeed so. The difference being Mick has never promised attacking, free flowing football. He takes players like Varney and Feeney and squeezes every last drop out of their limited abilities. Coyle meanwhile is the type of manager who expects too much from these types of player and, as we've already seen, resorts to singling them out when things don't go right. He's both a coward and a chancer. The perfect manager to sum up our owners.

[Gav]

Venkys out indeed, but it's also possible to want a new manager. They aren't mutually exclusive. We need to stay in this league. Graham, Evans, Marshall, Conway, Hoban, etc are all good players at this level, as they've proved with us and at other clubs. You could make a case for Steele, Guthrie, Stokes, Feeney and Akpan being decent at this level. Then you've got young talent like Lenihan, Byrne and Samuelsen. More than enough there not to be rooted to the foot of the league. Mick Mc would do far better with that lot, as would Warnock. As would most managers in our league.

There's no guarantee the Venksters would do one if we got relegated. Or if we got relegated twice. I would say there's more chance they'll do one if we get promoted, because then they could save face AND run off with all the money.

6 months ago you were saying Lambert was the best thing to happen to Rovers in 5 years. The manager mattered then, just like it matters now. It actually matters more now because we know of Coyle's background and connections.

New manager/New owners/Same division.

Lambert was the best thing to happen to this club since those stooges arrived on the scene, that's why it mattered then and quite simply doesn't matter now.

Changing manager will not make the blindest bit of difference, we're to far down the line to recover sadly, so keeping Coyle and not deflecting attention is so important in my opinion.

Any manager would struggle under Venkys. Lambert couldn't take it and Coyle will do no better. Arguing about Coyle's merits is just a waste of time.

As it stands I don't care about the manager or the players. I've resigned myself to the reality that we're going down. The only hope is that relegation may force Venky's to finally sell up.

A new manager will change nothing. Another year in the championship will change nothing. This club will not take one step forward until they're gone.

It's heartbreaking to see the whole thing implode like this.

Absolutely, we just need the rest of the fan base to catchup.

[blueboy3333]

Lambert was the best thing to happen to this club since those stooges arrived on the scene, that's why it mattered then and quite simply doesn't matter now.

Absolutely, we just need the rest of the fan base to catchup.

That makes no sense.

[JBiz]

Jeez,

Just add up the player sales since the Rao's trapped up, then add on the revenue through the club since they trapped up.

Then take away players bought.

Sort of a GP excersize and see what the figure is.

I'm not the one suggesting it, onus for evidence is on you.

The retort would likely be; look at wages, signing on fees, agent costs, management and structure changes and number one on the debt building up reasoning - the lack of premier league money.

It wouldn't have been as bad, hadnt some moronic crook and his cronies managed to tie up 4 years of parachute payments up in around 5 transfers, 2 of them 33+ year olds on mid table premier league wages.

There is no need to buy into the betting and Venkys pocketing theories when there is so much evidence for what actually happened!

If you can show me concrete evidence or even some sort of research into why you think the raos are "pocketing" money - I will happily hold my hands up and say I was naive and wrong. Without that flesh on the bone, what's the point of even suggesting it?

[Gav]

That makes no sense.

Let me help you...

Since Lambert was appointed we've lost around £16/17m worth of talent, with Marshall to push that towards £20m possibly.

As we stand today, nobody could get this side on the current budget anywhere near where we need to be.

Managers are irrelevant, we need the owners out.

#venkysout - Think bigger picture.

[yoda]

I'm not the one suggesting it, onus for evidence is on you.

The retort would likely be; look at wages, signing on fees, agent costs, management and structure changes and number one on the debt building up reasoning - the lack of premier league money.

It wouldn't have been as bad, hadnt some moronic crook and his cronies managed to tie up 4 years of parachute payments up in around 5 transfers, 2 of them 33+ year olds on mid table premier league wages.

There is no need to buy into the betting and Venkys pocketing theories when there is so much evidence for what actually happened!

If you can show me concrete evidence or even some sort of research into why you think the raos are "pocketing" money - I will happily hold my hands up and say I was naive and wrong. Without that flesh on the bone, what's the point of even suggesting it?

£1.4 million "agency" fee for a transfer of £400k, yep sounds about right

[ABBEY]

jzz the betting rumours stemmed from rumours that were all over the internet two days before sam was potted at 33/1 and the rumours did the same script again a few days before appleton was appointed again at 33/1 .

[pedebumchin]

Interesting comments from Coyle in the LT today. Pretty much publicly stating that the owners aren't investing in the playing squad and just taking the transfer fees.

Is he trying to get the fans on board by pointing the finger at the owners? Or is he getting his excuses in early for what looks to be a losing battle against relegation...

[ABBEY]

He doing the Kean bull

[blueboy3333]

Let me help you...

Since Lambert was appointed we've lost around £16/17m worth of talent, with Marshall to push that towards £20m possibly.

As we stand today, nobody could get this side on the current budget anywhere near where we need to be.

Managers are irrelevant, we need the owners out.

#venkysout - Think bigger picture.

So now it's because they've sold players? They've always sold players. They sold Rhodes when Lambert was here, sold Rudy before he got here, all they've done is sell for 5 years. Most clubs sell players. How is that relevant to the manager all of a sudden not mattering?

Back to the original point you argued against. We do have enough to stay up IMO, we just need a different manager unless Coyle improves pretty rapidly. We also need to stay in this division. If the Venky's gave a cast iron assurance that they'd leave if we went down then it's a different scenario, but they haven't.

If you want to see the 'bigger picture' then look at Blackpool. Owners not leaving and now in Lg2, playing in front of a man and a dog.

Relegation would be a another disaster for this club, and if Coyle stays it is looking very likely.

I get the Venky's Out, everybody does (i hope) but what i don't get is that you think plodding on with a manager who can't get results is in any way beneficial to BRFC? Do you want relegation even when it comes with no guarantees of a change of ownership? When all it really guarantees is the further demise of a football club? When it possibly makes us less attrractive to a potential buyer? With bigger debts and no guarantee we'll ever get out of League 1 or 2 (think Pompey or Sheff Utd), thereby making us less attractive to any potential new manager and players? With fewer crowds, less sponsorship etc. and maybe having to sell Brockhall because we can no longer afford it? What division would new owners prefer us in, League 1 or the Championship where we are one good manager/lucky season away from all that filthy lucre in the Prem?

Saying 'Venky's Out, nothing else matters' is incredibly short-sighted.